The Creator

[IrishEyes]

Still trying to understand over half of your post. Were you in a hurry? I'll reply to what I could follow though...

[IrishEyes]

Truth has that tendency, yes.

 

Not sure what you refer to as 'truth'. care to elaborate?

 

And WHAT 'tendency' do you mean???

[IrishEyes]

New voices would be nice yes. We've had some. So while new "voices" would be nice, some new IDEAS would be nicer. What we get is just another Christian parrotting the same stuff over and over as if it is something new.

 

I am quite certain that the person you are referring to with this statement has very clearly stated that he is not a Christian. As he is not aligning himslef with any particular religion at this point, and very clearly states he is not a Christian, you should be more accurate in your statement. It is *not* just 'another Christian parrotting the same stuff..." Come on, FreeT, You're getting a little sloppy in your responses.

[IrishEyes]

Though I did have to educate you on many of the FACTS surrounding the bible and you ahve yet to resolve many of the errors and contradictions I have shown. I mean other than convincing YOURSELF (privately) that the errors didn't exist as far as you could see.

 

This one actually made me giggle, thanks! I seriously doubt that you will be able to 'educate' me on the Bible. While I will not even pretend that i know it all verse by verse, I do know that I have read it, and am fairly familiar with most of it. I'm not a Bible scholar, but I do read it on a daily basis.

 

Yes, you gave a list of 'contradictions'. I went through them and posted replies, showing where you were either outright wrong, or purposely misinterpreting things. No, I do not have all of the answers, but I still have not seen evidence of your 'errors'. However, I'm not going to waste either of our time going through the entire list again. I've done it before on another thread, and don't have the time to do it again right now.

[IrishEyes]

The BIG difference that remains is every time YOU are asked to PROVE your stance, we hear

 

quote:

As for any proof, we both know that there is nothing that you would conside proof of God,

 

 

an excuse for not even presenting things for evaluation. Such as the absolute mathimatical proof you had claimed some time ago. The closest we came to actually seeing this incredible proof was being told that only your husband could understand it and he was too busy to show the entire world that the factual proof of god existed.

While EVERYTIME I am asked to supply proof for my assertions, I supply them.

 

Absolutes coming from you? Now THAT is rich!

 

My husband listened patiently one evening as I ranted about you guys and your screams for 'proof of God'. He showed me, mathematically, how unlikely it would be for life to evolve. Don't drag him into this, he's not involved. He explained it to me, with math formulas and equations. I understood it perfectly, while he was explaining. To say that i claimed he was going to 'show the entire world the factual proof that God existed' is an (intentional?) misrepresentation by you. He showed me how much faith "atheists" must have to believe in evolution. It takes a heck of a lot more for you to believe what you do than it does for me to believe what i do.

[IrishEyes]

BIG difference between REJECTING factual information that is supplied and not having any to supply.

 

quote:

After studying the evidences available, I think that God is the only realistic conclusion for the existence of this earth, and man.

 

 

And of you find a single one that is substantial enough that you are not afriad to post it here, we would all love to share it with you.

 

quote:

I just can not accept that we evolved, not because I don't want to, but because there are just too many unexplainables with that conclusion.

 

 

And of you find a single one that is substantial enough that you are not afriad to post it here, we would all love to share it with you.

 

I have no idea what your statement that is repeated above means. I'm going to guess that you meant to say that if I can find a proof that I am not afraid to post, that you all would enjoy reading it. Is that close? Have you taken to early morning drinking or something? (just kidding, geez!)

 

I have posted, many times in many threads, the problems I have with the 'proofs' of evolution. There are so many gaps that it's amazing to me that you consider it to have verifiable 'proof' at all. We've done the dance of 'show me your proof of evolution' and 'here's my list' and 'no, that's a bogus claim' before. Do you not remember? You posted a whole list, I went through it and replied, you said I was basically stupid for not accepting that your opinion was the 'truth', and the argument ended.

