Marriage does it work.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

The problem Rebiu as you know is that men are pigs. Men want the freedom to exploit as many women as they can without having the obligation to support them. The current legal atmosphere does not adequately control the Masculine behavior. There are no substantial financial incentives to compel a man to be faithful. If each act of infidelity were to cost a man say $10,000 then maybe he would come home to his wife. If a wife works to add to the family’s income then she risks loosing her alimony rights in the event of the divorce that is probable coming because the worthless husband is not making enough money.

Women create and men destroy. Unless society controls men to limit the amount of damage they do then marriage and everything else will be the victim of men’s nature

 

 

OOOOOooooooooooooo! As a man I resent this negative overgeneralisation of my gender!!!!!!!!! Women are just as unfaithfull and just as destructive as men (they're better at covering it up though)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never strayed on either of my wives(1st or 2nd) or girlfriends before them . Nor had the desire too. My first marriage ended because she cheated on me with a neighbor for over 2 years that I know about while I was working nights (It sucks when you come home on your lunchbreak to find your spouse not there) add to that other problems and we divorced soon after it finally came out. My second wife will have me till the day I die . (I hope she can put up with me for that long)

[Racoon]

The rules of marriage have changed as society has realized more variables in the human condition. What the term marriage seems to stand for now, is a dream for the future.

 

Psychologists cannot predict with any absolutes which marriage will last for a lifetime and I would guess are often confounded as to why a particular marriage does defy the odds and succeed even with all the freedoms individuals have to end this commitment.

 

Yes, well stated Cedars! :cup:

 

In my Human Development course, we confronted this marriage conundrum.

There are 2 types of Love:

1) Passionate love - Burns like a Bon Fire,

2) Companionate love - warms like hot coals and runs deep

 

Passionate-love marriages usually doesn't last. those People run into marriage "thinking" they are in love, and they are! Its usually hot and steamy. But the Passion runs out without deeper connections. Many people get "blinded" by the Passion...

 

Companionate love runs deeper. It is the love you see in older couples who have been together 20, 30, 40 + years. :) they might not be AS passionate, but their love is true, and the couple really "understands" one another...

 

The best type of love is the Passionate-Companionate love!

Thats when you really got it Good! :note: :boy: :sun:

[Rebiu]

Family values can vary differently between families and generations:

perhaps "family A" values education above all;

maybe their "neighbors B" value love and helpfulness most.

 

Its a matter of convictions. Not all Families are going to have the same value system. And not all Value systems are so great. Say "family D" values money but not togetherness time.

 

There are TOO MANY psychological AND socio-economic variables to consider.

but, Yes, there has been a "change" in Roles and Value systems within the last two generations.

 

You just need to do the best you can for You and Your Family :circle:

Dogonit you said bringing back family values was a good idea so what family values did you mean.

 

As for your second idea: Yes definitely. Thats why I haven't been married yet.

I am FREE!!! :love: :D

Many People rush innto marriage. Why? usually its because the woman wants a wedding like all her friends, and to just be the center of attention for a while. Its simply "to Have a Wedding..." oh how exciting! then it crumbles after the Honeymoon phase is over! :singer: :singer: :singer:

I can usually tell after a couple months if Permanent Compatibility is going to work or not.

True, to true and we on the outside see it so clearly and they don't have a clue.

Most people need to learn more Psychology

 

Heres an interesting way to help stay Married, that I saw one time, and it was great: Live Next Door to each other, instead of in the same house or Condo or whatever!

That way you each have the living space, privacy, and unforced co-habitation with all the idiosynchratic quirks!

Still married, and you can sleep over when you want, but each has their space...:dog: :)

Sounds like a good idea, but why bother getting married just treat each other with integrity and place the appropriate value on the relationship.

[Rebiu]

OOOOOooooooooooooo! As a man I resent this negative overgeneralisation of my gender!!!!!!!!! Women are just as unfaithfull and just as destructive as men (they're better at covering it up though)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To true my friend.

