Universe's Intelligent Design by Evolution (UIDE)©

[Boerseun]

You have crossed way over the line with the above post, Boerseun. I demand a retraction and a public repremand from the moderator (OH I forgot, you have the appointment.).

Sorry. No can do on the apology bit. I suggest you take your initial post (the one I responded to) to a shrink, and ask him to tell you what's wrong with you. I can be kicked off from Hypo because of my post, I don't mind - but I refuse to apologize for my post.

If an appology is not forth coming, let me remind you, this universe is a small place. We will meet face to face one day.

That a threat? What the hell is wrong with you?

Sadly. it is this type of superior arrogance that collapsed 14 generations of white colonial rule in South Africa. It made me ashamed of my national heritage and leave the country to become an American citizen.

Is the collapse of 14 generations of white rule in SA a 'sad' thing to you?

The irony of you blaming me for having a superior, arrogant attitude is amazing. A good thing for you that you left SA, too - over here, you would've been locked up for child abuse long ago.

 

Go see a shrink. Go get some help. And don't ask me to apologize for commenting on your ridiculous behaviour.

[Eclogite]

MM,

I think you are well aware that many of your ideas are radical. Indeed, you have commented on the difficulty of gaining acceptance of them from either the masses, or the elites. I think I have even detected a degree of satisfaction on your part that the ideas are controversial.

 

Given that, you must also be aware that some of your concepts fly in the face of what many would think is good sense. I do not say they are not good sense, only that the majority, by your own admission, seem to think them wrong, warped, delusional, etc., for there have been no floods of adherents rushing to join your crusade.

 

Does it, then, truly surprise you when you preach (and it is preaching) your more bizarre concepts without any proper justification other than your own self-confident self assessment?

 

My own reaction on reading how you had raised your children, you may recall, was relief that my own parents had not chosen such a path. What I did not say, but thought very definitely at the time, was this man is guilty of child abuse. Frankly, I was quite sickened by the blend of arrogance and smug self satisfaction you evinced when talking of your parenting techniques. [Not to mention the pure stupidity of some of the concepts: but in that regard you do not have a monopoly.]

 

Why am I even raising this? Two reasons:

 

I wish to offer Boerseun moral support for taking a moral position even though it may be harmful to him.

 

I wish to make you aware of the depth of amazement, concern, dumbfoundedness, distaste, confusion, etc that your bizarre notions evoke in at least two of us on this site. I suspect we are not alone.

 

If you sincerely wish to change the world for the better you need to pay more heed to the reactions your concepts engender. That is an absolute.

 

I would also suggest the first place to change it for the better is in your own psyche. But that is merely an opinion.

[TheBigDog]

MagnetMan, elloquence is not a substitute for facts. Vernon Howell was an elloquent speaker and had people who he pointed to as being examples of the truth of his unorthodoxed ways. As much as you believe in what you saying here, and you articulate it quite elloquently, it comes up far short of being convincing as the only logical path into the future.

 

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

 

Bill

[MoonBaby]

I’ve registered on this forum quite some time ago, though I never posted, this is my first. I’m MagnetMan’s daughter, my name is Cat and I am 20 years old.

As one can imagine I am compelled to respond to this disgraceful attack on our family. I understand the usual reactionary response to a new and unfamiliar concept… but wow. In the face of testimony on the results of an alternate upbringing, you absolutely disregard and slander all that has been said and make extreme accusations of the exact opposite of what has been stated. By extreme I mean completely general blanket statements about something you know nothing about. Not to mention interpreting things with what seems like a deliberately block-headed approach of not reading between the lines and taking things out of context. My understanding of what a scientist is supposed to represent is thrown into jeopardy here. Not reading or writing before puberty does not equate ignorance. What it does do is keep ones mind open to a wealth of oral-based storytelling of history and mythology. Do you have any idea of how much the mind and memory is stimulated and strengthened by not leaning on script-based information? Practice of practical mental math at a young age during arts and crafts assignments and at any time during my average day allowed me to pick up written mathematical equations a lot faster and more completely. Despite your word for it, reading comprehension has always been my best subject at which my test scores were in the top 1% percentile of the nation. Both my younger brother and sister have written 300 plus page novels, and also test well above average. And awareness of cause and effect in the universe is something that I consider to be an admirable human quality. As for shaving my head and going up into the mountains, that is an experience I wouldn’t trade for anything. It has given me a wealth of self-reliance and self-esteem and is something that I am proud to share with my many friends and acquaintances …. socially maladapted as I am. :) Those lonely hours up in the mountains, short as they were, gave me a deep appreciation for the meaning of family and company and the comforts of the technology of home. Finally, I am also the mother of the grandchild that that you are so concerned about. There is no way I would bring him up any other way than I was. I am having a bit of difficulty repressing all that I would really like to say, but I have too much respect for a value called good manners.