 

Then you tried to assert that you were superior because you might believe in God if given proof, but i refuse to stop believing in God, regardless of all of the proof that you supply. You make it sound like a bad thing that I have convictions, but you are easliy swayed. i'm still trying to figure out how your willingness to throw out your enitre belief system is supposed to be a good thing, but I'm sure you'll have a suitable response for us soon. ;}P

[IrishEyes]

Yes, we know that the entire peer reviewed, field specific scientists are lying about Evolution, Gravity, Light and every other scientific endevor just so the masses will stop believeing in god. Can;t trust them scientists. That is why Medical Science, which is based EXCLUSIVELY on Evolution as FACT, is so harmful to society!

 

Why do you continue to put down scientists? This is a SCIENCE site. If you don't respect what they've done, go somewhere else... oh, sorry, thought i was someone else there for a second. LOL

 

Ok, let's look closely now... where did i say that the 'entire' anything were lying? Did I say that scientists were intentionally misleading the masses to keep people from believing in God? I think you may be confused a bit there, sir. I have never specifically blasted 'every scientific endeavor (spelling corrected by me)', nor have I implied a general distrust of 'scientists'

 

However, in an argument with me, you'd have been much better off not including MEDICAL science in anything. While you may disagree, and you have every right to do so, I do not believe that all of the 'advances' that have been made in medicine in the last 50 years are particularly beneficial to humanity at large. Now, before you go off on one of your rants, you must understand that I said "*I* do not believe that *ALL*...". Don't try twisting that into "Irish doesn't believe in medicine" or any other crazy concoction you may try to come up with, ok?

[IrishEyes]

quote:

any more than I consider there is any true proof of evolution.

 

 

See, once more we SEE the difference between us. You admit you will not accept factual proof. I just keep waiting for someone to come up with FACTUAL proof.

 

What we SEE is how you once more try to twist what i say to fit your own purpose. I did not *admit* to refusing to accept proof. What I said was that i do not consider the proof that you have previously given to be true proof of evolution. THAT is the difference. Instead of waiting for someone to hand me proof on a silver platter so I can accept it as truth, I went searching for it. The "PROOF" that you supplied supporting evolution was not unbiased factual proof. How can you laugh at people that cite scientific Christains, claiming they are biased, but you supply "proof" from sites that are clearly anti-God?

[IrishEyes]

Man, it's good to be back!!!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Truth has that tendency, yes.

Not sure what you refer to as 'truth'. care to elaborate?

And WHAT 'tendency' do you mean???

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Think it's a bogus thread, and I've been through the 'discussion' before. Not interested in re-hashing this one, especially when yours is the loudest voice. ;>P

Truth has that tendency, yes.

means that TRUTH has a tendency to be the "loudest voice". "The Truth will out". What you call "the loudest" voice is that which is often the "last" voice in a thread because when we get to the "truth" of the matter the thread often stops. The Socratic dialectical comes to an end.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

What we get is just another Christian parrotting the same stuff over and over as if it is something new.

I am quite certain that the person you are referring to with this statement has very clearly stated that he is not a Christian... Come on, FreeT, You're getting a little sloppy in your responses.

No, your out of practice is all. lol

 

1) What makes you think I am singleing out one person? Kind of presumptive to assUme such! There have been a number of single to just a couple of posts posters that took obviously Christian views and when challenged never even tried to support their assertions.

 

2) yes there were TWO (three?) recent ones right here. And if I can correctly guess which you are referring to, let's look at what they ACTUALLY said.

Originally posted by: wisdumn

...according to the Bible, Jesus states that God is spirit and that from God comes all of life. a thinking and living God is easier for me to believe than some atom in an ocean or on a beach eventually forming into anything.

Originally posted by: wisdumn

i think you should know at this point that i do not go to any church nor do i align myself with so called christians.

i do believe what the Bible teaches starting with the New Testament,... God taught me of things that no man or man's facts can.

 

So we have someone that proclaims the bible as their reference for a god based belief. Specifically siting it's mythical Jesus as if the bible was historically accurate and thus Jesus the CHRIST. IOW a follower of the biblical Jesus the Christ. Now few would argue that such a person would fit the description of a CHRISTIAN quite solidly.

 

But do they actually say they are NOT a Christian, as YOU claim?

i do not ... i align myself with so called christians.

Which is exactly the statement I get when I expose the horrific historical reality of Christianity and even it's murderous effects in today's world. We are told that those people only CAL themselves Christians and that is NOT your type of Christian.