I have never strayed on either of my wives(1st or 2nd) or girlfriends before them . Nor had the desire too. My first marriage ended because she cheated on me with a neighbor for over 2 years that I know about while I was working nights (It sucks when you come home on your lunchbreak to find your spouse not there) add to that other problems and we divorced soon after it finally came out. My second wife will have me till the day I die . (I hope she can put up with me for that long)

First let me say I understand the pain of which you speak and you are a wise man to have never inflicted that on another.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

It has nothing to do with wise (though I appreciate the compliment) it's more that I always follow my heart. Not exactly macho but oh well. I don't think even my wife would consider me macho. Doesn't matter she loves me BECAUSE I'm the quiet sensitive type (accept when I'm busy being a goofball)! She likes to cuddle I like to cuddle it's a match made in heaven!

[Rebiu]

The rules of marriage have changed as society has realized more variables in the human condition.

Interesting.

What the term marriage seems to stand for now, is a dream for the future. People who get married now know there are no absolutes, and they have choices that were not available in the past.

 

Before the advent of womens rights (which have been evolving), it was easier for society to hold a couple to this commitment. Easier because women did not have a say. Easier because women were considered property. Easier because women were not allowed equal access to marital assets. Those who fought for their freedom from a bad marriage had few choices. Society used the word 'divorced woman' as a dark mark on a womans morality. If they ran with the children, the womens family and friends had to support this group. Dead beat dads is not a new phenomenon. So many women stayed in a condition that was not a partnership, but a tyranny. A condition that there was few choices allowed.

You speak of dark times my friend and I agree that things have improved.

 

What I am saying is the illusion of marriage and 'til death do us part has had its dark side revealed and people are given choices they did not have in the past. A past that is not that far removed from the present. Yet we are allowed to make this decision without interference from the government, as we should be allowed to. You can quit your job, move, stop associating with your parents, your siblings, etc. People are allowed to make mistakes and they are allowed to change their minds if they want to. Why should marriage be any different?

I agree, but many hold on the the old notions as though they were the better times.

 

Psychologists cannot predict with any absolutes which marriage will last for a lifetime and I would guess are often confounded as to why a particular marriage does defy the odds and succeed even with all the freedoms individuals have to end this commitment.

You are obviously an enlightened thinker and I would have little to disagree with you about on this issue.

 

Consider a variety of marriage types rather than the one size fits all.

 

Like

Premarriage-couples legal finances could stay separate and divorce could be no fault and free. Taxes and insurance could be separate but inheritance and medical decisions would be the right of the spouse

 

Open marriage-perhaps there could be no adultery in this kind of marriage.

 

Ymarriage-If a person remarries the new marriage could handle the legalese of childcare and custody form the previous marriage.

 

The Utah marriage-if not polygamy then perhaps a legal relationship between more that two people.

 

Solid marriage-a second level of marriage achieved after say 5 years and at least one child that includes significant tax incentives.

 

Do any of these sound useful.

[Cedars]

 

Consider a variety of marriage types rather than the one size fits all.

 

Like

Premarriage-couples legal finances could stay separate and divorce could be no fault and free. Taxes and insurance could be separate but inheritance and medical decisions would be the right of the spouse

 

I am not sure what you mean here. I am aware of prenuptial agreements. My state is no fault now. You dont have to file your taxes as married and I am not sure of what you mean by insurance.

 

 

Open marriage-perhaps there could be no adultery in this kind of marriage.

 

I only know of a few people who attempted open marriage and all failed.

 

Ymarriage-If a person remarries the new marriage could handle the legalese of childcare and custody form the previous marriage.

 

By the time a person gets remarried these issues are settled. Please clarify on why you think this would be helpful, rather than another legal battle tearing away at the kids again.

 

The Utah marriage-if not polygamy then perhaps a legal relationship between more that two people.

 

I personally dont think this is a good idea, but I really dont know why its against the law.

 

Solid marriage-a second level of marriage achieved after say 5 years and at least one child that includes significant tax incentives.