That a threat? What the hell is wrong with you?

 

That’s not a threat, it’s a promise. And if my Dad doesn’t wring your scrawny neck one fine day, I will. :hihi: Remember I have seven siblings who are just as outraged as I am, not to mention our mom! You’ve been warned.:naughty: :hammer:

[TheBigDog]

I’ve registered on this forum quite some time ago, though I never posted, this is my first. I’m MagnetMan’s daughter, my name is Cat and I am 20 years old.

 

...

 

That’s not a threat, it’s a promise. And if my Dad doesn’t wring your scrawny neck one fine day, I will. :hammer: Remember I have seven siblings who are just as outraged as I am, not to mention our mom! You’ve been warned.:) :naughty:

Is this a sample of how we will move peacefully into the new world order?

 

Bill

[Boerseun]

Hi Moonbaby, and pleased to make your acquaintance.

 

Although you might not see it, your father did you a great disservice in the way he brought you up.

 

You are now twenty. Which means you've been reading for about five/six years, now. When I was twenty, I've been reading for about fifteen. The sheer volume of books written in the English language is such that in order to get any idea of the Western culture your father so easily discounts, not a single day can be wasted not reading.

 

Tell me, where did you grow up? Did you have any friends growing up? Friends your own age? And I don't mean family, I mean people from outside your home, people with different, new and fresh ideas? At least ideas not the same as yours, in order to stir debate? Kids your age didn't frown upon your illiteracy? Were you seen as an outcast?

 

The members of the social regime your father is trying to dislodge with his irrational (and, quite frankly, arrogantly ignorant) philosophy will forever have an advantage over you in terms of their plain knowledge of basically everything. You see, it's simple: It'll take you ten years to make up for lost reading time, by which those very same people (your peers) have also gained another ten years' reading. You will never catch up. And this reading includes history, philosophy, politics, science, quite simply everything. You, of course, won't realise this, because you're subjectively involved.

 

Threatening me with physical violence won't improve neither your nor your father's case here, either.

 

Just think carefully before you do your own kids such a disservice. Denying your kids the basics of peer-level education such as reading and writing is immoral, and, won't you believe it, illegal in most Western countries.

[MagnetMan]

Is this a sample of how we will move peacefully into the new world order?

 

Bill

 

My usually mild-mannered family has surely got hot under the collar on this one. I expect all of them will have something more to add.

In the new world order we expect to find people with minds open to new ideas, a deeper sense of decency and a greater sense of humor.

As to my not being convincing enough about how I view things to come. Historically, new ideas take generations to seat themselves. Resistence, such as I am experiencing, is oxiomatic. It comes with the territory.

As to discontents. I have faith in human nature. Thy will come around eventually. Truth ultimately prevails.

[Eclogite]

Resistence, such as I am experiencing, is oxiomatic. .

Most likely because it is resistance to a load of bull.

 

TheBigDog: I have developed considerable respect for you based upon the posts of yours I have read on several topics. (Here comes the other shoe....)

 

However, I cannot accept that MM writes eloquently. Eloquence is more than simply the juxtaposition of flowery phrases, erudite references and clever expressions. It also requires cogency, delivered through coherent structure and clarity of expression. Without these it is a victory of form over substance. I fear MM's writings fall into this category.

