Saturn

[Tormod]

Anyone following the Saturn mission? I think it is incredibly exciting. I try to post some updates in the news section now and then but there is so much stuff coming in.

 

Considering it's almost 20 years since Voyager passed Saturn, it's really a big moment in the exploration of our solar system. Mars is one thing - we learn new stuff about it every day - but Saturn is so alien, with the rings, and that incredible moon, Titan. It's really exciting!

 

What do you think? Is exploring the solar system a worthy cause?

[Uncle Martin]

I've been keeping up with the Cassini-Huygens mission almost as much as the Mars rovers and Beagle missions. (So sad about Beagle). The data is streaming in already. When I was in school Saturn had only nine known moons, now it is 31. Cassini may increase the count. I'm really looking forward to the probe telling us more about Titan. I think it is the only moon in the solar system with an appreciable atmosphere, and composed of much organic matter. Wouldn't it be nice if Huygens got a picture of a flock of birds on it's way down?

[Tormod]

For anyone who wants to follow the news, here is the source - NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory:

 

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm

 

One great thing about the Cassini/Huygens mission, though, is that it is a joint project where both NASA and ESA (The European Space Agency) aer working together.

 

Tormod

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Tormod

One great thing about the Cassini/Huygens mission, though, is that it is a joint project where both NASA and ESA (The European Space Agency) aer working together.

 

I agree, space exploration, among other things, should be a global effort. Am I correct in saying that the ESA is primarily responsible for the Huygens landing on Titan? And when is that scheduled to occur?(found that- January 2005)

[Tormod]

Yes. Back at the end of the 70s the plan was actually that ESA would build the orbiter while NASA would build the Titan lander. I think reality kicked in and they switched roles (probably a wise move!). There are instruments on both the oribter and lander, however, built jointly and operated by both agencies.

 

The Huygens probe will descend on Titan around January 14/15 2005 and it's a one-shot affair so if it doesn't work then that's it. Remember what happened to Beagle 2, the Mars lander...but the Huygens project is completely different and should have a much higher probability for success.

[Freethinker]

I am on several NASA and Space mailing lists and get e-mails daily with updates. A few days ago I got a NASA link to a page that had, to me, the most mind boggling thing yet. It was a "recording" or the "sounds" of particles hitting the Cassini high gain anntenna. Imagine SOUND from that far away. To actually HEAR something from Cassini as it would basically sound if you were inside Cassini.

 

Ya it was just little clicks, but the consider the source!

 

Saturn Hailstorm

 

An instrument onboard Cassini recorded a flurry of tiny particles pelting the spacecraft as it crossed Saturn's dusty ring plane.

 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/09jul_hailstorm.htm?list890521

[Tormod]

That is pretty cool! Thanks for the link.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tormod

Remember what happened to Beagle 2,

Ya, British, like the Jaguar! Great idea, but the cars were known for horrible reliability problems.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Originally posted by: Tormod

 

Remember what happened to Beagle 2,

 

Ya, British, like the Jaguar! Great idea, but the cars were known for horrible reliability problems.

 

Well that ought to offend several of our members. I think Blame is from the UK.

[Tormod]

I don't know about the Jag (although I own three but I just keep them in my garage) but the British DID get the blame for Beagle 2.

 

Tormod

[TeleMad]

FreeThinker: A few days ago I got a NASA link to a page that had, to me, the most mind boggling thing yet. It was a "recording" or the "sounds" of particles hitting the Cassini high gain anntenna. Imagine SOUND from that far away. To actually HEAR something from Cassini as it would basically sound if you were inside Cassini.

 

Ya it was just little clicks, but the consider the source!

 

And if you tune your TV to one of those non-broadcast "snow" channels you are picking up photons from the Big Bang!

 

(Not all of the "snow" is the result of the CMBR, but some of it is).

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: TeleMad

FreeThinker: A few days ago I got a NASA link to a page that had, to me, the most mind boggling thing yet. It was a "recording" or the "sounds" of particles hitting the Cassini high gain anntenna. Imagine SOUND from that far away. To actually HEAR something from Cassini as it would basically sound if you were inside Cassini.

 

Ya it was just little clicks, but the consider the source!

And if you tune your TV to one of those non-broadcast "snow" channels you are picking up photons from the Big Bang!

Not even close to the same thing. There is a big difference between a device on earth that can pick up the BB's background radiation and hearing "sounds" from a man made object that is picking them up based on being hit by particles while floating around another planet!

[Uncle Martin]

What you are "hearing" from Cassini is computer generated representational sounds. There are no actual sounds eminating from the craft.

[BlameTheEx]

Uncle.

 

Er, yes, I am British.

 

Beagle 2 wasn't our finest hour. Given the budget it was always going to be a long shot. Still the budget was a valid expression of our interest balanced against our resources. The American habit of throwing billions into space without apparently consulting accountants or even psychiatrists continues to amaze the rest of the world. We love to see the results, but we are very very glad we ain't paying for them.

 

I do hope the Titan lander works out better, but I fear it's going to be a disappointment regardless after the Mars Rovers. The Titan Lander has to be thought of as a test shot. It doesn't have the capabilities for much more than finding out what is needed to land a proper probe, and that is if all goes well.

 

Much as I am waiting impatiently for the results of this venture, I deeply wished that NASA had gone more for development of infrastructure rather than quick results. All should have waited on development of ion drives, lighter solar colectors for power (OK. Some favour nuclear power), robotic assembly of probes in orbit, and the replacement of the shuttle with something more commercially viable. Only then can a methodical exploration of the Solar System be financially feasible, even with an american budget.

 

Regardless, my thanks for your consideration for my feelings. I was beginning to wonder if anybody on this site worried about such things.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

What you are "hearing" from Cassini is computer generated representational sounds. There are no actual sounds eminating from the craft.

 

True. To an extent. It is not a microphone inside the thing picking up mechanical vibrations. But then a microphone is basically just a device that converts mechanical interactions into representitive voltages. And what we are "hearing" from Cassini was an electrical output which represented a physical interaction between dust particles and Cassini.

 

Sound can be detected by descriminating pressure gradiants modulating plasma. And from the site I listed:

 

"Each time a dust particle hit Cassini, the impact produced a puff of plasma--a tiny cloud of ionized gas."

 

Thus each particle strike produced an electrical signal.

 

I think we are splitting hairs to say we are not HEARING it.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: BlameTheEx

Much as I am waiting impatiently for the results of this venture, I deeply wished that NASA had gone more for development of infrastructure rather than quick results. All should have waited on development of ion drives, lighter solar colectors for power (OK. Some favour nuclear power), robotic assembly of probes in orbit, and the replacement of the shuttle with something more commercially viable. Only then can a methodical exploration of the Solar System be financially feasible, even with an american budget.

 

You have to grasp the mentality of the current politicos in power in the US. There is not any concept of long term developmental research or planning. All NASA serves for right now is good Press for an Admin that should not be getting ANY good press right now.

 

Rememer, this Pres and his close associates have stated that they don't expect to be around very long, the Apocalypse and all.. Why should they care about long term goal planning for NASA any more that they care about the Environment? They figure we won;t be here long enough for it to matter.

 

VERY DANGEROUS THINKING!

 

But that is what we have right now!

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

When I was in school Saturn had only nine known moons, now it is 31. Cassini may increase the count.

Well,....this is just an update that proves my earlier prediction,...Cassini has discovered two new moons. They are very small, but moons none the less. We are now at 33 and counting.