The Creator

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: wisdumn

once more before i go-    the light bulb didn't make itself, the telephone didn't just appear, and Beethoven's first 4 symphonies didn't just Evolve into the fifth symphony. all of these things had imagination and creators behind them. SO-  if people want to make up complex theories and formulas to disprove what is very common sense then we'll just wait for the light bulb in your brain to eventually evolve and eventually(hopefully)come on. now time for eating and off to the daily grind(i love work-NOT!)PEACE OUT! -wisdumn

You are a very confused young man. You keep posting the standard creationist teachings,....expecting us to be impressed. Do you not understand that this nonsense has been seen by virtually everyone, time after time? Have you ever tried to actually think for yourself, rather than simply accept what you were told? Do you see that there is a HUGE difference between a watch assembling itself on the beach by accident and a biological entity evolving over the course of millions of years? Can you conceive of that time frame? Can you conceive of an unanswerable question? A truly intelligent consciousness will not make up answers to meet their expectations, they will acknowledge that they do not know. There is no shame in not knowing, it is unexcusable to pretend to know!!!

[Uncle Martin]

I am God. I am the creator. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: galaxy

However,I think I made my point clear and I am really not interested in a everlasting argument about who has the correct answer.

SURELY YOU JEST? Do you mean to say that whether or not you are correct is not important? Are you really so brainwashed as to believe your teachings so unquestionably that you don't even care if it is wrong? How can it be possible that blind faith, however wrong it is,... could be more important than the truth? Ever contemplated reality? Duh!!! Of course not.

 

I had thought that we could possibly have an intelligent discussion that would better both of our personal philosophies, I think now that I was terribly wrong. My mistake, never mind.

[galaxy]

No uncle Martin, I'm still correct, and you of course will continue to think you are. Can you prove that God doesn't exist? I can obviously see that this discussion is not going anywhere so like I said before I am going to do the most "rational" thing and follow the advice of the OWNER OF THIS SITE.

[galaxy]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

 

 

In the end we will likely agree that we disagree, but I look forward to the experience..

 

What you call experience (to me argument) is senseless and I am getting tired of it. Since you even admit that we will still disagree at the end, and I am going to come to an END. And I can respect your PERSONAL believes, most likely you won't respect mine, but anyhow this back and forth is getting kind of lame. If you have any info about Einstein and how his world views changed after his believed in a creator, I would be very interested in hearing that...until then, Ciau.

[Uncle Martin]

Galaxy,

You have completely missed the point. Call it an argument, discussion, or debate,... the point is that , as you have agreed, one of us must be right, the other wrong. It is in truly bad form to leave in the middle. Surely you are more confident with your position, and have more integrity than that? I warned you how long winded these discussions can be when you first posted it, so you have no valid excuse for not finishing that which YOU have started.

 

You have turned things around, calling me closed minded. I am willing to change my personal philosophy/worldview based on new information. I welcome a more accurate view of reality. YOU,...on the other hand,...tell us that you will believe no matter what we tell you, no matter how valid our assertions. YOU are the closed minded portion of this debate.

 

You also use a popular tactic of shifting the burden of proof. Asking me to prove a negative (nonexistence of god) is the equivalent of me asking you to prove that the Easter bunny isn't real. YOU can't do it, neither can I!!! Prove that I am not God,...there is more substantial and objective evidence to support me being god than there is for your god being real.

 

I think your reasons for backing out of this discussion is not because you are "tired" of arguing,... it is because you are afraid of finding that you have based your reality on a fallacy. The crutch that you have used your whole life is crumbling beneath you as you read how critically thinking, logical, reasonable people base their reality.

 

Not to worry,..... reality has coexisted with your fantasy the whole time,...you just refused to see it. Let go of the myth and join us in the real universe. You will be very surprised how little, if anything, your fantasy was actually doing for you.

 

Welcome to the 21st century.

[wisdumn]

yes uncle martin, because you have grey hairs, that makes me a confused young man to you. and how many people on here disagree with me? i've basically seen maybe mostly FT doing (MAJORITY) of the posting for your team since you 2 agree most often. so i've seen mostly me,galaxy,and irish as posting the Creator concept. so that basically leaves you and FT holding the bag of going all the way back to the concept of the BB and it JUST HAPPENING.