[HydrogenBond]

From what I read intelligent design is often equated with God but it can also be looked at in terms of logical steps driving evolution rather than evolution being due to the randomness of chance. The best examples are in chemistry. When nuclear fusion begin in the universe and higher atoms were created, the reaction of hydrogen and oxygen did not go through a random selective evolution to make water. Water was always the logical consequence due to the laws of nature. If new star formed and made oxygen that was escaping into space with some of its hydrogen, I predict that water H2O will form and not H5O or HO3. This chemical design was already set when atoms formed even before the chemical step was reached. It seems reasonable that maybe there is already a logical order to events, like DNA being the basis for genetic material, due to the nature of the fixed laws chemistry and physics. RNA also works, but beyond these there is no random distribution of other genetic types materials (actual examples) since this was not the designed order of things.

[MoonBaby]

Hi Moonbaby, and pleased to make your acquaintance.

 

I’m not too sure I am pleased to make yours. But I am willing to give you a chance to make amends for what you have said about me and my family.

 

Although you might not see it, your father did you a great disservice in the way he brought you up.

 

That may be so, but from my present position I am very pleased to have grown up in such a completely unique way. Without knowing me, or how I turned out, how can you make such a prejorative statement? How do you know I haven’t turned out to be the most charming gift to the planet since bubblegum?

 

You are now twenty. Which means you've been reading for about five/six years, now. When I was twenty, I've been reading for about fifteen. The sheer volume of books written in the English language is such that in order to get any idea of the Western culture your father so easily discounts, not a single day can be wasted not reading.

 

I’ve actually been reading since eleven (puberty started for me then) I can hardly imagine what great tomes I missed out on before then. What were you reading at five? War and Peace? Crime and Punishment? If so, did you understand the underlying rationale? Anybody can read early. Early reading is pure indoctrination… you haven’t enough life experience to qualify what it is you are reading. Don’t you see that you have missed the whole point? Delayed reading was not to keep me away from all the wonderful literature to be read, but to give me an appreciation of words and their meanings and an ability to form an opinion on what I was reading. You are talking about sheer quantity… my dad was talking about quality.

 

Tell me, where did you grow up? Did you have any friends growing up? Friends your own age? And I don't mean family, I mean people from outside your home, people with different, new and fresh ideas? At least ideas not the same as yours, in order to stir debate? Kids your age didn't frown upon your illiteracy? Were you seen as an outcast?

 

First of all my family are my best friends. I was born and raised for the first seven years of my life in a little place called Hollywood. I had many friends growing up in the city, and they are still my good friends all these years later despite our remote location. They come to visit and I have the unique perspective that distance has given me. No I have never been an outcast. While different, people who are open-minded - the only kind that I am willing to associate with - have never seen me as a freak.

 

The members of the social regime your father is trying to dislodge with his irrational (and, quite frankly, arrogantly ignorant) philosophy will forever have an advantage over you in terms of their plain knowledge of basically everything. You see, it's simple: It'll take you ten years to make up for lost reading time, by which those very same people (your peers) have also gained another ten years' reading. You will never catch up. And this reading includes history, philosophy, politics, science, quite simply everything. You, of course, won't realise this, because you're subjectively involved.

 

Most people on the planet hardly read heavy books… intellectuals remain a rare breed. What am I supposed to catch up to? I revere history, and by unearthing its pre-literate origins my dad has given me the best perspective on how and why literature developed that I have yet to find in any other contemporary analysis of intellectual development. This fundamental understanding puts me ahead of the curve, and makes me more careful of the books I choose to read (and author myself) in the future.

 

Threatening me with physical violence won't improve neither your nor your father's case here, either.

 

I weigh 115, and if you’re scared of me you should be ashamed of yourself. You need to lighten up.

 

Just think carefully before you do your own kids such a disservice. Denying your kids the basics of peer-level education such as reading and writing is immoral, and, won't you believe it, illegal in most Western countries.

 

I’ll grant you that is a problem, but what is the alternative? There is no point to going to Rome, it became decadent an age ago... Our only hope is to rectify it by rebuilding Rome here in the pristine uncontaminated environment of this high desert valley and showing it what life can be like when one really enjoys the simple things in life and not just talk about it. In the meantime, within the warmth and company of our (large) family group, my child has a chance to grow up inside the most elegant, intellectual, artistic, humorous, daring, courageous, considerate and spiritual environment any mother could ever wish for. You should see the palace we have built in this wilderness. It is fully connected to the world through the internet and satellite without suffering from the polluted residue. My sons lungs, mind, heart and soul are clean, thank god, and will remain so.

