Do You use Mac Apple ?

[Tormod]

Macs do tend to cost more, however they have been working on that, not sure how close they are at this point.

 

Sadly, not even close. The basic Macs are cheap, but so low specced that they can't be used for anything but music playback, ipod syncing and basic office work.

 

If you want a real powerhouse, a Mac will set you back at least 2-3 times the price of a PC equivalent.

 

I say this with regret because I'd love to buy a Mac laptop for my music production but there's absolutely no way I can afford it. My G4 powerbook can run some of my audio software but while stable (I agree, orb) it is too sluggish for practical use.

 

I disagree with those who do not like the Macintels - I look forward to getting my G4 replaced this summer (if my boss keeps his promise). :Glasses:

[Lord Illidan]

I might consider switching to a Mac, but only if I can dualboot it with Linux on an x86 processor.

I just feel more comfortable with Linux at the moment, and given this latest surge towards intel processors, I am confused. Also, the price of the hardware is a disadvantage for me.

[C1ay]

the reason that Photoshop has not realeased the newest versions of Photoshop for Linux is because they think that they have no market share in it, but Photoshop 5 did get released in Linux (kinda old now), gimp by the way works pretty well

I think the GIMP works real well for the money compared to Photoshop....:hyper:

[cwes99_03]

dude, :hyper: OS X is gehind the scenes is BSD, so you are lying...

 

and Unix(for the sake of argument i will use it synonymously with Linux, different inside, similar on the outside) is not built solely for server and programming crowd, ........ gimp by the way works pretty well, especially if you know python and are willing to spend a litle while writing your own filters and plugins for it, Ink Scape for vector. There is many times better software in Linux for music, making, sequencing, mixing, producing, encoding, now with lilypad,......... just that people are lazy to invest their time in setting up and using Linux, ......... Oh yeah video, that too, there is a lack of tools for easy film manipulation, but if you recall, Shrek and Shrek 2 were both created and rendered on thousands of linux boxes, The Last Samurai, did not have a single arrow on the set, all the thousands of arrows were drawn in with Gimp.... so to that extent, unix oses are way better for both imaging and sound and video....

 

 

 

Ok, first you start off by saying I'm wrong in that Unix/Linux OS is not just made for those programming and server types. Then you say, oh yah if you are willing to give up your time

writing your own filters and plugins for it

. Thanks for making my point for me. Unless you understand all the coding commands and how to write software and filters and plugins and make drivers and all that stuff, you simply cannot use Linux. I haven't taken the time to do so, because while an intellectual I am always interested in learning new things, I'm not willing to give up the next 6 months to 2 years of my life learning it all. That's why Microsoft makes the bigs bucks, I've got to much other stuff to do.

 

The other point made about availability of programs is dead wrong. There are thousands of programs out there in the freeshare world and the low cost world written to work on PCs running Windows. Slightly less are out there for Mac, though the ones that are there are quite high quality. And coming at the bottom of the list, except for all those open source programs that allow you to modify them to the extreme to get what you want done, there are very few actual applications out there for "plug and play" use on a Linux box. If there were more, you'd see them on the shelves and you'd see hundreds of thousands of users going over to Linux.

 

Games for the most part are also only available on Windows/PC. So if you want a platform that allows you to use a bunch of applications, and allow you to surf the web and engage in some serious gaming, then PC is your only fully fledged answer.

 

Now I'm no expert on all the thousands of versions of Linux out there and some of them certainly have capabilities to emulate windows I'm sure, but that does not make them equals to the Windows world.

[Lord Illidan]

Games for the most part are also only available on Windows/PC. So if you want a platform that allows you to use a bunch of applications, and allow you to surf the web and engage in some serious gaming, then PC is your only fully fledged answer.

 

You can game seriously on Linux. Doom 3, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Quake 4, Robin Hood - Legend of Sherwood, these are all good games. What about nexuiz and Battle for Wesnoth. There are more games for Windows, but that is not Linux fault.

 

I believe that for casual use, Linux is the best answer. Cheaper than Windows, it just has a slightly steeper learning curve.

[alexander]

just has a slightly steeper learning curve

wrong you are, that is depending on what you want to learn, Linux is many times easier to learn now to use, because the OS itself actually makes sense, come on can anyone here describe to me the puprose of registry, and working environments such as KDE and Gnome are much more intuitive then mictosoft explorer, so linux, as long as you are willing to learn is much easier to learn then windows, and, unlike windows, there is a lot more documentation available for Linux, the fact that people dont like to use Linux because they dont want to learn is a topic of another discussion...

