Does Capitalism have any business in a New World Order?

[BEAKER]

I hope that one day the religions can reconcile, but more importantly, the elite that runs this world must be overthrown, otherwise they will continue to pit brother against brother for their own advantage.

 

I don't expect that will ever happen, because although many religions are willing to accept other others with the same measure of credibilty as their own; fundamental Judaism and Christianity cannot do so. It is either because they are humanistically evil, or because they are true.

 

You are attributing the cause of all human conflit to the "elite" of this world; removing responsibility from the individual. This also assumes that those other than the "elite" are inherently good.

 

You yourself have said:

All things die. For us to assume that war is not a natural occurance is foolish. Animals attack each other when opportunity arises. Monkeys have been observed ambushing other groups of monkeys in territorial conflict. Nature will always work itself out. We have to understand that we are not the center of the universe.

[Mike C]

Inter

 

You blame people more than the bible. So you are partly right.

The reason I say this is because the message that the Sphinx sends is that the humanity (people) supercede the lion as the deadliest killers.

The lions head is replaced by a Pharoahs head.

 

But in our current world, the bible is the source of evil in the western world by its derivitives, such as Joe Stalin and communism, Islam that is a copy cat religion of Judaisms 'be fruitful and multiply' and the chauvinistic attitude of capitalism enriching itself at the expense of the people (workers).

Need I say more?

 

Mike C

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

People created the bible. If you remove the bible, you still have humans. We animalistic and therefore opportunists.

 

The only hope is that people will one day come to a consenus about what is best for the human species. And since all the religions send the same message, it is pretty clear (or at least it should be). But humans are humans. Perception is everything.

[Mike C]

Capitalism was an excellent tool as a domestic system of exchange during the era of nation building. It encouraged entrepreneurship, invention and the rapid growth of the technologies needed to develop the colonies.

 

Capitalism turned lethal when it went international, ending up in a lost generation of Cold War spending that bankrupted the two International super-powers, threatened the extinction of all life on earth, and left the next generations neck deep in debt.

 

Capitalism is an artiifcial obstruction in the new era of globalization. It is completely incapable of putting the whole world to work in the increasingly urgent business of efficient planet management.

 

AGREED!

Capitalism has now established itself as the 'one god' that the bible teaches by using its corruptive influence of governments with its DOLLARS as the controls.

 

I do not object to capitalism completely but only because of its appetite for dollars by the reduction of the workers to a lowly status of being ROBOTS to serve their cravings.

 

This is an insult to the workers that ACTUALLY create the REAL TANGIBLE WEALTH that they create.

 

To set the record straight, I am NOT a comminist but believe in the US Constitution as a representative government document that our republican politicians iseem to ignore.

Capitalism is NOT a viable replacement for communism.

We do not need either one.

 

Mike C

[Zythryn]

AGREED!

I do not object to capitalism completely but only because of its appetite for dollars by the reduction of the workers to a lowly status of being ROBOTS to serve their cravings.

 

You are generalizing though. What you mentioned is not a universal trait of capitalism.

Sure, some industries undergo turbulence as new technology is implimented.

While jobs are lost in one sector, others are gained in other/new sectors.

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

But I most repeat this:

 

We are on an isolated system with a limited amount of resources. Capitalism causes us to compete for those resources at faster and faster rates. Competition creates fear and fear creates conflict.

 

Whether or not capitalism is good for the economy is not the question, it is. But what is more important:economy or ecology, money or people?

 

This path is only going to lead to more and more greed, gluttony, envy, pride, sloth, wrath, and lust. Know that.

[TheBigDog]

We are on an isolated system with a limited amount of resources. Capitalism causes us to compete for those resources at faster and faster rates. Competition creates fear and fear creates conflict.

 

Whether or not capitalism is good for the economy is not the question, it is. But what is more important:economy or ecology, money or people?

 

This path is only going to lead to more and more greed, gluttony, envy, pride, sloth, wrath, and lust. Know that.

Your hypothesis is flawed. In a system that lacks competition there is waste of resources because there is little to drive process improvement. In a competitive market typical of capitalism the use of resources improves year over year. Limited supply rates inflate the value of materials. Companies need to become more efficient in their use of materials to keep a competitive advantage. The amount of energy consumed in the production of pretty much everything is reduced in a manic fashion by all competitive industries.

 

Study lean manufacturing, specifically the Toyota Manufacturing System, or even just review the concept of muda and how that is applied to industry and then make your statement again.

 

Want of profit in a competitive market is the greatest friend of reducing energy consumption and waste.

 

Bill

[Mike C]

Want of profit in a competitive market is the greatest friend of reducing energy consumption and waste.

 

The question is.....How much profit?

 

With billionaires exploding by the hundreds in our republic (Latin capitalist system), where do you draw the line?