[TheBigDog]

My usually mild-mannered family has surely got hot under the collar on this one. I expect all of them will have something more to add.

I look forward to hearing from each of them.

In the new world order we expect to find people with minds open to new ideas, a deeper sense of decency and a greater sense of humor.

Is "minds open to new ideas" exclusive to your ideas? I have seen no evidence that your own mind is open to any other ideas. You have summarily rejected all ideas out of line with your own that have been brought here.

As to my not being convincing enough about how I view things to come. Historically, new ideas take generations to seat themselves. Resistence, such as I am experiencing, is oxiomatic. It comes with the territory.

You flatter yourself. You have no new ideas. You are a communist. Your idea is communism. You are evasive as hell about it, but that is your idea. It has failed and will fail. You sprinkle it with your own bizzar version of history and wizards and natural law. You emphasize your argument by seeking sympathy or pity for your own struggles in the past, as a distraction from having nothing new being offered. It may be working for you on the compound in the desert where you are isolated enough from society, and manage to avoid participation with those who believe otherwise. You predicted societal evolution is based upon the fact that people will eventually have no personal interests anymore and give themselves totally to the will of society - and you base that on your understanding and faith in human nature. Why? Because a bushkid shared candy with his family? You have written a book, that from what I have read is about how ancient wizards from before the bronze age who were masters of the long lost science of atomic alchemy have secrets they are about to spring on us because, due to our entry into the atomic age, we are mature enough as a society to accept them now. But I only know that because I have gone and read your writings on your sites. I have looked into what the hell you might be saying because you never actually say anything here. Why are you so reluctant to share your ideas in these forums?

As to discontents. I have faith in human nature. Thy will come around eventually. Truth ultimately prevails.

This is a chicken-**** bull-**** copout of an onswer that typifies your contribution to these threads. The vast majority of human history is based upon beliefs that your new world order would deem to be lies, and you just stay blissfully distant from that bold fact. You claim that the core values of humans are going to change, to evolve, but you cannot say why other than that you predict it as an evolutionary imperative. That is just not an adequate explanation. So I will try one more time.

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

And try answering the question this time.

 

Bill

[Strictly_Platonic]

Well hello all of you. My name is Brett and I’m another one of MagnetMan’s daughters and Cat’s (Moonbaby) sister. I was just informed of this thread and what was happening within. Frankly, I thought the reports were exaggerated and came to look for myself. I have found that my family grossly understated what is going on here. I find myself outraged by the comments made within. Not only has my father, my family, and my social upbringing been insulted, but I have been insulted as well. To say with all the resources we have today (you know, the internet) that we would not know whether we were deprived or not I take as an insult to my intelligence. Oh wait, I don’t have intelligence because I couldn’t read 20,000 thousand leagues under the sea when I was 10. But just so you know, 6 months after I learned to read I did read just about every one of the classics, from Jules Verne to James Fennimore Cooper to Mark Twain and Edgar Rice Burroughs. Shortly after I finished those (it took me less than a year to get through some 20 to 30 books and this is after I had only been reading for half a year) I wrote a 150 page novel. Sure, I’ve killed it now, but a year later I wrote one 250 pages long. In that time I went through several books of Greek mythology, several large biographies ranging from Napoleon Bonaparte to Ronald Regan. Oh and, dude, one year after I learned to read and write and all that good stuff, I took a national school test at 7th-8th grade level and you know what? I passed, with flying colors, in all my subjects especially language mechanics and science and I had never opened a science book in my life. All I had learned I had learned from my dad giving us verbal lessons in day to day life. Okay, I’ll be honest. I didn’t pass with flying colors in all my subjects. I flunked spelling in a pretty bad way. There, my skeleton is out for all of you to see.