 

What about nexuiz and Battle for Wesnoth.

do you have a decent system? haven't you ever heard of cedega? now you try to play nix game in windows...

[Tormod]

Only problem with Cedega is the monthly fee IMHO.

 

But hey, this is an Apple Mac thread. :hyper:

[capnrefsmmat]

Ok, first you start off by saying I'm wrong in that Unix/Linux OS is not just made for those programming and server types. Then you say, oh yah if you are willing to give up your time . Thanks for making my point for me. Unless you understand all the coding commands and how to write software and filters and plugins and make drivers and all that stuff, you simply cannot use Linux. I haven't taken the time to do so, because while an intellectual I am always interested in learning new things, I'm not willing to give up the next 6 months to 2 years of my life learning it all. That's why Microsoft makes the bigs bucks, I've got to much other stuff to do.

Most Linux users don't write their own software or filters. Simply because some other kind person took the time to do it themselves, and then put it in the package repositories for everyone to use. That's the joy of free software--someone's probably already made something to do that task.

 

And dare I note that Linux creators can't make big bucks like Microsoft, because Linux is free.

 

The other point made about availability of programs is dead wrong. There are thousands of programs out there in the freeshare world and the low cost world written to work on PCs running Windows. Slightly less are out there for Mac, though the ones that are there are quite high quality. And coming at the bottom of the list, except for all those open source programs that allow you to modify them to the extreme to get what you want done, there are very few actual applications out there for "plug and play" use on a Linux box. If there were more, you'd see them on the shelves and you'd see hundreds of thousands of users going over to Linux.

No. You don't see them on shelves because they're all free. Ubuntu, for example, has more than 16,000 free software packages available in its repositories.

See also: Firefox, OpenOffice, The GIMP, etc.

 

Games for the most part are also only available on Windows/PC. So if you want a platform that allows you to use a bunch of applications, and allow you to surf the web and engage in some serious gaming, then PC is your only fully fledged answer.

WINE.

 

Now I'm no expert on all the thousands of versions of Linux out there and some of them certainly have capabilities to emulate windows I'm sure, but that does not make them equals to the Windows world.

WINE. (Which, ironically, stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator).

 

 

FUD is fun!

[C1ay]

Unless you understand all the coding commands and how to write software and filters and plugins and make drivers and all that stuff, you simply cannot use Linux.

Not true. You can use Linux without being a coder just like Windows. Linux distributions come ready to use. Now, if you can code then you can get more out of it but, that is true with Wndows as well.

[alexander]

Only problem with Cedega is the monthly fee IMHO.

compared to the prices of games as well as the price of windows and its apps and frustrations, cedega is quite a bargain at that...

 

now you will have to excuse my tone, the way he started is the way i'll answer...

 

Ok, first you start off by saying I'm wrong in that Unix/Linux OS is not just made for those programming and server types. Then you say, oh yah if you are willing to give up your time

that is correct, it is NOT made just for programmers, however there are benefits of knowing programming languages in the Linux world, and linux is definitely a much better environment for programmers then windows, so i do not see where i am mistaken in this matter or misspoken about it.

 

Quote:

writing your own filters and plugins for it

Thanks for making my point for me. Unless you understand all the coding commands and how to write software and filters and plugins and make drivers and all that stuff, you simply cannot use Linux.

I am not making any point for you. Programming is a plus on any platform, right Buffy?

You obviously dont have any idea what Gimp is, dude research your stuff before you blurr out something aimed at a piece of software. There are hundreds of plugins and filters available for it that were developed by the community. you have to know how to click the mouse in order to download and use them too...

You do not need to know what a driver is to run Linux, simply because you have heard that you can add stuff and make your own kernel patches does not mean that you have to write a driver for every device you use in order to interface it, unless you want the adrenalin rush of doing it, in which case, please, go ahead.

 

I haven't taken the time to do so, because while an intellectual I am always interested in learning new things, I'm not willing to give up the next 6 months to 2 years of my life learning it all

Perhaps not such an intellectual after all, i set my manager (in his 40s) up with an ubuntu cd and he was up and running in less then an hour, including the time it took him to install it... He never even used linux before, he is thinking already about making a MythTV box, and that's a guy who does not even know what "ls" does...

 

That's why Microsoft makes the bigs bucks, I've got to much other stuff to do.

