MagnetMan Posted April 17, 2006 Report Posted April 17, 2006 All you can offer is supposition based upon adopted and unfounded premises. You may be correct, but you can offer no proof. Therefore it remains an opinion. Never-the less it remains an intelligent opinion and remains true for all intelligent people .
FRIPRO Posted April 21, 2006 Author Report Posted April 21, 2006 I dont mind that he posted a link.. I would of liked to see it, but now its gone.Oh well, I can see though how it may get a little spammy but honestly these forums arent all that active anyway. THE LINK IS:http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html
arkain101 Posted April 21, 2006 Report Posted April 21, 2006 hey man, much appreciated for digging that post up and responding ! heh. my lucky day.
Eclogite Posted April 21, 2006 Report Posted April 21, 2006 FRIPRO, I am still waiting clarification of your ambiguous responses, as requested in my post of the 16th. I would welcome a clear response.Thank you.Ophiolite
FRIPRO Posted April 24, 2006 Author Report Posted April 24, 2006 FRIPRO, I am still waiting clarification of your ambiguous responses, as requested in my post of the 16th. I would welcome a clear response.Thank you.Ophiolite My Friend: I would be glad to answer your request for clarification (of my ambiguous responses of your 16th) but I can not find it. )For reference: http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html FRIPRO
Eclogite Posted April 24, 2006 Report Posted April 24, 2006 FRIPRO, please refer to posts #61, 62 and 64 in this thread. (In my site view they are on the previous page to this. I am surprised you found them difficult to locate.)
FRIPRO Posted April 24, 2006 Author Report Posted April 24, 2006 You are being obscure and ambiguous. What did you not imply? Thank you for your advice. In fact with your permission I have added your thoughts to my Epolog as follows: It really means the Universe's Intelligence (as a living organism) is behind its own Design and Evolution (in a constant state of change) and It is man's source of design intent. It is man and other species hands etc. that carry out the evolution through the Universe's evolving plan. Such a plan pre-designed by a living Intelligent mind or minds. This is not religious -- but science! This can be refered on line at:Epilog http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html FRIPRO
Eclogite Posted April 24, 2006 Report Posted April 24, 2006 OK. I give up. You do not want to answer my question. I don't know why not and frankly I suspect I no longer care. It was a simple question, yet every time I asked it you refused to answer it. In some cultures and contexts that might be thought of as rude. I am sure you have some other polite and sensible reason for your refusal. If you hope to persuade anyone that your conjectures have any merit you will stand a better chance if you engage with them, and not fly off at seemingly irrelevant tangents. It does not encourage participation and dialogue. Good luck.
FRIPRO Posted April 25, 2006 Author Report Posted April 25, 2006 OK. I give up. You do not want to answer my question. I don't know why not and frankly I suspect I no longer care. It was a simple question, yet every time I asked it you refused to answer it. In some cultures and contexts that might be thought of as rude. I am sure you have some other polite and sensible reason for your refusal. If you hope to persuade anyone that your conjectures have any merit you will stand a better chance if you engage with them, and not fly off at seemingly irrelevant tangents. It does not encourage participation and dialogue. Good luck. My friend Eclogite: I did answer your thoughts and I even posted your thoughts on my manuscript under Epolog. I have agreed with you that evolution can mean in (a constant state of change)Thank you for your advice. In fact with your permission I have added your thoughts to my Epolog as follows: It really means the Universe's Intelligence (as a living organism) is behind its own Design and Evolution (in a constant state of change) and It is man's source of design intent. It is man and other species hands etc. that carry out the evolution through the Universe's evolving plan. Such a plan pre-designed by a living Intelligent mind or minds. This is not religious -- but science! This can be refered on line at:Epilog http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html in the end of the manuscript at EPOLOG Tom
Eclogite Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 My friend Eclogite: I did answer your thoughts and I even posted your thoughts on my manuscript under Epolog. I have agreed with you that evolution can mean in (a constant state of change)I don't know what thread you are reading, but it doesn't seem to be this one. I did not say that evolution can mean in a constant state of change. I very specifically said that you had implied that evolution means a condition of advancement. Change and advancement are definitely not the same thing. Advancement is a distinct subset of change. The distinction between these two was critical to my point. I do, however, take from all this that you believe evolution means simply constant change, with no preferred direction, or quality, or level. While it is true that evolution does not have a direction per se there is a sense in which it is considered, over time, to lead to more complex entities, or more complex ecologies, or more complex behaviours. You clearly reject this view. There, as in other matters, we differ.