Now, to address another personal attack on my dad. Him willfully keeping us out of school. Okay, yeah, he’s dead guilty. To an extent. 2 or 3 years after I was introduced to the world of reading, he did send me and three of my other siblings to public school for a couple of days. Yes, just a couple. Why just 2? Well, because we wanted out. You know what was going on in my class room? Kids, two years older than me were jumping off and around their school desk laughing and playing during the time they were supposed to be studying. My siblings and I were the only ones sitting at our desks quietly doing our school work. Its hard to concentrate though when you have twenty kids screaming and laughing around you. So our parents took us out. The best thing that ever happened. Because, you know the worst thing about going to public school was (besides not being able to learn a thing) was being separated from my family. I have two younger siblings that I have helped to take care of since they were but a few months old and now are in the process of learning to read. Scratch that, one already has learned to read, about a year ago if that. In that time she has read two 500 page books and at least three other smaller books of history and several others. And now, she’s writing a book as well. She’s already some seventy pages into it and she only started two months ago, and from what I’ve seen of it so far, her eloquence surpasses me and I’ve been reading and writing for 6-8 years. But I guess we’re still village idiots. :rolleyes:

 

'Superstition' is an artifact of ignorance. But if you can't read or write or do maths, it's probably to be expected. Jeez, Louise...

 

Really? Okay, so you’ve read what I’ve said so far about the reading and all that stuff, right? Okay, so now I’m educated, we’ve settled that. But I still believe that if I do something wrong I will be paid back for it in some sort of way that will make sure I never do it again. Its strange that that you say superstition is ignorance. How many people believe in Karma? That’s what our Tokalosh is, our Karma.

 

Words fail me, again. So you send an illiterate skinhead into the bush to go fend for himself. Why, pray tell? What the hell might be your motivations for this?

 

An illiterate skinhead?! Words cannot grasp how deeply offended I am. I mean, skinhead carries connotations I do not care to have pinned to me, thank you very much. I don’t believe people should be eradicated simply because they have a different religion to mine. Quite the contrary, thank you. And hey, do you know about that comeback in school when one kid calls another a nasty name? Takes one to know one. Makes me think there’s a basis of truth in it. You’re slamming my dad because he believes in something different than you. Well, crucify me next to him.

 

Oh, yes - must be a ripper when you're 14 and you have to read about the bunny and the tortoise. Real intellectual stuff, man. Gimme a break. By that time, being 14, they have lost out on laying the foundations of intellectual development. Neurological patterns are laid down. Take my word for it - they will have a permanent disadvantage in reading and understanding advanced materials. I honestly don't think you're qualified to raise children.

 

Hmm, the bunny and the tortoise. Never read it. So yeah, the first book I read was “Lady and the Tramp”. I stand guilty. But the next thing I read was Jason and the Argonauts. And after that? All those classical authors and other books I mention above. Yeah, Einstein leaves me a little confused and I probably couldn’t read Crime and Punishment if my life depended on it, but pick some one my age out of a crowd and tell me they can. And algebra drives me nuts. Again, give me another teenager my age that really likes doing mathematics.

 

God Almighty. Of course they would want to be 'Global Stewards'. They haven't been exposed to anything else living under your roof. You have raised a bunch of brainwashed, socially maladapted (would members of their peer-group come and visit kids who can't read or write?) kids who have only been exposed to your patronising, arrogant views. I also suspect your kids won't have much to talk about in company. No critique towards them as individuals, of course, but I think you kinda screwed them up for many years to come, still.

 

Well I do say! For guys that want to help the world advance into a new order, you sure aren’t making me want to join with you. I mean, here’s my dad saying he’s got 8 kids wanting to help change the world and you’re calling us a bunch of nuts. I mean, jeez, don’t you want us to be good and try and stop the world from going to pot? Guess not. And about kids in my peer age. When I learned to read and got on the internet, do you want to know what 14 year old boys and girls were talking about? Well, girls were talking about how this other girl got this groovy little skirt and how the boy behind her always pulled her hair in class. Oh wow. Thrilling, intellectual conversation that was. I mean, not one person I talked to had read any one of the classics or anything remotely interesting. And you know, I have 7 siblings, all with their own unique personality and ideas. We always argue and debate things with each other, almost every day. And rarely is there a nasty word thrown in and insults are foreign to us. Yes, I prefer them to others who cannot abide by common decency.

