Miracles?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

How can you not see the importance of truth over falsehood?

She's a Christian Unc! Acknowledging TRUTH and requiring FACTS runs counter to what is needed to STAY a believer. Irishhas admnitted this many times They are well trained in ignoring such subtleties as FACTS and established termonolgy. Irish has said that no matter how many facts we provide, no matter how many fallacies we expose, she will not allow that to affect her beliefs.

How can you not see the importance of truth over falsehood?

It isn't a lack of ability to SEE it, it is a lack of DESIRE to adopt it.

I certainly wouldn't want people to let me post wrong assertions and not correct me,..as if that could ever happen. I not only expect to be corrected, I welcome it.

You are also a Freethinker. We thrive on new information and ability to either further confirm or to outright reject any issue we hold. FACTS are held above personal desires. Proof, not dogma, rules supreme.

If the "believers" in this forum expect some sort of preferential treatment, they will be VERY disappointed.

And suprised when they are confronted with demands to actually prove their claims for the first time in their sheltered lives.

[IrishEyes]

Irish said: Incorrect information is not always the same as a lie. The leaps of logic that happen around here astound me!

 

FreeT replies: So a person can intentionally provide information they KNOW is wrong and it is NOT a lie? YEs you ARE a Christian aren't you!

 

However I do make one differentiation. While "Incorrect information" is ALWAYS a "LIE". Not everyone that repeats the lie is a "LIAR". If the person is ignorant of the truth and just repeating what they have heard, they may not be "lying" as it is not INTENTIONAL.

 

WOW! Way to totally miss the point, yet again! Your best defense and worst insult is to call me a Christian? Well, I've been called much worse, so I guess that's not so bad. Incorrect information is sometimes just that - incorrect information. Not everyone is as perfect as you seem to think you are. Some people make mistakes, but are not intentionally telling a lie when they do.

[IrishEyes]

then learn to identify the reference for a statement before claiming someone else is wrong.

 

whaa? Please clarify this, as I have no idea what you mean. Thanks!

[IrishEyes]

Yes I think we can all agree to this. But to claim that distorting Evolution by pretending it has something to do with abiogenesis in order to try and refute Evolution is NOT "Incorrect information", it is a LIE. One that is promoted heavily by Christian Creationists of which MANY KNOW it is a LIE and they LIE on purpose because they can convince their sheep that way.

 

Is that honestly what you think was done in this particular situation? You think that this person made an off-handed reference to life being a miracle to try to refute evolution by intentionally misleading the masses into believing that abiogenesis and darwinian evolution are the same, right here on this site? Well aren't we all lucky that you and Unc put a stop to such tomfoolery before the earth stopped rotating!

[IrishEyes]

We have. Then that thread goes away and someone comes on to another thread and posts the same LIES over again. So we must waste everyone's time exposing the latest (potential) liar.

 

Really? Where is it? I'd love to read that thread sometime. I can't believe I missed it!!

[IrishEyes]

If anyone gets frustrated with this, it is people like Unc and I that have to spend so much time correcting LIES and FALLACIES in order to occasionally have a reasoned discussion.

 

I do find it rather amusing and very disturbing that you and Unc seem to have elevated yourselves to the exalted position of the last bastion of truth in this Forum though. Maybe you should instruct Tormod to buy you both blue tights and waist belts so you can save the rest of the world from the awful scourge of Christianity before we all kill each other! You could be Super-Christian-Killer, and his trusty sidekick Religion-Rant!!! Maybe Galaxy could design your outfits and Yvonne and i could sew them. We could even ask Tinny to do some theme music for you!

[Uncle Martin]

Ooooh,... you would take that back if you could see me in a pair of tights. Kind of gives the word "tights" a whole new meaning.

[Uncle Martin]

OK,..What this argument boils down to is,... does accurate terminology matter? Anyone care to say that it doesn't? Heres your chance. I assert that it does matter and ask that someone prove me wrong. It is a foolish question isn't it?. Let's see a real miracle and stop kicking this dead horse.

 

Back to miracles please!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

OK,..What this argument boils down to is,... does accurate terminology matter? Anyone care to say that it doesn't? Heres your chance. I assert that it does matter and ask that someone prove me wrong. It is a foolish question isn't it?. Let's see a real miracle and stop kicking this dead horse.

 

Back to miracles please!

 

Yes, rather than continuing to discuss if we should allow "dumbing down" of this site by accepting whatever terminology anyone wants to randomly assign to what ever event, let's get back to an intellectually honest discussion about it.

 

OK. one aside, RE tights, I prefer pants that aren't designed like cheap hotels.

 

Now back to "Miracle", if we are going to accept that things of special interest to some are "Miracles", then yes they do happen. But then being a "Miracle" means nothing out of the ordinary. In fact there would be over 75,000,000 miracles each year in births alone. Kind of makes birth being a miracle some what less than impressive. Add to this that 4,125,000 will result in death in the 1st year and it makes it even less of a miraculous thing.

 

So does ANYBODY have an ACTUAL miracle? One that violates the laws of nature? Or will we find out that it just more specious reasoning and empty claims?

[sage]

Well it seems none of us has bee able to come up with a convincing miracle........... its doubtful whether we will ............. but of course it has been fruitful for me.......unc , freet

irieye all contributing to change a few ideas of mine............. well for me miracle is me myself coping with a heretic life and still finding time to jion u people............. as for nature law violation why dont we try on ghost for a while , after all ghosts have not yet been proven doesnt exist ............ the lochness monster .the blair witch or the chillingham castle ........... all miracles have been assciated here with life or death why so? doesnt anyone have something else as a mircle ........... let time tell

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: sage

as for nature law violation why dont we try on ghost for a while , after all ghosts have not yet been proven doesnt exist ............ the lochness monster .the blair witch or the chillingham castle

Ya along with the tooth fairy and Easter Bunny.

 

Argumentum ad ignorantiam

 

Argumentum ad ignorantiam means "argument from ignorance." The fallacy occurs when it's argued that something must be true, simply because it hasn't been proved false. In scientific investigation, if it is known that an event would produce certain evidence of its having occurred, the absence of such evidence can validly be used to infer that the event didn't occur.

 

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" Carl Sagan.

 

There has never been a single bit of valid verifyable evidence to support any of your examples. This in view of the $1,000,000.00 challenge by the Randi Foundation for the first person to prove ANY extra-natural event (miracle, PSI, ESP, UFO, ...)

 

"At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The prize is in the form of negotiable bonds held in a special investment account. "

 

http://www.randi.org/research/