MagnetMan Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 I do, however, take from all this that you believe evolution means simply constant change, with no preferred direction, or quality, or level. While it is true that evolution does not have a direction per se there is a sense in which it is considered, over time, to lead to more complex entities, or more complex ecologies, or more complex behaviours. You clearly reject this view. There, as in other matters, we differ. Evolution, in a biological sense, is to devlop to more highly organized states. Change, both phsyical and consciously is then part of the equation. If movement towards higher states is not direction, what else can it be? Since there is constant conscious direction then there must be meaningful purpose. If it has both meaning and direction, then it must be by design. If it is designed with an evolving consciousness in mind, then there has to be a Director.
InfiniteNow Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 Evolution, in a biological sense, is to devlop to more highly organized states. :confused: Evolution (by natural selection) takes place whereby certain adaptations are better suited to a particular enviroment, and those with these adaptations reproduce whereas those without them do not. Organized states have nothing to do with it. Change, both phsyical and consciously is then part of the equation. If movement towards higher states is not direction, what else can it be? Well, considering your initial statement is wrong, it is futile arguing against this point. Since there is constant conscious direction then there must be meaningful purpose. :D If it has both meaning and direction, then it must be by design. :eek2: If it is designed with an evolving consciousness in mind, then there has to be a Director.:) It's amazing how far off track people can get when they begin with a faulty premise. Albert Ellis would have a field day with you...
MagnetMan Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 :cup: Evolution (by natural selection) takes place whereby certain adaptations are better suited to a particular enviroment, and those with these adaptations reproduce whereas those without them do not. Organized states have nothing to do with it. I thought the idea of a mechanistic universe went out the window yesterday already. We are in the Nuclear Age now. Your line of reasoning is becoming increasingly invalid. It's amazing how far off track people can get when they begin with a faulty premise. Albert Ellis would have a field day with you... Makes one wonder why he was thrown off his own board.
InfiniteNow Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 I thought the idea of a mechanistic universe went out the window yesterday already. We are in the Nuclear Age now. Your line of reasoning is becoming increasingly invalid.Considering I was explaining to you the process of natural selection, what is the relevance of your comment above? And exactly how does a categorization of our current society being in a nuclear age make the appropriate description of natural selection invalid? Makes one wonder why he was thrown off his own board.Wow... did you read that whole first paragraph, or just the last line? Yeah... because a Board full of humans following their own interests is never motivated by politics and agendas... Please... Basically, he was old and his health care costs enormous and they couldn't afford to keep him there any more, so requested he step down. http://www.albertellis.info/crisis.html http://nationalpsychologist.com/articles/art_v14n6_1.htmA source, speaking on condition of anonymity but close to the situation, said that since the vote to oust Ellis at least two members of the board have claimed they were coerced into voting Ellis off the board and later repudiated their votes My point was that you consistently speak in terms of "musts" and "oughts," and the work of Albert Ellis very clearly demonstrates that this is a major cause of psychological dysfunction. He used Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to treat it, but the application to your posts remains appropriate.
MagnetMan Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 Considering I was explaining to you the process of natural selection, what is the relevance of your comment above? And exactly how does a categorization of our current society being in a nuclear age make the appropriate description of natural selection invalid?I was indoctrinated with that explanation in grade school. I am a big boy now and i no longer regurgitate predigested information. Natural selection is a theory. I believe in intelligent purposeful evolutionary progressions - culiminating in human consciousness - which is still in the process of on-going development and will one day arrive at a transcendental state of God-Consciousness I came by that realization under my own steam.It's my own theory and I am sticking to it. My point was that you consistently speak in terms of "musts" and "oughts," and the work of Albert Ellis very clearly demonstrates that this is a major cause of psychological dysfunction. He used Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to treat it, but the application to your posts remains appropriate.I am sorry if I come on too strong for you and Mr Ellis - but I am fighting an entrenched pseudo-intellectual mind-set and if persecution is part of the price I must pay for being assertive......
InfiniteNow Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 Hmmm... feelings of persecution too? Whoa... A whole cornicopia of neuroses. It's not persecution when you're wrong and people are telling you you're wrong. It's called accurate feedback and criticism, you self-righteous, delusional... oh, sorry. This is the theology forum. I respect your beliefs. :cup:
MagnetMan Posted April 25, 2006 Report Posted April 25, 2006 Hmmm... feelings of persecution too? Whoa... A whole cornicopia of neuroses. It's not persecution when you're wrong and people are telling you you're wrong. It's called accurate feedback and criticism, you self-righteous, delusional... oh, sorry. This is the theology forum. It is persecution when you know you are right and the mob is jeering at you for not denying yourself. I am not neorotic about it, it comes with the job. I used to be part of the mob myself. I respect your beliefs too. Time changes everything. Intellegent progression is always at work, you too will grow up one day :cup:
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