 

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

If an appology is not forth coming, let me remind you, this universe is a small place. We will meet face to face one day.

That a threat? What the hell is wrong with you?

 

Hmm, intimidated by a 65 year old man on the internet. No other comment.

 

I think I’ll leave off here. Hopefully I’ve made my point.

 

(And about my name, I mean the second definition -perfect but unreal: perfect in form or conception but not found in reality- okay, not the other one)

[TheBigDog]

I was going to comment on your amazing resemplance to your father. :rolleyes:

That may be so, but from my present position I am very pleased to have grown up in such a completely unique way. Without knowing me, or how I turned out, how can you make such a prejorative statement? How do you know I haven’t turned out to be the most charming gift to the planet since bubblegum?

Unique solutions work for unique situations. If this worked for you then more power to you. Bubblegum - how appropirate - flavor but no nutrients.

I’ve actually been reading since eleven (puberty started for me then) I can hardly imagine what great tomes I missed out on before then. What were you reading at five? War and Peace? Crime and Punishment? If so, did you understand the underlying rationale? Anybody can read early. Early reading is pure indoctrination… you haven’t enough life experience to qualify what it is you are reading. Don’t you see that you have missed the whole point? Delayed reading was not to keep me away from all the wonderful literature to be read, but to give me an appreciation of words and their meanings and an ability to form an opinion on what I was reading. You are talking about sheer quantity… my dad was talking about quality.

Was it your choice to not read until you were eleven? My 3 year old wants to read. Should I keep books out of his hands until his voice begins to change? The logic that you and your father are using is flawed. The sample size of your family and the relative success in education of the kids is hardly a decisive reason to throw away the education system. For all of its warts and shortcomings it is the result of societal evolution in the effort to produce capable and knowledgable citizens. Be happy for yourselves, but realize that your circomstances are unique, and your results are due to the capabilities of the people involved. (that is a compliment)

First of all my family are my best friends. I was born and raised for the first seven years of my life in a little place called Hollywood. I had many friends growing up in the city, and they are still my good friends all these years later despite our remote location. They come to visit and I have the unique perspective that distance has given me. No I have never been an outcast. While different, people who are open-minded - the only kind that I am willing to associate with - have never seen me as a freak.

Hollywood? Unless you are a Republican you are mainstream there.

Most people on the planet hardly read heavy books… intellectuals remain a rare breed. What am I supposed to catch up to? I revere history, and by unearthing its pre-literate origins my dad has given me the best perspective on how and why literature developed that I have yet to find in any other contemporary analysis of intellectual development. This fundamental understanding puts me ahead of the curve, and makes me more careful of the books I choose to read (and author myself) in the future.

Arrogant eliltist attitudes are not attractive. In general terms, the earlier you learn things the better. There are examples that stand as exceptions to that. But the laws of probability are on the side of earlier is better.

I weigh 115, and if you’re scared of me you should be ashamed of yourself. You need to lighten up.

I don't care your weight, or your gender, or whatever. Threats of physical violence are not called for. Period. I guess this is not the case in your well adjusted and polite, thick skinned, good humored, forward thinking, open minded, elegant, intellectual, artistic, humorous, daring, courageous, considerate and spiritual world.

I’ll grant you that is a problem, but what is the alternative? There is no point to going to Rome, it became decadent an age ago... Our only hope is to rectify it by rebuilding Rome here in the pristine uncontaminated environment of this high desert valley and showing it what life can be like when one really enjoys the simple things in life and not just talk about it. In the meantime, within the warmth and company of our (large) family group, my child has a chance to grow up inside the most elegant, intellectual, artistic, humorous, daring, courageous, considerate and spiritual environment any mother could ever wish for. You should see the palace we have built in this wilderness. It is fully connected to the world through the internet and satellite without suffering from the polluted residue. My sons lungs, mind, heart and soul are clean, thank god, and will remain so.

What aspects of Rome are you pining for exactly? Just go to Vegas. In the mean time, enjoy the compound. Don't lock anybody in. Stay away from the fruit drinks.

 

Bill

[MagnetMan]

Was it your choice to not read until you were eleven? My 3 year old wants to read. Should I keep books out of his hands until his voice begins to change?