Microsoft makes big bucks because intellectuals like yourself buy into their marketting strategy and fail the most basic of things to do when you are about to buy any product, and that is research, because the beloved Windows has more problems in one year then all of the Nix products have had combined together in their life times...

 

The other point made about availability of programs is dead wrong. There are thousands of programs out there in the freeshare world and the low cost world written to work on PCs running Windows.

agreed, worms, viruses and spyware have been very rapidly developed in the past few years, yup, lots of low cost programs out there for windows in that perspective...

 

Slightly less are out there for Mac, though the ones that are there are quite high quality. And coming at the bottom of the list, except for all those open source programs that allow you to modify them to the extreme to get what you want done, there are very few actual applications out there for "plug and play" use on a Linux box.

Once again this is coming from a person who does not do any research... there is more install and use software available for linux then you can probably imagine, and a lot of it is high quality, and most is very stable, my portage tree contains over 8000 packages deemed stable. Package usually = multiple programs.

 

If there were more, you'd see them on the shelves and you'd see hundreds of thousands of users going over to Linux.

For the intelligent ones:

Linux is the fastest growing operating system in the world

 

It would be very hard to put linux software on the shelves because it is usualy rapidly updated, and it would actually cost to burn and package software, and the final price of such a package would be like 2 bucks, so it is more reasonable to distribute the soft online. Also binaries differ from processor architecture to processor architecture, but yes you can make generic packages and many companies distribute their software in such packages (from bin distros), but for a tradeoff the binary is less optimized for the system and yet many times more optimized then any software package you can get in windows, and the soft is also updated quite oftenly. Also there are such things as Package Managers (you have no idea what they are in the windows world, perhaps mac people know fink) which provide a way of going into a virtual "store" that has thousands of packages, just that they are available to download and install and install updates and stuff when they come out, instead of using a crude media such as a cd that can only contain the current version and charge for the cd, box and pretty graphics on the box.

 

Games for the most part are also only available on Windows/PC. So if you want a platform that allows you to use a bunch of applications, and allow you to surf the web and engage in some serious gaming, then PC is your only fully fledged answer.

lol, i like the "use a bunch of applications" part, quite out of place here, there is a bunch of applications for Irix, even AIX, QNX, BeOS hell, Copland OS, which never got released for the public, had a bunch of applications (if you have a system that runs Copland OS since like 1991 and you cant do anything as it's been sitting there with a blank screen for years and years, you may have a position), perhaps if you research what an OS is and realize what you mean by an OS is a lot more then just OS....

 

Now I'm no expert on all the thousands of versions of Linux out there and some of them certainly have capabilities to emulate windows I'm sure, but that does not make them equals to the Windows world.

There are only a few versions that get used though, and there havent been thousands of versions of linux released, even if you take in the release and sub relase versions, but lets see which ones are used:

 

2.0.* (less then .1 percent prolly)

2.2.* (maybe approaching .1%)

2.4.* (a few percent)

2.6.* (majority, around 95%)

 

all versions after minor are irrelevant for the point, so really there are only 4 stable versions out there... for minor versions you'd have to check kernel.org

 

oh and cedega is wine that is stripped and optimized for games, and wine is not an emulator, but allows you to run windows binaries in linux, and once again research would have halped a little here... linux distros are not versions and while they may have a similar working environment like STX they (as in OS) can not emulate windows in a way that you present it....

[Buffy]

My, my, my...what tangled webs we weave...

 

A note on the G5 vs P4 on Mac: P4 is strategic for Apple, and the G5 is going to go away. If you've got a G4 now, buy a G5 before they go away: you'll be able to use your existing software licenses for longer. If you're switching from windows, get a P4: you won't be forced to buy new versions of all your software when your G5 dies. My mom just ran out and bought a G5 for this reason alone, because she owns a lot of very high-end software and the vendors are *all* forcing people to buy *full* new licenses for the compiled-for-P4 releases:they may be forced to back down later, but you never know...

 

Me father he was Orange and me mother she was Green, * :hyper:

Buffy

 

* A brownie point for identifying this ancient pop-culture reference...

[Tormod]

Just to chime in on behalf of Linux: I may be a power user but I was able to switch from Win XP to Kubuntu Linux in a matter of hours. It comes with a huge amount of software.

 

Yes, some command line hacking is inevitable, but Kubuntu has a great support forum (they have a forum called "help the new guy") and so far I have managed to do everything I need on it. My wife, who is absolutely not programming savvy at all, uses OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird and a digital photo program which I forgot the name of. We download all this software via Kubuntu's Adept program which is a GUI apt client and installs all the software you can think of.