 

So this person NEVER SAID they WERE NOT A CHRISTIAN, just that they did not go to a specific church or align themselves with all others that call themselves Christian.

 

Now perhaps this person will come back and say they are NOT a Christian, they just believe in the NT biblical Jesus the Christ god. (That is NOT a Christian?) But that is NOT whaat they have said so far.

 

Irish, once more we see where your PROOFS come from that I do not find acceptable.

[Freethinker]

Irish, Irish, Irish!

 

I'rish you would read more carefully.

 

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Though I did have to educate you on many of the FACTS surrounding the bible

This one actually made me giggle, thanks! I seriously doubt that you will be able to 'educate' me on the Bible.

Once more you read what you WANTED TO, instead of what is ACTUALLY THERE. I can see why you approach the bible the same way. It is just the way you read. You completely missed very important word. surrounding. We were discussing how the Gospels did not exist in their current form for hundreds of years after year zero. You sited various sources which you claimed referenced them earlier than my assertion. I showed you that they were likely frauds, lacking signtures, soources, or other historically validating references. You were not aware of this until I educated you on these "FACTS surrounding the bible "

Last laugh?

I'm not a Bible scholar, but I do read it on a daily basis.

And we see the results of your approach to reading.

Yes, you gave a list of 'contradictions'. I went through them and posted replies, showing where you were either outright wrong, or purposely misinterpreting things. No, I do not have all of the answers, but I still have not seen evidence of your 'errors'. However, I'm not going to waste either of our time going through the entire list again. I've done it before on another thread, and don't have the time to do it again right now.

And that was why I brought it down to the mathematical error in how the bible requires pi to equal 3.0. To which you told us your hubby had mathematical proof of god, which never materialized.

 

But if you'd care to takle the bible stating the moon is a SOURCE of light... We'll start off easy.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

While EVERYTIME I am asked to supply proof for my assertions, I supply them.

Absolutes coming from you? Now THAT is rich!

Hey, I have said many times that I have adopted the "When in Rome..." approach when in discussion with Christians.

My husband listened patiently one evening as I ranted about you guys and your screams for 'proof of God'. He showed me, mathematically, how unlikely it would be for life to evolve. Don't drag him into this, he's not involved. He explained it to me, with math formulas and equations. I understood it perfectly, while he was explaining. To say that i claimed he was going to 'show the entire world the factual proof that God existed' is an (intentional?) misrepresentation by you.

And here we go again.

 

1) YES you DID state your husband had a math formula that proved god. You mentioned that you would post it (are you going to make me dig all the way back to make "an honest woman" out of you?)

 

2) and YES as we kept after you to provide proof for your personal delusion, you claimed you would post the formula later.

 

3) this IS the INTERNET. If you post that formula, which mathematically PROVES god, here, the "entire world" WOULD see it. Or COULD

 

4) Tormod would LOVE the traffic that a post which showed mathematically that god actually did exist would generate if posted on his site. And YES the entire world would vist the site to see this first time ever actual proof for a god!

 

So there is absolutely nothing in "an (intentional?) misrepresentation by" me.

He showed me how much faith "atheists" must have to believe in evolution. It takes a heck of a lot more for you to believe what you do than it does for me to believe what i do.

Yes we know, this INCREDIBLE PROOF is SO OVERWHELMING that he dare not share it with anyone that might rip it apart and show the fallacies behind it. Been there, done that, over and over.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

I have posted, many times in many threads, the problems I have with the 'proofs' of evolution.

Yes you have posted many things many times. Just as you have posted many times that your god exists regardless of your complete lack of ability to show even the first valid proof of it.

 

Posting your "beleifs" never offered any PROOF. And when your objections were refuted, you either were not able to or chose not to try to show that you were still right even after your earlier attempt failed.

 

Sticking with false, refuted evidence does mean you have evidence.

Then you tried to assert that you were superior because you might believe in God if given proof, but i refuse to stop believing in God, regardless of all of the proof that you supply. You make it sound like a bad thing that I have convictions, but you are easliy swayed.

Let see, is intentionally accepting things that are FALSE and proven HARMFUL a bad thing?

 

Hmmm, let me think about that a while and get back to you!

 

Yes I DO find that making decision based on the best available information is superior to clinging desperately to antiquated superstition.