 

I dont know what the statistics are on how long marriages last but heres a little bit I found:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/02news/div_mar_cohab.htm

 

I think we should stop giving tax breaks for all children or only allow deductions for 2 children at the most.

[TheFaithfulStone]

You'd like Robert Heinlein. There are always "non-traditional" family structures going on there. The Moon is Harsh Mistress has some interesting ones.

 

Now - talk amongst yourselves.

 

TFS

[Racoon]

Dogonit you said bringing back family values was a good idea so what family values did you mean.True, to true and we on the outside see it so clearly and they don't have a clue.Sounds like a good idea, but why bother getting married just treat each other with integrity and place the appropriate value on the relationship.

 

1. Family Values I think Good/Learned: Respect for my Elders, Hard work, Honesty, Integrity, Helpfulness, Understanding of those with different opinions/experiences

 

2. Sometimes it might be nice to be married!? :D :) but glad I don't have to constantly deal w/ kids! :) :xx:

 

3. Because it becomes a Commitment/Trust factor. Without having to get upset because you forgot to put the toilet seat down or wrongly screwed on the Toothpaste cap! :evil:

 

Happily UnMarried,

Racoon

[Rebiu]

1. Family Values I think Good/Learned: Respect for my Elders, Hard work, Honesty, Integrity, Helpfulness, Understanding of those with different opinions/experiences

Those are useful values lacking in many relationships.

 

2. Sometimes it might be nice to be married!? :hyper: :hihi: but glad I don't have to constantly deal w/ kids! :hyper: :hihi:

That is funny. I see kids as one of the rewards of the relationship.

 

3. Because it becomes a Commitment/Trust factor. Without having to get upset because you forgot to put the toilet seat down or wrongly screwed on the Toothpaste cap! :ebaskbal:

I understand you point.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Originally Posted by Rebiu

Solid marriage-a second level of marriage achieved after say 5 years and at least one child that includes significant tax incentives.

 

Yeah just what the average single hardworking taxpayer wants...to pick up the tab for other peoples kids!!!!

 

If people want to have kids so badly they should be willing to pay for them from their own pockets Instead of placing the bill into the hands of those that do not have children. You want a child you pay for IT!

 

Fact right now people that either paid little or nothing into the tax system are getting $3000-$5000 (eic) back from uncle sam aka taxpayers if you're single with no dependants you therefore pay higher taxes!! Want to pay less taxes start makin babies let your health insurance pay for it so single premium payers can pick up the tab in higher rates.

 

It has been standard operating proceedure for years now give parents a break paid for by single, hardworking people mostly in the lower income brackets!!! It's FUp!!!!!!!! and more importantly it's wrong!!!!! You wanted the kid!!! you had it! you pay for it!!!!!!

[Rebiu]

Yeah just what the average single hardworking taxpayer wants...to pick up the tab for other peoples kids!!!!

 

If people want to have kids so badly they should be willing to pay for them from their own pockets Instead of placing the bill into the hands of those that do not have children. You want a child you pay for IT!

 

Fact right now people that either paid little or nothing into the tax system are getting $3000-$5000 (eic) back from uncle sam aka taxpayers if you're single with no dependants you therefore pay higher taxes!! Want to pay less taxes start makin babies let your health insurance pay for it so single premium payers can pick up the tab in higher rates.

 

It has been standard operating proceedure for years now give parents a break paid for by single, hardworking people mostly in the lower income brackets!!! It's FUp!!!!!!!! and more importantly it's wrong!!!!! You wanted the kid!!! you had it! you pay for it!!!!!!

Perhaps you believe children are unnecessary. Having and raising children is the greatest contribution that can be made to society. I believe you had parents and I doubt your tax contributions have added up to an equal compensation for you upbringing. In the wonderful society we live in you are allowed to forgo child rearing in favor of a paltry monetary contribution. Choices are wonderful.

 

This country has a zero population growth and therefore it must be supplemented with immigration. Therefore policies have been instituted to encourage population growth. The value of this service is far greater than you tax contribution so your should consider yourself lucky.

