Colonialism: Imperial greed or evolutionary imperative?

[questor]

Magnet Man, since you opened this discussion, are you prepared to deal with

facts without becoming angry?

[MagnetMan]

I think you need to revisit every contrary post in this thread. I see no one denying problems of conflicts between races, religions, cultures and nations. I see several people questioning the importance, indeed postulated dominance, of colonialism in generating such hostilities.

If you have spent thirty years researching this you will naturally have a strong bias to believing your view is correct. Might this now blind you to alternate views expressed by others whose interpretation of history is different?

I am quite willing to listen another researcher's 30 year conclusions on the evolution of human consciousness- provided it is an original work done completely in the field, and global-wide in scope, as mine is - and not the regurgitated book-learned bias that our students are currently fed with and against which I checked my own research. I may be blind in one eye, bot not both. And we all know about a one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind.

 

Next to the issue of the exsistence of God, I am willing to debate any one out there on the importance of the unresolved racial relations created by colonialism, as apposed to any other critical issue. It is at the root of almost every violent human conflict on the planet today.

 

Magnet Man, since you opened this discussion, are you prepared to deal with

facts without becoming angry?

You are mistaking passion for anger.

I am both metaphysician and physicist. Pure objectivity unleavened by inspiration defines robots.

I believe that the body and soul are one and the same thing and am not scared to show my emotions. Nor am I scared to trust my untuitions. Check out the feminine side of your nature and challenege logic for a while. The water is fine and the view is much broader.

[Eclogite]

I am quite willing to listen another researcher's 30 year conclusions on the evolution of human consciousness- provided it is an original work done completely in the field, and global-wide in scope, as mine is - and not the regurgitated book-learned bias that our students are currently fed with and against which I checked my own research.

Since I have not conducted such research and rarely regurgitate anything, though I once read a book, you may safely ignore the rest of this post.

 

Observation 1: Most violent conflicts, contrary to MMs contention, are not an outgrowth of colonialism. If we assess conflicts by the rather tasteless method of a body count, here are the most violent of the last century.

1 20,000,000 Second World War 1937-45

2 8,500,000 First World War 1914-18

3 1,200,000 Korean War 1950-53

4 1,200,000 Chinese Civil War 1945-49

5 1,200,000 Vietnam War 1965-73

6 850,000 Iran-Iraq War 1980-88

7 800,000 Russian Civil War 1918-21

8 400,000 Chinese Civil War 1927-37

9 385,000 French Indochina 1945-54

10 200,000 Mexican Revolution 1911-20

10 200,000 Spanish Civil War 1936-39

12 160,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62

13 150,000 Afghanistan 1980-89

14 130,000 Russo-Japanese War 1904-05

15 100,000 Riffian War 1921-26

15 100,000 First Sudanese Civil War 1956-72

15 100,000 Russo-Polish War 1919-20

15 100,000 Biafran War 1967-70

19 90,000 Chaco War 1932-35

20 75,000 Abyssinian War 1935-36

 

Those highlighted in red certainly appear to be colonial in character, while those in orange are arguably, but not necessarily so. I am profoundly unfamiliar with the Chaco and Riffian wars.

 

Source:http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-list.htm

 

Observation 2:The above observation does not invalidate a justifiable concern about the influence of racism in generating some hostilities, but far more important is its role in creating an imbalance of opportunity and justice in many countries.

 

Observation 3:Racism is primarily an outgrowth of the instinctive human wariness of the unfamiliar. It can be eliminated only by addressing that root cause. Focusing attention on secondary effects, such as colonial exploitation, segregation, discriminatory policies (official and unofficial), and the like will detract from that resolution. While those should be addressed it must be in a context where the biological origin of racism is acknowledged.

[MagnetMan]

Since I have not conducted such research and rarely regurgitate anything, though I once read a book, you may safely ignore the rest of this post.

 

My dear fellow, I am afarid I will have to. I distinctly refered to the conflicts we are now having - not those past.(ie, post colonial era) However, in passing, you did miss all the colonial wars of Alexander and Rome. Not to mention those between America and England and the Anglo/Boer war.

[Eclogite]

. I distinctly refered to the conflicts we are now having - not those past.

You may feel it was distinct, clearly I didn't.

Please list all the ongoing conflicts you believe are a consequence of colonialism.

[Webbly]

Gentlemen, no fighting in the war room!

[MagnetMan]

You may feel it was distinct, clearly I didn't.

Please list all the ongoing conflicts you believe are a consequence of colonialism.

The one that concerns me most is on-going race discrimmination.

[Eclogite]

As I have pointed out in a previous post, racial prejudice is a consequence of the simple implementation of a handfull of instincts. These instincts were quite positive when we never enountered more than a couple of neigbouring tribes in our whole life. In a milieu where scores of cultures and 'races' are juxtaposed they create negative effects.

 

I fail to see, therefore, how you can blame racism on colonialism, unless you are trying to claim that without colonialism these races would not be in juxtaposition.

