Utah: what happened?

[J.B]

Are you saying that prison life can be used as an analogy for all of society?

 

Bill

What I was "saying" was a question:

Why did you side step this question?

 

In the Los Angeles Jail system blacks and hispanics are seperated by race, do you agree with this policy?

 

Why would you copy my quote without the question I asked?

 

Watch me answer your question:

 

Are you saying that prison life can be used as an analogy for all of society?

 

No, but prison life can be "used as an analogy for" some "of society".

[Racoon]

This is Utah what happened?

 

Not LA County Jail what happened?

 

The best we can hope to do as Individuals is TRY and have a positive impact on those around us despite socio-ethnic-economic differences...

 

I think I should follow my own advice and stay the hell out of the way :cup:

bye-bye Utah ... I'll miss your high standard of living...:hihi: :cup:

[J.B]

No. I think jails are stupid. Punishment just motivates people how to get away with things, not to avoid doing them.?

What do you suggest then.

 

Let me ask again, though... How is this relevant to the current thread?

I was responding to TheBigDog question.

 

but to answer your question.

 

I guess, that the quality of life in the L.A Jails improved for hispanics and blacks once they were separated.

[TheBigDog]

What I was "saying" was a question:

Why did you side step this question?

 

In the Los Angeles Jail system blacks and hispanics are seperated by race, do you agree with this policy?

 

Why would you copy my quote without the question I asked?

 

Watch me answer your question:

 

 

 

No, but prison life can be "used as an analogy for" some "of society".

I am not sidestepping. I am asking for clarification. It helps me to answer your question.

 

Do me a favor J.B, start a new thread with the title of what you wish this discussion to be about. I will join in. I think this is a great discussion, but it needs to be its own topic. Together we can prevent Utah from becoming a prison state.

 

Thanks!

 

Bill

[InfiniteNow]

Do me a favor J.B, start a new thread with the title of what you wish this discussion to be about. I will join in. I think this is a great discussion, but it needs to be its own topic. Together we can prevent Utah from becoming a prison state.

I'll do it...

 

 

http://hypography.com/forums/social-sciences/5780-what-effects-seperating-races-prison.html

[InfiniteNow]

In the Los Angeles Jail system blacks and hispanics are seperated by race, do you agree with this policy?

No. I think jails are stupid. Punishment just motivates people how to get away with things, not to avoid doing them.

What do you suggest then.

I suggest we ask this elsewhere, as it's not relevant to the current thread.

 

http://hypography.com/forums/social-sciences/5781-whats-better-than-punishment.html

[TheFaithfulStone]

"Hey, I know we're talking about the pink elephant in the room right now, but you've asked me a question for which I was unprepared. So, if you look over there you'll see that there's a giraffe. Now, let's talk about giraffes instead. According to the book of..." :hihi:

 

I'm not sure that those people are willingly deceiving you, or even that they are the victims of false conciousness. I think that most of them just cannot grasp that you don't buy their fundamental assumptions.

 

While I try desperately not to engage religious people in "Snot Stew" debates, I occasionally get roped into one. At one point, I was explaining to this person how I thought the idea of Jesus dying for my sins was more than a little macabre, and I wasn't particularly interested in believing that.

 

"But how can you not believe it?" he says.

"Well, I don't. I don't think that the way God works, and if it is, I'm not sure I'd wanna be on his side."

"But it says RIGHT THERE in the Bible that Jesus died for your sins!"

"Well, maybe, but I don't think everything in the Bible is true."

"But it says RIGHT THERE in the Bible that it's the Word of God!"

"Well, that's one of the parts I don't believe."

"How can you not believe it? It says it RIGHT THERE! Are you BLIND?"

 

I mean, the religious argument was logical fallacy wrapped in fallacy, but it made such perfect sense to him that it was an assumption on the level of "Gravity works." The Bible is the word of God, and therfore must be true. How do we know it's the word of God? Well, it say so, and since it's the Word of God it must be true.

 

You can't disprove this little gem of knowledge, and once you accept it, the totality of fundy thought follows pretty easily. (Except for the mysterious lack of "unclean women" (See Leviticus))

 

If you could both agree that the Bible was the infallible word of God, then you could have an intelligent discussion about religion with these people but... as it is, It's like trying to explain why thing orbit the earth to somebody who simply does not believe that gravity is real. Until you can beat into them that gravity IS REAL, they won't believe you.