 

The only way one can teach a three year old to read is via rote indoctrination. In this way whatever original style of grammatical construction that child might have expressed if its mind had not already been mechnaically processed is lost. Most high school graduates can barely write a legible letter, let alone make it interesting. Ergo, we have a dirth of good poets and essayists. All my kids have written poems and novels already - not because I asked them to - but because of an innate awaking of intellectual delight in using words to make plots and characters come alive as their own creation. The impulse burst out of each of them spontaneously. This is the the ancestral heritage of all of us. This delightful and creative intellectual excersize via writing essays and novels and poems is sadly repressed in most of our school kids. God alone knows how many potentially great writers have we might have suppressed! You might want to think a little more deeper about this before you get your kid automated and purhaps crush forever originality that might be there. I have proved that conventional wisdom is wrong - that late reading is not repressive - but exactly the reverse.

 

The logic that you and your father are using is flawed. The sample size of your family and the relative success in education of the kids is hardly a decisive reason to throw away the education system.

The group is small indeed. But the results have been 100% conclusive despite all and sundry telling me I would end up with illiterate idiots twenty years ago.

 

For all of its warts and shortcomings it is the result of societal evolution in the effort to produce capable and knowledgable citizens.

The implimentation of a compulsory national school system was necessary during the era of nation building and the need for a uniformly literate work force able to build up our national industries and man the mass poduction lines. But that mechanical era is over. We need a vastly more creative and orginal mind on the planet today.

 

I do not know if the self-motivating system I developed for my kids is the best one around. I do know that it takes dual brain development into account and also instills a profound sense of moral self-policing. So its a start at the very least.

 

The very least I expected from this science forum was some constructuive criticism - not derrision.

 

As it stands the current state system produces only 1% of straight A students. 40% drop out entirely before graduation, and of the mediocre rest, many cheat at examainations. What a waste of potential genius. These are stark realities that are bothering tens of thousands of parents who have already withdrawn their kids from the system.

 

Be happy for yourselves, but realize that your circomstances are unique, and your results are due to the capabilities of the people involved. (that is a compliment)

Bill

 

Thanks for the compliment. But the only unique input from the parents has been because we care about their education more than most. The kids imprinted genius and striving for personal excellence surfaced under their own steam under the right encouragement.

 

.

[TheBigDog]

Hmm, intimidated by a 65 year old man on the internet. No other comment.

 

I think I’ll leave off here. Hopefully I’ve made my point.

 

(And about my name, I mean the second definition -perfect but unreal: perfect in form or conception but not found in reality- okay, not the other one)

At the risk of speaking for Mullet, not intimidated, just dismayed. I think your point is that you are well adjusted despite the methods of your education. My congratulations to you.

 

And thanks for the clarification on the name. I was thinking that there was no chance of you putting out. (humor) :hyper: :hihi: :lol:

 

Bill

[TheBigDog]

The only way one can teach a three year old to read is via rote indoctrination. In this way whatever original style of grammatical construction that child might have expressed if its mind had not already been mechnaically processed is lost.

...

You might want to think a little more deeper about this before you get your kid automated and purhaps crush forever originality that might be there. I have proved that conventional wisdom is wrong - that late reading is not repressive - but exactly the reverse.

You can believe this all you want. And you can point to your own methods of educating your children as evidence. But it is absolutely untrue. Children can learn very impressive things at a very early age. Reading is just one of them. The billions of examples in history that do not fall into your model must be aboritions - rather than the other way around. Besides, I want my kids to learn correct english and grammar. They can be creative with it after they have proven mastery of the essentials. My wife and I determine the essentials for our kids. I am allowed to hold them to higher standards than the school system, much to their chagrin.

 

When given advice opposite to what you are preaching you take it as an insult. How should I take your advice to me? How should I consider your arrogant presumption that I have not contemplated the education of my children? I am confident that teaching #4 to read when he want to read is the best thing for him. I remember my own experience, the experience of my older children, the studying on the topic I have done, the observations I have made through a lifetime. All of them add up to encouraging his impulse to learn to read at any time he appears to be willing.

The group is small indeed. But the results have been 100% conclusive despite all and sundry telling me I would end up with illiterate idiots twenty years ago.