[IrishEyes]

Feel free to correct me.

I believe marriage was developed in an age of practical considerations by the couples family. It was really a merger of families and the rules of marriage were designed to protect the family’s interests by compelling the couple to stay together even.

I the institute of Marriage in western culture still appropriate for contemporary society. If not what kind of marriage would work better.

Reading through this thread, I have to take a minute or two to make a few comments. Please bear with me.

 

'Coon, I like what you said about your class at school, and the differences between passionate and compassionate love. It reminds me of a study that I read that discussed the same type of thing. It seems that the 'in love' feeling is a chemical thing, that lasts anywhere from 6 months to two years. After this period, things generally fade, unless there is 'real' love at the core. This makes a LOT of sense to me, and seems to go well with stats on average marriage lengths and divorce rates.

 

I married the first time when I was 19. I was 'in love' and we'd known each other about 6 months. Well, we really didn't know each other all that well, come to think of it. We were very passionate about and with each other though, you could tell that from our fights. We married in February and he then got sent to Sicily, while I went to Puerto Rico (both of us were Navy). In July, he came to Puerto Rico, and our daughter was born. In November, he left Puerto Rico, and moved back to the States. The marriage was over. We tried a few times to reconcile, but it just didn't work. We simply weren't 'in love' anymore, though I really wanted to be. Looking back on it now, it amazes me how easy it was to get married, and how sad it was that in the back of my mind, I thought "well, if it doesn't work, we can always get a divorce". That should have clued me in, but hey, I was young and in love.

 

My second marriage happened when I was 28. We'd already been together and had kids when we got married. I actually was dead set on never getting married again, since the first one failed pretty miserably. Then one day, I decided "what the hell. we have kids. we live together. i never want to be without this man. why is my fear stopping me from marrying him?" So I called him up at work and asked if he could come home early, and he did. When he got home, we went and got married. It was small, simple, and perfect, with all of our kids around us. Honestly, it was one of the best days of my life.

 

So we've been married almost 6 years, and together for a few years longer. We have a house full of kids. He works a lot, and makes decent cash. I stay home with the wee ones. We fight sometimes, usually really big fights that have lots of yelling. It's good for me to get things out instead of bottling them up, and it's good for him to hear the stuff too. However, I have to admit to never once thinking "if this doesn't work out, we can always get divorced". That was his one condition. I had to go into this with the attitude that we would always work things out. Always. No exceptions. So, being a person that likes to keep her promises, I've stuck to that condition.

 

How does it work with us? Well, we talk. Sometimes we fight. We love. A LOT. We love each other, and our kids. We attend church together. We fight FOR each other. He is truly my biggest fan, and my loudest and staunchest supporter. He is my partner, in our family, in life, in everything.We respect each other. We do NOT always agree, and that's ok. But I think the biggest thing is that we went into this marriage with the idea that it was something that we both wanted, and neither of us would take the other for granted. Also, we both were at points in our lives where we LIKED each other. But more importantly, we liked ourselves. That was the difference in me, at least. I wasn't getting married to fulfill some childhood fantasy. I wasn't getting married to not be alone. I wasn't getting married to have someone take care of me. I was getting married because I knew that the man loved me, I loved him, and I wanted to share everything that this life has to offer with HIM, every single day we have left together.

 

Personally, I think that the single biggest reason that marriages fail is because divorce is so easy. The second reason is that people go into marriage thinking that if it doesn't work out, divorce is easy. The third reason is because people don't take the time to get to know each other before they walk the aisle.

 

Is marriage worth it? Well, for me it is. I've watched friends marry and divorce while I'm still married. I see their struggles and want to weep for them. My brother asked me how I stayed married, considering the fact that we didn't grow up in a traditional or stable home. I told him it wasn't easy, and we had to work at it. We don't take each other for granted. Yes, we determined to make it work and divorce is not an option, but it's more than that. Marriage is not for the lazy, or the faint of heart. It takes more work than anything else I know, except maybe parenting. But the rewards for me have been astounding. I wouldn't change it if I could.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

IrishEyes...I must be extra lucky then as my marriage requires little effort on either side to survive and thrive....of course my 72+hour work week undoubtably helps (abscence makes the heart gro fonder er sumthin like that).