 

In a Democracy as the Constitution mandates, the only competition should be between the candidates competing to serve the citizens, not capitalism as we have now. This is the result of the corruptive influence in our country and elsewhere.

This is what I oppose.

The tremendous lopsided distribution of wealth is happening now and it has no limitations.

 

Mike C

[LaurieAG]

Want of profit in a competitive market is the greatest friend of reducing energy consumption and waste.

 

Bill

 

Hi Bill,

 

That's not quite exactly so when you look at the latest Australian public/private projects, particularly with regards to toll roads.

 

As our (conservative) federal government only spends 25% of fuel taxes on our national road system, PPP's (Public Private Partnerships) are increasingly being used, along with commercial in confidence, to hoodwink the public about the actual costs involved.

 

There is no mention whatsoever about the depreciation from these, once public assets, whose extra public costs are now hidden under 'commercial in confidence'. Depreciation is taken from profits before tax is calculated and depreciation was never claimed on public assets by the government before so where are the increased profits/energy cuts/reduced waste coming from in this respect? (corporate welfare masquerading as policy).

 

This isn't capitalism, it's crony capitalism, and that's the problem with capitalism today.

[TheBigDog]

You have succeeded in defining the broad topic of capitalism with a narrow and fledgling example of privatization, at best a side topic. Convenient to ignore the vast examples of success to suite your hypothesis. Is there competition in the privatization of roadways? Does a consumer have the choice of taking road A maintained by company A versus road B maintained by company B, each with a fee for service? That would comprise competition, one of the fundamentals of successful capitalism.

 

Bill

[LaurieAG]

You have succeeded in defining the broad topic of capitalism with a narrow and fledgling example of privatization, at best a side topic. Convenient to ignore the vast examples of success to suite your hypothesis.

 

Hi Bill,

 

Haven't you noticed that when a 'sure thing' comes onto the market (like CDO's and Private Equity etc that usually have quite a vicious hidden component) it usually gets flogged so close to death that a decision must be made whether to put it down, or work out a way so that the public purse can support its survival?

 

Open your mind Bill, this process has been going on for many centuries.

 

The problem we face in Australia is that our federal government introduced deregulation in 1996 by quartering the budgets of our Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC). This is closer to Anarchy than Capitalism.

 

Does a consumer have the choice of taking road A maintained by company A versus road B maintained by company B, each with a fee for service? That would comprise competition, one of the fundamentals of successful capitalism.

 

No, in many cased the optional (i.e. paid for by road taxes) routes are closed by the governments to maximise the profits.

[charles brough]

People blame capitalism for the deterioration in our envioronment, in morals, in patriotism, in education, etc. because they don't know what else to blame. What else is there? Well, how about a general decline in society itself, in the morals of the people, in their ideals, honesty, dedication, etc.? That can be cause by the constant dividing and splintering of what we all believe into ever more sects, dogma, faiths etc. We can agree on very little so we all feel stress and hostility. It is bound to be the same with the people who run the economic system.

 

Every civilization in world history has gone through this same thing. They all eventually collapsed. It was not the fault of the economic system but of society itself and the natural life cycle of society and civilization.

[HydrogenBond]

Capitialism has pro's and con's. The free enterprise nature of capitalism creates motivation, since human nature will cause most people to work harder for themselves and their families than for complete strangers. It also sets up a system where reward has sort of a correlation to effort. It also spurs innovation as each person, trying to work for themselves, looks for new angles to compete.

 

On the negative side, the entire process is not always altruistic. Capitalism can use marketing and advertising to sell stuff people may not need. The philosophy is let the buyer beware, but clever marketing can be like a good con artist that can catch people off guard. Capitalism to build better semi-conductors for computers is capitalism at its best. While marketing a new pet rock to children is a little shady. The marketeers know the parents, will be stuck between a rock and hard place, because of this marketing induction within the children. The modest family may have to shell out $100 for sneakers or fear hurter their child.

 

The alternative, such as socialism, gets rid of the manipulative side of capitalism, but its also tends to get rid of the motivation and innovation. With capitalism, the farmer may work 18 hours days to make a better life for himself and family. This is good capitalism with a good product. But if all his hard work is going into the community pot, he will expect others to put the same effort. But if others only wish to work 6 hours per day, the farmer will eventually cut down his effort to be like the average. The result leads to rationing and little incentive to takes chances.

 

If socialism could create a slave state where the capitalists and hardest workers were forced to maintain their same level of effort, and then could redistribute the booty, so everyone is getting to share in the high output, it may work. But fear never works as good as desire in the long term. The fear will burn the hard workers out, while desire sort of renewes itself. But without fear or desire, people get lazy and just want to minimize effort. It sort of comes down to a different type of capitalism, where one tries to maximize the value obtained, while using the minimum amount of effort.