Congratulations.

The implimentation of a compulsory national school system was necessary during the era of nation building and the need for a uniformly literate work force able to build up our national industries and man the mass poduction lines. But that mechanical era is over. We need a vastly more creative and orginal mind on the planet today.

You are far removed from the reality I see every day. We are in a service economy. Feeding that supply chain of services requires expertise at all levels. Life is a competition. Education prepares you to win in the battle for better jobs. It can also help you win in the battle to "build a better mousetrap". The world needs ditch diggers too. If that is all a person is willing or capable to accell to, that is what they get. We are adding life changing technologies every day. But we are not changing people or ambition - they remain the same.

I do not know if the self-motivating system I developed for my kids is the best one around. I do know that it takes dual brain development into account and also instills a profound sense of moral self-policing. So its a start at the very least.

 

The very least I expected from this science forum was some constructuive criticism - not derrision.

If you don't know if it the best, then why do you preach it as the only alternative? You come off so arrogant that you are unbearable. Constructive critisizm? You have been getting it since you got here. You arrogantly brush it off as misguided old fashioed brainwashed preachings, or ignore it when it hits a raw nerve. It turns into derrison because you are a troll trying to pedal your wares and you have absolutly no intention of actually debating anything.

As it stands the current state system produces only 1% of straight A students. 40% drop out entirely before graduation, and of the mediocre rest, many cheat at examainations. What a waste of potential genius. These are stark realities that are bothering tens of thousands of parents who have already withdrawn their kids from the system.

What is your point, aside from preaching innaccurate statistics?

Thanks for the compliment. But the only unique input from the parents has been because we care about their education more than most. The kids imprinted genius and striving for personal excellence surfaced under their own steam under the right encouragement.

Again, congratulations. But because this has worked for you does not mean that it should be recommended to the general public. I was a show one time about a snake charmer in India. He had a King Cobra that he treated like a housepet. It roamed freely around the house and the yard. He hand fer it. In the show it was crawwling around on the laps of his small children. He was convinced that this was the normal way of things, and that it was important for his children to develop that relationship with snakes. They may turn out to be fine snake charmers like their father. Should I get a King Cobra for my house because it appeared to be working for him? That is why your experience with your 8 kids is insufficient to establish a model for all humanity, or to make broad judgements about every other method of education in the world.

 

Now, once again I will pose this question...

 

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

How long will you evade this question? What is so troubling about trying to answer it?

 

Bill

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

 

 

As to dissodents. I have faith in human nature. They will come around eventually. Truth ultimately prevails.

 

This is a chicken-**** bull-**** copout of an onswer that typifies your contribution to these threads. The vast majority of human history is based upon beliefs that your new world order would deem to be lies, and you just stay blissfully distant from that bold fact. You claim that the core values of humans are going to change, to evolve, but you cannot say why other than that you predict it as an evolutionary imperative. That is just not an adequate explanation. So I will try one more time.

How long will you evade this question? What is so troubling about trying to answer it?Bill

You have accused me repeatedly of rejecting any answer that I do not like. How about yourself? I had no trouble in answering it when you first asked it. What more would you like me to say that will satisfy you?

 

I have listed the logical sequence of evolutionary changes several times on various threads. I have even posted diagrams. I never said that our core values would change. Personal integrity, family and extended family values will always underpin human consciousness. I said that nationalism and capitalism and religious scripture, just like clanism and a farm-based economy and totemic worship in the past, would become passe - become part of our history - that those artificial Old Age values wil not play in the new world paradigm. In this new view an egalitarian global society, all working together to steward the home planet as a single family estate will be an evolutionary imperative. The individual does not become lost in this Nuclear Age of common effort - but infinitely empowered by the vast challenges placed on each of our unique gifts put towards a common goal that benefits high and low equally.

If my view of how this sequence plays out proves to be false, then so be it. At least it is a noble view. What more can I say? That I don't believe my own positive impression of the common responce to goodness in human nature, given the right encouragement? Am I not allowed to hold this view or try to share it because it does not agree with yours? Maybe if you spell out exactly what I am supposed to say, you will remove my present confusion.