MagnetMan Posted March 30, 2006 Report Posted March 30, 2006 I am researching Family Values for a documentary film. I will be posting several threads that explore this subject. It would be helpful if you contribute to this research with your views on incest. If you could preface your view with a Y or an N to signify that you have personal experience, that would be even more helpful. Incest is decreed by State laws as a crime. To most it is seen as a despicable sexual act. There is no census on how many children are the product of incest. But it surely is in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. While the problem lies as skeletons hiding in our cultural closet, all those thousands of young lives are lived in shame and as lies. The question is: If incest is entirely natural, in fact the way human evolution began, and was once openly practiced by Royalty, and to some extent still, is, and is used by breeders to obtain highly pedigreed offspring - why is incest considered to be a social crime? Can the children of incestuous family relationships be allowed to come out of the closet and reveal their family secret and lead a decent life without suffering from social stigma? Or shall we keep the closet locked and refuse to assess the damage?
InfiniteNow Posted March 30, 2006 Report Posted March 30, 2006 All life stems from the same source and is all highly related. The fact that there are laws does nothing to strengthen your point. Even animals in the wild tend not to breed with close relatives unless no other options exist for offspring furtherance. While certain mutations are beneficial for a given environment, most just lead to negative genetic outcomes. You wanna screw your sister? Well, if she wants to do the same to you, then all the power to you both. That's what natural selection is for.
Cedars Posted March 30, 2006 Report Posted March 30, 2006 I am researching Family Values for a documentary film. I will be posting several threads that explore this subject. Could you post a credible link to allow people here to research your documentary history and allow persons to decide whether your objective is objective?
MagnetMan Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Posted April 3, 2006 Could you post a credible link to allow people here to research your documentary history and allow persons to decide whether your objective is objective?You are quite at liberty, as are all others, not to contribute to this thread. Not even God can be purely objective when documenting the vagaries of human behavior.
InfiniteNow Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 Not even God can be purely objective when documenting the vagaries of human behavior.What else can't god do? :cup:
MagnetMan Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Posted April 3, 2006 What else can't god do? :cup:He cannot understand why incest has been stgmatized. Who did it? What for? How do we resolve the plight of millions of families who cannot reveal their true identity? Is keeping it in the closet the best policy?
Racoon Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 Magnet Man brings up some good points, both here and in other threads, But I fail to see how Incest is a 'Family Value' :cup: Value (n.): 1) that for which is something is regarded as useful or desirable.
MagnetMan Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Posted April 3, 2006 But I fail to see how Incest is a 'Family Value' :cup: Value (n.): 1) that for which is something is regarded as useful or desirable. Incest is not unnatural. Therefore outlawing it is the result of an opinion. Who declared it to be socially undesirable? What is the rationale behind that opinion? Millions of families live a lie because of the stigma attached to incest. Can these familes never be allowed to live normal lives?
Pyrotex Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 ...But I fail to see how Incest is a 'Family Value' ...Well, today it is certainly not a mainstream Family Value. But if we look back into the depths of archeo-time... time... time... Lot's daughters get their "just and righteous" father drunk, and have sexual intercourse with him, and each conceives and bears a son. Gen 19:30-38No moral injunction or criticism is levied. However, by the time of the writing of Numbers 27, screwing around with your sisters or your mother is a serious offense--but I could not find any indication that making happy with your daughters or sons was in the same category. See the Skeptics Annotated Bible:http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex/long.htm
Pyrotex Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 Incest is not unnatural. ...the stigma attached to incest. Can these familes never be allowed to live normal lives?Dear Magneto Dude,I just cannot see any connection between statements like this and your original goal, which was to make a documentary. If there were, then your questions would be FAR more specific and to the point. But they aren't. Your questions and comments are very vague and general and all-inclusive.The big problem is, there exists a sexual subculture that considers incest to be extremely erotic. Can you say anything that would assure us that your intentions here are noble?