 

Just what does your 1st century keyboard look like?

 

And you surely would not accept the technology that brought you vaccines. You obviously would hang on to the CONVICTIONS of rejecting such man made attrocities against god's law!

 

Amazing how selectively you would apply these incredible "convictions".

i'm still trying to figure out how your willingness to throw out your enitre belief system is supposed to be a good thing, but I'm sure you'll have a suitable response for us soon. ;}P

Well on NPR "Science Friday" today I heard an interview with a scientist that has submitted a paper for peer review in which he shows that the photon is JUST a wave, NEVER a particle. It could revolutionize Physics. A few days ago no less than Mr Blackhole himself, Hawkings, reversed his stance on them!

 

But perhaps Eistein should have just acccepted newtonian physics as he was originally taught!

 

There would not be a single advancement of any kind that we find even common place today if there were not people willing to allow their very core to be shaken once and a while.

 

But that's OK, a 1600 year old rag is sure good enough for some people to live their lives by I guess!

 

Yet you use a computer and I would assume would stop your children from dying by using medicines produced from the THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

[IrishEyes]

means that TRUTH has a tendency to be the "loudest voice". "The Truth will out". What you call "the loudest" voice is that which is often the "last" voice in a thread because when we get to the "truth" of the matter the thread often stops. The Socratic dialectical comes to an end.

 

Being the loudest does not make you the most correct. Repeating your POV over and over does not make it the most right. And using your cute little cliche's will not win an argument. Come on guy, try harder...

[IrishEyes]

1) What makes you think I am singleing out one person? Kind of presumptive to assUme such!

 

Hmmm... well, you said...

 

What we get is just another Christian parrotting the same stuff over and over as if it is something new.

 

The "what WE get" indicates that you were grouping a lot of us together as a separate entity from another person or group.

Then you continue with "is", which indicates singularity, not plurality. Of course, you may have just not used the correct English tense of the verb, who knows...

But then you follow with "just another Christian" ... again, in the singular. Do you need for me to explain he difference between singular and plural to you? Or should I just buy you a grammar book?

 

The first seven words of your statement clearly indicate a single person. And as you also had been previously directing the majority of your fire at one particular indivudual, I made one of YOUR typical astounding leaps of logic. Was I wrong? If so, very happy to apologize. But I don't think I was in the case.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Why do you continue to put down scientists? This is a SCIENCE site. If you don't respect what they've done, go somewhere else... oh, sorry, thought i was someone else there for a second. LOL

That's called "delusions of grandeur".

Ok, let's look closely now... where did i say that the 'entire' anything were lying? Did I say that scientists were intentionally misleading the masses to keep people from believing in God? I think you may be confused a bit there, sir. I have never specifically blasted 'every scientific endeavor (spelling corrected by me)', nor have I implied a general distrust of 'scientists'

You have consistantly rejected the overwhelmingly accepted in the Scinetific Community, Theory of Evolution. You refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence that supports it. What you are rejecting is the most completely researched and constructed part of modern science. The very basis of how science works is encapsuled in the Theory of Evolution. Biology especially would not exist at all if Evolution was shown to be incorrect. Modern medicine is nothing but predictions based on the direct application of Evolution to our physiology. e.g. we KNEW we could use parts of pigs to transplant into human bodies because of our common ancestry providing genetic matching. Or that vaccines based on OTHER species is effective in human blood. BECAUSE OF EVOLUTION!

However, in an argument with me, you'd have been much better off not including MEDICAL science in anything. While you may disagree, and you have every right to do so, I do not believe that all of the 'advances' that have been made in medicine in the last 50 years are particularly beneficial to humanity at large.

Yes, saving lives is of little concern when their soul is at risk! That has been the stance from the beginning. WHich ever was the latest was the devil, while the things your grandparents fought against are wonderful now! And things we are able to force thru the religious intollerance and ignorance will be welcomed later as a "miracle from god"! Happens each and every time! You people never learn!

Now, before you go off on one of your rants,

Ops! Now you say something!

you must understand that I said "*I* do not believe that *ALL*...". Don't try twisting that into "Irish doesn't believe in medicine" or any other crazy concoction you may try to come up with, ok?

It's that arbitrary line in the sand.