 

[by the way your use of conflict in this thread seems to me odd. It implies viloent conflict - I think you earlier used that phrase. Now you seem to be back peddling to have it cover mere hostility, dislike and prejudice. A bit sneaky to change the ground rules mid game.:)

[MagnetMan]

I fail to see, therefore, how you can blame racism on colonialism, unless you are trying to claim that without colonialism these races would not be in juxtaposition.

 

[by the way your use of conflict in this thread seems to me odd. It implies viloent conflict - I think you earlier used that phrase. Now you seem to be back peddling to have it cover mere hostility, dislike and prejudice. A bit sneaky to change the ground rules mid game.;)

 

I got knifed a dozen times and left for dead, simply because my skin is white and the black gang that did it was looking for an intiation victem. The hostilty is voilent. Slavery, dislocation and on-going race discrimmination is still a major issue among one billion blacks and a couple of million American Indians and wont go away until it is fully accounted for.

[InfiniteNow]

MM:

Ever stop to think that maybe it's you who is perpetuating the hostility?

[questor]

M.M., you said:

''You are mistaking passion for anger.

I am both metaphysician and physicist. Pure objectivity unleavened by inspiration defines robots.

I believe that the body and soul are one and the same thing and am not scared to show my emotions. Nor am I scared to trust my untuitions. Check out the feminine side of your nature and challenege logic for a while. The water is fine and the view is much broader.''

since you indicate a desire for discussion, i will give you my view about race relations in the USA. first i would like for you to define racism. is it one person's dislike for the color of skin, or is a dislike for the other's culture, use of language, appearance, and behavior? if it is skin color, and yellow people

group together, whites group together, blacks group together, and reds group together, why is it not normal to be with your own color?

[MagnetMan]

. first i would like for you to define racism. is it one person's dislike for the color of skin, or is a dislike for the other's culture, use of language, appearance, and behavior? if it is skin color, and yellow people

group together, whites group together, blacks group together, and reds group together, why is it not normal to be with your own color?

 

There is a reality program on FX channel on TV. It is called Black/White. Two American families are living together, one white and the other black. Make-up artists are altearing their appearance convincingly. Each family goes out in disguise each day and experienaciong each other's race from the other's prespective. Yoall should watch it and maybe get an education.

[Boerseun]

I got knifed a dozen times and left for dead, simply because my skin is white and the black gang that did it was looking for an intiation victem. The hostilty is voilent. Slavery, dislocation and on-going race discrimmination is still a major issue among one billion blacks and a couple of million American Indians and wont go away until it is fully accounted for.

MagnetMan, you are priceless.

 

Racism is a preconception of behavioural characteristics assumed to be definitive of a group of people different than you.

Above, you have just assigned specific traits to blacks and American Indians.

A billion blacks, no less. Tell me - how big was your sample? Can we see your data? How did you reach that conclusion? Or did you base your conclusion solely on one single unfortunate event when you were stabbed? Can you tell me how many blacks in the US was attacked by white redneck gangs during the same period? Can you tell me why data on court convictions show the US legal system to be biased against blacks?

You have just proven to us that you're a racist.

Maybe the old-timer needs a few more lessons from the youngsters.

[Eclogite]

I got knifed a dozen times and left for dead, simply because my skin is white and the black gang that did it was looking for an intiation victem. The hostilty is voilent. Slavery, dislocation and on-going race discrimmination is still a major issue among one billion blacks and a couple of million American Indians and wont go away until it is fully accounted for.

And? That merely confirms my explanation of the origin of racism. I thought you were going to post something that demonstrated it was a product of colonialism. Of course, I am being unreasonable, because I know you cannot produce such evidence, as it does not exist.

All you have is a distorted opinion based on a foundation of misunderstanding. If you are serious about removing the very real scourge of racism you need to face up to its fundamental biological cause.

[MagnetMan]

Of course, I am being unreasonable, because I know you cannot produce such evidence, as it does not exist.

All you have is a distorted opinion based on a foundation of misunderstanding. If you are serious about removing the very real scourge of racism you need to face up to its fundamental biological cause.

 

Biology does not cause genocide. Respectful distance yes - and occasional border skirmishes. When the Plymouth fathers landed they were met with human kindness by the Indians. Subsequent colonial actions soured the relationship.

[Webbly]

MagnetMan, I can’t believe you are the same person who began this thread with such a lucid, eloquent introduction.

 

Reading your increasingly less dignified defensive swipes at the heel snapping, I see a wounded deer soon lying torn apart in the snow. I’d prefer you continue and skip distractions.

 

Forums are more blood sport than tools for consensus. As soapbox prophets in Hyde Park soon find, for every convert a hundred mockers are just rattling your cage. [“ .. this prophet ended by being locked up in an asylum, where he will have to convert the doctor before he can recover his liberty."]

 

MM, I followed your signature to that website and found a noble-minded if audacious theory - difficult to disprove, impossible to prove.

 

If you authored those ideas, and are such an old hand on the forums, surely you can do better than this.

[Eclogite]

Reading your increasingly less dignified defensive swipes at the heel snapping, .

I see no heel snapping. I see crticisms from several posters that go to the heart of MMs thesis, and, without proper and effective response, fully discredit it.