 

Since the exsistence of God is a matter of faith (or lack thereof) the chances of convincing one of them that they're wrong, or even of making a chink in the armor, is practically nil.

 

They are having perfectly reasonable conversations about apples, and you're out there in left field, hollering about oranges.

 

It makes no sense to have these non-conversations with believers. They aren't bad people, intent on making you live their way (mostly) they just want to point out the error of your logic. But they assume (wrongly) that you start from the same point as they do. And we assume (wrongly) that they start from the same point we do.

 

Accept this, and the "annoying zealot" category is shrunk to those who are actually annoying zealots, and not just earnest believers.

 

TFS

[InfiniteNow]

Excellent post, TFS. Just one thing...

 

It makes no sense to have these non-conversations with believers. They aren't bad people, intent on making you live their way (mostly) they just want to point out the error of your logic.

I'd have hammered you if you hadn't included the "mostly" in that sentence, and if you hadn't used the italics so well, cause I really think many religious folks are very insecure and need others to believe the same to reinforce their own faith.

 

Anyway, look over there... a terradactal! :hihi:

 

 

:eek:

[jkellmd]

Thanks for the peaceful advice, gents. You're right, the average "door-knocker" has the best interests of the community at heart, at least in some sense. The possible unspoken motives intrigue me, though. I assume certain advancement oppotunities and rewards are available for high numbers of "conversions" or call-backs. Seems a lot like cold calls, telemarketing, and door-to-door sales.

 

Like Uncle Joe Stalin said, "Opinions can be argued with; beliefs are best shot." Haha.

[InfiniteNow]

The possible unspoken motives intrigue me, though. I assume certain advancement oppotunities and rewards are available for high numbers of "conversions" or call-backs. Seems a lot like cold calls, telemarketing, and door-to-door sales.

Like if they sell enough wrapping paper they'll win a free trip into heaven? That's scary in how true it might be. :eek2:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Yeah i can sympathise. Once in a while we used to get the 'door knockers' around here. You know the type; "Hello, My name is Brian and this is Tom. We're volunteering to go though the community and....blah blah blah....have you ever (thought/heard of) about (Jesus/Jehova/Mormon/etc...)?"

 

I used to get them but I've managed to scare the he!! out of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So it is safe to say they don't come around anymore!!!!!!he!he! Being crazy does have it's benefits!!!!

 

(Would you want to linger around a loony with a gun collection, a flamethrower, a fondness for mass destruction, and eagerness to discuss burning and blowing things up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A few hail Satans doesn't hurt either, arguing with demons (or voices in your head) while the door knockers are there definitly helps!!!!!!!!! He!he!he!)

[Racoon]

A few hail Satans doesn't hurt either, arguing with demons (or voices in your head) while the door knockers are there definitly helps!!!!!!!!! He!he!he!)

:eek2:

 

Yes. another way is to start talking about Hitler as a great person (and a few Seig hails); that usually makes them want to leave too...:) :eek2: :eek2:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

A few hail Satans doesn't hurt either, arguing with demons (or voices in your head) while the door knockers are there definitly helps!!!!!!!!! He!he!he!)

 

 

 

Yes. another way is to start talking about Hitler as a great person (and a few Seig hails); that usually makes them want to leave too...

 

 

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There is no method to Reality. - Do not reduce reality to static thing and then invent methods by which to reach it...

 

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Last edited by Racoon : Today at 08:06 AM.

He!he!he!he!he!

I've also got a large peel and stick pentagram which really seams to help also! (I think it's held in place by static or something)

[InfiniteNow]

No offense, DFINITLYDISTRUBD, but all the rant and bubble eye smileys and exclamation points in your posts give me a headache.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Perhaps I should change my name to Dfinitlydsturbng? (Hehehe!)

[Turtle]

...I wanted to start this thread instead of asking there...

Why do you think there is such a negative perception of Utah by so many people?

 

More man has come to mind. There is the issue of how Mormans treat/consider women in regard to their rights of participation & expression in the religion. Moreover the whole banishing or shunning or whatever thing they call it is rather an unsavory & extreme practice.