 

So I warmly recommend trying out Kubuntu Linux for anyone interested in getting into the world of Linux - it's as simple as it gets, and it shows how powerful open source software really is.

 

Of course, any distro would do but since Kubuntu is squarely aimed at Linux noobs like myself I chose it and it works as promised.

 

Now, *since this is an Apple Mac thread*, I'd like to point out that a lot of folks also run Linux on that platform. It might seem strange (considering OSX is UNIX based) but the point is of course that you get access to all the Linux software. But even in OSX "mode" you can run KDE etc using OpenDarwin. :hyper:

[Racoon]

Thats really great Data guys!! :hyper: :hyper:

 

I am more than overwhelmed by all the great info!

Danke!

 

I see this could spill over to Linux too :phones:

[Lord Illidan]

Thats really great Data guys!! :hihi: :hihi:

 

I am more than overwhelmed by all the great info!

Danke!

 

I see this could spill over to Linux too :)

 

I think there should be a linux thread..

 

wrong you are, that is depending on what you want to learn, Linux is many times easier to learn now to use, because the OS itself actually makes sense, come on can anyone here describe to me the puprose of registry, and working environments such as KDE and Gnome are much more intuitive then mictosoft explorer, so linux, as long as you are willing to learn is much easier to learn then windows, and, unlike windows, there is a lot more documentation available for Linux, the fact that people dont like to use Linux because they dont want to learn is a topic of another discussion...

 

Maybe I should say that there is more to learn in Linux because there are multiple ways of doing the same thing? I went ahead with Linux because I was willing to learn new things.

 

About the documentation. Man pages are really helpful, but sometimes, they are indecipherable. Forums are cool, but there are forums for Windows too, http://www.winforums.org being an example.

 

What about nexuiz and Battle for Wesnoth.

do you have a decent system? haven't you ever heard of cedega? now you try to play nix game in windows...

 

I just chose 2 of the most popular open source games which don't cost a penny. I have a good system, and I have heard of cedega, of course, but I don't have the money to pay for it. (Creditcard - property of dad - doesn't want me to play games)

Also, I think it is a half baked solution. Games should be ported, not made to run with the windows APIs. As Cedega/WINE become more popular, there will be less incentive to develop linux ports.

 

BTW : I apologise for setting thread way off course.

[alexander]

I think there should be a linux thread..

there are multiple linux threads in the CS section, where i warmly welcome any OS discussion, as long as it is based on facts....

Maybe I should say that there is more to learn in Linux because there are multiple ways of doing the same thing? I went ahead with Linux because I was willing to learn new things.

well, there is more to linux period, there are many things in linux that people in windows have no concept of and therefore do not even perceive existance of. (ex: piping, forking processes, backgrounding and foregrounding, power to parse/search (grep), easily scriptable command line interface (command line interface being things that windows people have very little to no concept of, yet it can be many times more powerful (if used right) then any gui), lets see, oh config files for everything... etc)

Forums are cool, but there are forums for Windows too

cant compare though, there are many times more forums for linux, also there are wikis, tutorials and mailing lists all aimed to help people in distress, if the documentation fails to do so.

As Cedega/WINE become more popular, there will be less incentive to develop linux ports.

on the contrary my friend, first of all it is not the people that develop ports, it is the company that makes a game that is in charge of doing that, and if they dont have a feel that they have a market share in Linux, they will not develop a port for it, however the game can be played on cedega, but cedega takes away from your system's performance in real life, if that game actually ran on linux, but, more stable platform, improved security, less services, lighter working environment, so in the end: more people will have the incentive to switch to linux and not be held back by games they play in windows, creating a bigger linux gaming community, creating a larger market share, pushing companies to port their games to linux to make them perform at 100%...

 

P.S. Cedega packages are commonly thrown into torrents, cuz so many people want to run cedega but just can pay for it... probably not the newest version, but a few versions back, should still work for 95% of supported games...

 

oh and i support cedega, and monthly fee is just laughable to pay some programmers help gamers to convert to linux...

[Tormod]

oh and i support cedega, and monthly fee is just laughable to pay some programmers help gamers to convert to linux...

 

Straying off topic here but the $5 per month converts into $60/year which is more than a year of Xbox Live! costs me (which I felt was too much).

[Lord Illidan]

I know the money isn't that much. 5 dollars a month is quite cheap. But how do I convince my father to shell out 5 dollars a month to let his son play games?