AT LEAST: with all of the things i have said about the BB or before it, i have given plenty of logical evidence that while it may have been a part of things, it is more probable to thing that an intelligent, scientific,imaginative,and artistic force made it because while things may bang on earth or in space, and while there was definitely something before the BB, where does the concept of animals, humans, bugs, trees, stars, planets,---humans needing brains to think instead of their_---, many planets,solar systems, and how about the talents that we as humans posess far and superior to anything else on this planet as far as the things our minds can process, we can make art, music,movies and many other things- so if we can conceive something greater than an animal---- THEN----SOMETHING ----"insert your word for creator here, maybe inventor" - Canand Did think of something bigger than us and make us to have the understanding to be able to CREATE all of the wonderful things humans have conceived-(vision) and brought forth -(creation). simple yet, you must need afreeT formula here so howabout:

 

creator© + (maybe the BB or HOWEVER the creator chooses-X) = life and all of it's mystery(Y)

once again: © + (X) = (Y) --- why? - because ifALL things were possible,nothing would be

certain©reator

[Uncle Martin]

No teams here wisdumn, this is a free for all.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: wisdumn

my personal idea of The Creator is completely based on the Bible. the point though was to move back to there just being "A" creator instead of arguing Bible verses the whole time. i did not contradict myself,

Ah, this seems to be very confusing for you, Let's see if I can help you understand your own posts.

my personal idea of The Creator is <u>completely</u> based on the Bible

contradicts

the point though was to move back to there just being "A" creator instead of arguing Bible verses the whole time

Either you accept thge biblical creation or you do not. To say that

my personal idea of The Creator is <u>completely</u> based on the Bible

and then reject the specifcally defined creation process in the bible is absurd.

i was making a generalized point as to there being a creator

WRONG, what you have stated over and over is:

my personal idea of The Creator is completely based on the Bible

So which is it? Either

 

1) "my personal idea of The Creator is <u>completely</u> based on the Bible"

 

or

 

2) "my personal idea of The Creator is NOT <u>completely</u> based on the Bible"

 

Because it is not being intellectually honest to claim

my personal idea of The Creator is <u>completely</u> based on the Bible

and then want to change your claim every time it is shown just how ignorant the claim is.

 

So before we go any further,

1) "my personal idea of The Creator is <u>completely</u> based on the Bible"

 

or

 

2) "my personal idea of The Creator is NOT <u>completely</u> based on the Bible"

 

And if 2, delineate ANY differences. We don't have time to waste with intellectual dishonesty by wanting to change claims constantly.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

I am God. I am the creator. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

 

NO! You are WRONG! Here are my Two Commandments

 

1) I am thy GOD!

 

2) Be nice to babies

 

Since we all agree that being nice to babies is a good thing, it is obvious that my TWO Commandments are correct!

 

And since *I* AM GOD, the 1st one is also obviously correct. Or I would not have stated it! Plus I have brought myself to life in this human form to further prove I am GOD! Thus you are hearing this spoken from GOD himself! What more proof do you need than for ME, GOD himself to say I am GOD?

 

To further resolve the issue, please provide us with a list of anyone that agrees with you so we may kill the infidels.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: galaxy

No uncle Martin, I'm still correct, and you of course will continue to think you are. Can you prove that God doesn't exist? I can obviously see that this discussion is not going anywhere so like I said before I am going to do the most "rational" thing

"rational"?

 

There is NOTHING RATIONAL about claiming

I'm still correct

when you are unable to supply even the first "rational" bit of support for your claims.

 

And further, it is IRrational to claim:

no matter how hard many of you try I will continue to believe in Christ.

It is also intellectually dishonest to approach a discussion from that direction.

 

All you have done so far is make IRrational claims and ignored every attempt to get you to use an intellectually honest and open discussion process. We really have no use for mindless parroting of superstitious platitudes here. If you are not willing to actually use support for your claims, if you are unwilling to answer direct questions with ACTUAL answers, you are wasting your time and ours. You fool no one but yourself by thinking that your stance, which you can't supply ANY valid support for, IS valid.

 

However should you actually find some PROOF to support your ramblings, we would be happy to discuss them.