 

Capitialism could be improved if the goverment offered education, but not regulation, to help neutralize some of the affects of advertising. What would be left is a shift more toward the good and services needed for a healthy culture. This won't happen, because in all forms of government, the kickback process is based on the free enterprise system. Even the leaders of socialized countries can do fairly well with free enterprise.

[Mike C]

Charkes

 

Do not blame the people. They are just followers.

 

As far as competition is concerned, how does that compare Wallmart to the small business around the corner?

And in agriculture, how does the small farmers compete with 'agribusiness?

 

These small business people are closing shop and being put out of business as well as the workers in our country that are being replaced with the Chinese workers.

 

The republicans have created a corporate welfare state for these dinosaur corporations.

Their political donations and other perks are the causes.

We need to CHANGE the system to eliminate this corruption by promoting the PUBLIC FINANCING OF OUR ELECTIONS.

No private dollars should be allowed since these dollars buy advertising that does NOT constitute FREE speech. So I think they can be legally banned.

 

These statements, of course, pertain to the US economy.

Incidentally, the US dollar has depreciated by about 60% worldwide.

Our country now is a republican economy mandated by the 'new world order' that had its headquarters crashing to the ground here recently.

 

Mike C

[charles brough]

Capitalism was an excellent tool as a domestic system of exchange during the era of nation building. It encouraged entrepreneurship, invention and the rapid growth of the technologies needed to develop the colonies.

 

Capitalism turned lethal when it went international, ending up in a lost generation of Cold War spending that bankrupted the two International super-powers, threatened the extinction of all life on earth, and left the next generations neck deep in debt.

 

Capitalism is an artiifcial obstruction in the new era of globalization. It is completely incapable of putting the whole world to work in the increasingly urgent business of efficient planet management.

 

AGREED! But what would you replace it with? Communism? Socialism? Perhaps it is not capitalism that is to blame but the deterioration that stems from a world leadership in the hands of a public that has grown fat with luxury, has lost a sense of honor, integrity and prinicple, and votes for people like itself. So, they lead the world that way, the way you describe.

 

The ideal of Secular Humanism is that the public can do no wrong, but people all over the world are coming to the realization that American secular ideals don't work. They see Iraq, terrorism, a defiant Iran, Burma, a starving Africa and conclude we are no longer effective. The world is moving back to the old religions.

 

In HOME PAGE I show how this gradual change is part of social evolution and what we can and will eventually have to do about it.

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

In your opinion, what are the pros and cons for socialism?

 

But before you do, when I speak of the dissolution of capitalism in the world, I speak of step towards a larger picture. Capitalism makes a nation economically strong, which creates complacency and incontinence. It creates significant economic inequality, which breeds contempt and hatred. It is easily corruptable. Capitalism instills many of the negative ideals of this world. Ecology is more important than the economy.

 

How does capitalism motivate people? Its based on the idea that you can move up in your society. This creates segregation of human beings. Humans should be working together for the good of the whole. Capitalism is provoking the whole to feed off itself.

 

And as for process improvement, how are the processes improved and at what cost? This country has made leaps and bounds in process improvement, which leads to the disappearance of many jobs. These jobs are being replaced by management like jobs, which are also being improved to create more efficiency and cut costs. And businesses that actually create products that we need are dropping off. The largest growths in technology are being used to entertain us. The food service industry is booming, just to keep us fed.

 

Cost efficiency has prevented humans from taking some major steps technologically and socially. The bottom line is more important to businesses than the people who make that bottom line.

[Mike C]

In your opinion, what are the pros and cons for socialism?

 

But before you do, when I speak of the dissolution of capitalism in the world, I speak of step towards a larger picture. Capitalism makes a nation economically strong, which creates complacency and incontinence. It creates significant economic inequality, which breeds contempt and hatred. It is easily corruptable. Capitalism instills many of the negative ideals of this world. Ecology is more important than the economy.

 

How does capitalism motivate people? Its based on the idea that you can move up in your society. This creates segregation of human beings. Humans should be working together for the good of the whole. Capitalism is provoking the whole to feed off itself.

 

And as for process improvement, how are the processes improved and at what cost? This country has made leaps and bounds in process improvement, which leads to the disappearance of many jobs. These jobs are being replaced by management like jobs, which are also being improved to create more efficiency and cut costs. And businesses that actually create products that we need are dropping off. The largest growths in technology are being used to entertain us. The food service industry is booming, just to keep us fed.

 

Cost efficiency has prevented humans from taking some major steps technologically and socially. The bottom line is more important to businesses than the people who make that bottom line.

 

Capitalism creates nothing! It just 'exploits' cheap labor, inventors ideas, government corruption, government granted monopolies, job eliminations like automated telephone responses and any other such tactics that do likewise.

 

The technologies that we have todau result from inventions and research and development that has evolved over centuries of gradual improvements.

 

The capitalism I criticize is not the ones that treat the workers with the respect they deserve and there are a few like that.

 

Mike C