I luvs mah hunny n she luvs me!! Life is goooooooood! (sure wish I had more time to spend with her though.)

[Monomer]

IrishEyes...I must be extra lucky then as my marriage requires little effort on either side to survive and thrive....

 

Well you are lucky!

 

Marriage works if you want it to - attitude is a key. But I think you also have to marry for the right reasons, and also marry someone compatible, not just in hobbies, but in attitudes, beliefs, goals and lifestyles. It's not about the wedding day, regardless of how much money is spent on it, but it's about a lifetime of learning, growing and hard work (except for DFINITLYDISTRUBD :lol:).

 

My first marriage failed because I was so ho-hum about it, and because my husband and I weren't really compatible. I had never been popular with the boys so when one came along and stayed for a while I figured I may as well marry him. We got along okay for the most part, but from day one in the back of my mind I thought if the marriage doesn't work out we'll just get a divorce. And then when the really tough times came along I had no desire to pull through and we ended up divorced.

 

I regret the way things turned out, but it didn't just happen - I was responsible, and my husband was also responsible. I married again some years after the divorce, but this time my approach was different. I married a guy who is really compatible, and we have said from the beginning that divorce it not an option. We want to work through our problems in order to be able to grow as individuals and a couple. Sure it's fun to be single and free, but marriage is also rewarding, especially when problems have been worked through. The other night my husband and I had the biggest argument to date, and it was just awful. There was lots of yelling and crying and hurtful things said, but we kept working at it and by the end of the night there were lots of hugs and kisses. It would have been easy to end the relationship right there and then, but we both feel stronger for having overcome that hurdle.

 

 

How does it work with us? Well, we talk. Sometimes we fight. We love. A LOT. We love each other, and our kids. We attend church together. We fight FOR each other...We respect each other. We do NOT always agree, and that's ok... Marriage is not for the lazy, or the faint of heart. It takes more work than anything else I know...

 

Relationships become really tough when that "in love" feeling dies down. Sometimes we don't like what we're left with, but it's important to choose to continue to love the other person. And it really is a choice, because there will be plenty of times when you don't feel like loving them. My husband and I try really hard to continue to show love even when the feeling isn't there, and usually the feeling follows the action. Talking is really important too because when communication breaks down problems can't be dealt with. My experience has been that if I communicate often and bring up issues when they first occur to me then problems don't get too big and can be dealt with easier. Respect is often overlooked, and I know that I didn't repect my first husband, but I respect my second husband and I try to treat him in a way that shows respect. And like IrishEyes wrote, marriage takes more work than anything else, apart from kids which I don't have. I don't think people realise how much work it really requires, and I certainly didn't the first time round and I got a shock.

 

So overall, it's great to have a companion and friend who I can journey through life and share experiences with, and who gives me so much love and support. It's nice working in a team.

[Kriminal99]

I believe this question is premature. Our society has a long way to go in terms of education with regards to not scholary disciplines such as math science etc but social behavior.

 

Widespread use of straw man fallacy, competition fallacy, etc create a social enviornment that is hostile in many ways and promotes immature behavior.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Marriage works if you want it to - attitude is a key. But I think you also have to marry for the right reasons, and also marry someone compatible, not just in hobbies, but in attitudes, beliefs, goals and lifestyles. It's not about the wedding day, regardless of how much money is spent on it, but it's about a lifetime of learning, growing and hard work (except for DFINITLYDISTRUBD ).

This time around...awsome! wonderfull! splendid!! spectacular!!! yup! you bet!

My first marriage.?.....................a nightmare at best....hell on earth....a fairly accurate depiction! First year was good last 5 of it awfull and I'll leave it at that!