Is there a God? What do YOU think???

[bumab]

i guess you have never heard of metaphor or analogy or parable for that matter. ....some of what you are criticizing is based on a reading from a translated text which is a factor of misinterpretation.

 

I see this problem as the main difficulty between science and religion. People on both sides take things literally, as is the scientific way. The modern worldview is very cut and dry, right/wrong, etc. Folks hundreds of years ago didn't have much problem reading parts of the Bible as alligorical (Luther, others...) So, to most back then (and most Biblical scholars now), the creation story is an analogy, the earth is old, etc etc. FT and others are very silly in their insistence that ALL parts of the Bible be read literally, whether they were meant to be or not.

 

The other side of the coin- the religious right has decided that the Bible is literal in all senses as well, thus resulting in many anti-scientific (and anti-people in general) policies based on interpritations of the Bible that the Bible was never intended to support. Serious study results in different impressions then a superficial understanding of the words, like any subject.

[TacoChang]

This topic seems to be a hotbed for the arrogant scientist-types. Yes, science has (in my opinion) successfully refuted most world religions proto-scientific notions concerning creation and the laws of nature. However, science (following the scientific process) is ill-equipped to delve into whether any god, in any form exists. Are their any other, older universes? Is their any life beyond ours? Could intelligent life have arisen elswhere, beyond our universe before ours? Is it a race of gods? Is the universe itself a mental organ of creation or a thought pattern completely reliant on its existence on whether a god keeps thinking of us? God knows. :D

I do know that atheism is anti-scientific. Any belief held as an absolute one is anti-scientific.

Do I belive in God? I am agnostic. I choose to base my beliefs and choices in life as much as possible around the scientific process and critical thinking methodology. My brain, due to both (in my opinion) nurture and nature, has found this to be the most sound way to deal with the world. However, science (math, to be specific) itself states that nothing can be self-affirming (except for Descartes famous theorem.) Maybe its us, the scientist types who don't get it. Maybe we can't see the obvious. Maybe the religious fundamentalists have better brains and know what they are talking about. Maybe, God has given us illusionary data about the universe and our conclusions, though scientifically sound, are erronius.

Anyway, to be specific, I am a Deist. I'd like to think that their probably is some kind of God-force but, it has had no hand in our universe since it created it. A scientist-God. But my opinon, and everyone else's can be nothing more than hypotheses. We have no tools to answer such a weighty question. :xparty:

[C1ay]

I really don't see how one could ever have a scientific proof of God's existence short of a personal visit. Most pure scientists rely on scientific method to accept or believe absolutely in anything.

[Tormod]

I do know that atheism is anti-scientific. Any belief held as an absolute one is anti-scientific.

 

Who said atheism is an absolute belief? We have discussed this so many times now I think it's time we put this in the FAQ: Atheism is not a belief system. It is the lack of a belief system.

 

To claim that atheism is anti-scientific is ignorant at best. Or do you propose that Hypography should be shut down because it is owned by an atheist?

[TacoChang]

Atheism is not a belief system

(Sigh)

Yes, it is. One DOES NOT beleive. An atheist saying "I do not belive in a god" is stating a belief in an opinion as if it were a fact.

Atheists love to hold that 'lack of belief' flag like some christians with 'I'm not religious, I love Jesus.'

So, the point that you missed still stands: agnostisim holds true to the principle of the scientific method. As an agnostic, I say:"Well, I don't know. I don't have enough facts to go on." One can be agnostic and still lean to either/or. It's just a point of admitting you don't KNOW. Only some, hypothetical, ferol human who has never been introduced to any kind of ideas concerning gods or religion can be truly, without belief or opinion.

...do you propose that Hypography should be shut down because it is owned by an atheist?

Just because this forum is owned by an atheist, doesn't mean it's invalid. This agument does not address my point. Not unless the owner is introducing, hidden bias to skew seemingly open opinions.

[Morphyous]

I believe in a creative intelligent force which some people may call God. I have no absolute scientific demonstrative proof to convince anybody else. My belief is based on small personal experiences, coincidences and conjecture. I have no affiliations to any established religeons. My beliefs do not hinder me from considering any options for creation, because I would like to keep an open mind on the matter.I do not see any dichotomy between believing in a God and

Science because Science may be the investigation of God. I'm not sure if creation is overseen or something which has been set in motion but my feeling is that its partially overseen otherwise we wouldn't have free will and I believe we do.

[TacoChang]

Originally posted by Morphyous: "I have no absolute scientific demonstrative proof to convince anybody else. My belief is based on small personal experiences, coincidences and conjecture."

TacoChang, slumps back in his chair, breathing a sigh of relief.

 

THANK YOU!

[motherengine]

Atheism is not a belief system. It is the lack of a belief system.QUOTE]

 

yes and no. atheism when one knows of the concept of god is a rejection of a belief system. but technically it is also a belief in that it is something 'excepted as true [or factual]'. the kind of atheism that declares 'there is no god' is about as ignorant a statement as it gets in this respect. the kind of atheism that declares 'i don't believe in god' is a type of belief in and of itself as in 'i believe in a universe without intentional design'. agnosticism was created to represent the declaration 'i do not know if there is a god or not'. and this is closer to an absence of belief (which actually is something only a new born can have).

[frostbitte]

I believe that God is part of everything and everything is part of God.

 

 

This is closest to my answer but I don't think our puny briains let alone words can describe this.

[BEAKER]

"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity and grasping for the wind." - Solomon

[Tormod]

Hey Beaker! Long time no see! :o

[jp3089]

I believe that God is part of everything and everything is part of God.

 

 

This is closest to my answer but I don't think our puny briains let alone words can describe this.

 

So humans are part of God? Does that make us God?

 

-jp

[nemo]

isn't this the textbook definition of pantheism?

[jp3089]

isn't this the textbook definition of pantheism?

 

I just googled "pantheism". You are very correct. According to 3 or 4 sites, pantheists believe that the only Eternal Deity is the universe. Basically, everything is God and vice versa....

 

Again, that begs the question "Are we God?".

 

-jp

[Queso]

oops i chose the wrong one. oh well

[frostbitte]

I just googled "pantheism". You are very correct. According to 3 or 4 sites, pantheists believe that the only Eternal Deity is the universe. Basically, everything is God and vice versa....

 

Again, that begs the question "Are we God?".

 

-jp

 

 

I believe in a way yes. We are a part of endless possibilities each one of us being one possibility. That goes for everyone and everything that exists, that will exist and won't ever exist if that makes any sense...Dang, I'm tired.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me at least that God is some being sitting in the "clouds". I think that's just our simple way of humanizing the concept.

[BEAKER]

Hey Tormod!

 

I like what you've done with the place!