InfiniteNow Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 He cannot understand why incest has been stgmatized. Who did it? What for? How do we resolve the plight of millions of families who cannot reveal their true identity? Is keeping it in the closet the best policy?Sounds like your god is a wuss. What kind of all powerful being:1) has gender specific pronoun2) cannot understand something... anything at all? As for your other questions, you're so missing the bigger picture here.
MagnetMan Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Posted April 3, 2006 Dear Magneto Dude,I just cannot see any connection between statements like this and your original goal, which was to make a documentary. If there were, then your questions would be FAR more specific and to the point. But they aren't. Your questions and comments are very vague and general and all-inclusive.The big problem is, there exists a sexual subculture that considers incest to be extremely erotic. Can you say anything that would assure us that your intentions here are noble? My nobility extends back for thousands of generations. My concern is with the children who have no choice in this matter. Incest is a reality. Stigmatizing it, in my opinion, does not help the problem. I am asking what you think should be done about it. It is obvious what I think. But my view is worthless alone. The only view that is worth while documenting is that of a majority consensus. Right now I do not know if the majority even knows why it is against it. The issue has remained out of sight as far as I know. This fact intersts me professdionally as well as morally. Your two cents worth together with that of others eventually and hopefully adds up to something that I can report on. Sounds like your god is a wuss. What kind of all powerful being:1) has gender specific pronoun2) cannot understand something... anything at all? He may be a wuss but I don't think so.I know He is a he because I know who my Mother Goddess is.If He understood all things, He would have gotten bored long ago. As for your other questions, you're so missing the bigger picture here. Do tell. I'd hate to miss the main show.
Pyrotex Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 My nobility extends back for thousands of generations. My concern is with the children who have no choice in this matter. Incest is a reality. Stigmatizing it, in my opinion, does not help the problem. I am asking what you think should be done about it. ....Okay. This is sounding just a tad messianic, but I'll risk an answer or two.We have de-criminilized being a "bastard" -- being born of an unwed mother.We should do the same for children who are the product of incest. There is no reason at all that they should suffer in any way for something so far out of their control.On the flip side, I still believe that any sex with children (incest or otherwise) is wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter how precocious or physically mature they may or may not be. You do the crime, you do the time.
Tormod Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 You are quite at liberty, as are all others, not to contribute to this thread. Not even God can be purely objective when documenting the vagaries of human behavior. This response is dodgy. Cedars is in her right to ask for any kind of documentation that you are actually working on a project. You questions are provocative, and you yourself says so. Whether someone contributes or not is not up to you. Please provide us with some more information about your project before you take this discussion further. Why are you doing it, and what is the aim of the project?
MagnetMan Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Posted April 3, 2006 Please provide us with some more information about your project before you take this discussion further. Why are you doing it, and what is the aim of the project? Let me requote an answer already posted. My concern is with the children who have no choice in this matter. Incest is a reality. Stigmatizing it, in my opinion, does not help the problem. I am asking what you think should be done about it. It is obvious what I think. But my view is worthless alone. The only view that is worth while documenting is that of a majority consensus. Right now I do not know if the majority even knows why it is against it. The issue has remained out of sight as far as I know. This fact intersts me professdionally as well as morally. Your two cents worth together with that of others eventually and hopefully adds up to something that I can report on. What I do with it, should I decide to go ahead with massive expense of poducing it, depends on the station might be interested. Right now, unless I see some definate pattern emerging, the dispirit views are not worth broadcasting
pgrmdave Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 I don't think that consensual incest is morally wrong in the same way that murder, or rape, is wrong. However, I do think it is wrong in that should a child be produced, that child has a much greater chance of having a genetic disorder. I understand that I am not entirely consistent in my views, in that I wouldn't bar two people with the same genetic disorder from copulating, but I think that it is reasonable to expect that people would look outside their own family for erotic love.
InfiniteNow Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 He may be a wuss but I don't think so.I know He is a he because I know who my Mother Goddess is.If He understood all things, He would have gotten bored long ago. Glad to hear you have such a personal relationship with god. In all HIS glory... like he's some humanoid creature. :hihi: Do tell. I'd hate to miss the main show.Explained already in the first response of this thread.
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