[Freethinker]

IT is also a perfect example of just how far a Christian will LIE in order to cover their absurd and harmful superstition, to go back and edit out all previous posts so you don't have to stand behind them.

 

But I don't blame you for being embarrased by those earlier posts. Such utter nonsense! I'd want to pretend I did not say what I did if I was you, either!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: galaxy

If you have any info about Einstein and how his world views changed after his believed in a creator, I would be very interested in hearing that...until then, Ciau.

Once more she uses the "lie and lie and lie and maybe someone will fall for it", approach. You ahve repeated this over and over AS IF Einstien was as stupid as to believe in a creator. As if you repeating it makes it so. Even though I PROVED that Eistein called people that helds such beliefs weak minded egotists.

 

From the VERY FIRST PAGE of this thread

 

http://www.hypography.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=23&threadid=615&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

 

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." -- from _Albert Einstein: The Human Side_, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann, eds., Princeton University Press.

 

and:

 

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one... Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." Albert Einstein

 

And there are plenty more of those.

 

But then you have specifically stated that TRUTH and REALITY, no matter how often posted, is of no interest to you. You will continue to believe your lies no matter what.

 

Why do you bother pretending to want to have a discussion here?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: wisdumn

so i've seen mostly me,galaxy,and irish as posting the Creator concept. so that basically leaves you and FT holding the bag of going all the way back to the concept of the BB and it JUST HAPPENING.

That is because you don;t bother reading FACTUAL PEER REVIEWED Scientists that are directly involved in this field. Unc and I are just two people that have bothered to read FACTUAL information on the topic and enjoy SCEINCE based discussions here.

 

It is truly ignorant to think that your 3-2 posting ratio here provides ANY credence what so ever to your claims.

 

Here is a step forward in your education, free of charge!

 

Argumentum ad numerum

 

This fallacy is closely related to the argumentum ad populum. It consists of asserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition is correct. For example:

 

"All I'm saying is that thousands of people believe in pyramid power, so there must be something to it."

 

AT LEAST: with all of the things i have said about the BB or before it, i have given plenty of logical evidence

???WHERE??? Show us ANY "logical evidence" you have provided ANYWHERE.

you must need a freeT formula here so howabout:

 

creator© + (maybe the BB or HOWEVER the creator chooses-X) = life and all of it's mystery(Y) once again: © + (X) = (Y) --- why? - because if ALL things were possible,nothing would be certain©reator

Hey Irish, here's another one to add to Mr Irish's math proofs!

 

You really don't have a clue do you wisdumn?

[wisdumn]

FT, i am now of the impression that you only skim the posts and don't read fully. i think everyone else got the point but since you didn't let me post it again for you. I BELIEVE IN GOD. I BELIEVE THE GOD OF THE BIBLE IS THE CREATOR. now to clarify once, i'm not here to argue the Bible repetitiously, besides, you think it's ficticious and you don't want anyone to use it to try and prove anything to you since you said that it has no basis, yet you want to prove everyone else wrong by using a book called-------- THE BIBLE---- so that first of all makes you a hypocrite and second of all means that you want to use the same book that YOU claimed has no basis and is ficticious. so if it's a fairy tale book, then why do you want to argue it with others or try to use it to prove them wrong? Now then, so you understand, i am trying to bring this to a discussion not about God and not about the Bible, but to a discussion about there being or not being a creator, regardless of it's deity or not, because that's the title of the forum(THE CREATOR). i have supplied PLENTY of logical,scientific,and reasonable arguments as to why there is a creator, but neither you or uncle M. have suppiled evidence as to your THEORIES. you both have gone on about mine, or galaxy, or irish's beliefs being wrong but yet, like you always demand of others, you have not supplied evidence to prove anything which once again makes you a hypocrite. you wanted me before to answer your questions and if you go back over the post you will see that i have, but you have yet to answereven one of myquestions such as to whether frank lloyd wright believed in God or if you believe in God since you use wright's quote in your posts.

[wisdumn]

and if you're going to SNIP my posts, at least use the whole sentence and not part. such as the part above about the BB. i said-------" while it may have been part of things, it is more logical to think that an intelligent,scientific,imaginative,and artistic force made it".

[wisdumn]

i have a clue that you provide about enough evidence to blow your nose with