Atheism and Faith

[infamous]

Already answered please reread my previous posts.

In post #48 you state:

 

"I am an atheist

My beliefs are:

there is not god

there will never be a god

god existence is impossible."

 

I respectfully contend that these statements are nothing more than opinions, no more, no less.

 

To make the statement: "there is not god, there will never be a god" requires some facts to back up these assertions. Just like the believer, you also have no facts with which to prove your case. You could claim to be the King of England but without a crown, your claim is just that, only a claim.........Infy

[ughaibu]

Is anyone going to explain why they believe?

Questor, you opened the thread, you've had plenty of response, where's your contribution?

[Rsade]

Is anyone going to explain why they believe?

 

I believe in a creator because it is more logicial than the universe coming from "nothing" and then there is that pesky cause thing...

[ughaibu]

Rsade: Are you saying that there was a time in which you held no belief or tendency towards a belief but when wondering about the origins of the universe, you decided that from among the various possible explanations, including 'no explanation', a creator, aka god, was the most satisfying solution from the point of view of logic?

Where does the "cause" bit come in? Were you contentedly not-believing away until you heard the cosmological argument, and this convinced you of god's reality?

[C1ay]

Because Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed intellect

that is conscious of knowing God; not the material sphere of knowledge

of the fact-discerning mind. Truth, therefore, is an experience of the soul;

knowledge is a possession of the mind.

Please quote your source. According to my sources:

 

truth Pronunciation Key (trth) n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)

1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. 
   
3. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
   
   
4. Sincerity; integrity.
   
   
5. Fidelity to an original or standard.

Reality; actuality.

often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.

Main Entry: truth

Pronunciation: 'trüth

Function: noun

1 a archaic : FIDELITY, CONSTANCY b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance

2 a (1) : the state of being the case : FACT (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : ACTUALITY (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics> c : the body of true statements and propositions

3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality b chiefly British : TRUE 2 c : fidelity to an original or to a standard

4 capitalized, Christian Science : GOD

truth

• noun (pl. truths /trooths, troo&ulth;z/) 1 the quality or state of being true. 2 (also the truth) that which is true as opposed to false. 3 a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

None of them limit truth to the faithful. Until such time that you can show that you are a higher authority, I'll take their definitions over yours.

[questor]

Ugh, i have had little to say on this post because i wanted to hear what others had to say. most of the replies here do not really address the question being asked. my attempt was to find what thought process induced one to be atheist or a believer in God. you posted the most comprehensive reply, in my opinion. my own view is that i do not believe in God, Allah, Jehovah or any other dieties as man conceives them. i think the Bible is the greatest work of literature ever written, but was written by man-not a deity.

i do believe that the universe was created by intelligent design, or an intelligent creator. my reasons for this are in my opening post on ''Creationism, Logical or Illogical''. this creator is not in man's image or interested in man's struggles or his daily life. while not creating the figure of man as a finished being, he created all the necesssities for the eventual appearance of man on the earth. this creator does not have human appearance or needs or emotions. it is a force or being that comprises natural law and the primary forces of the universe. the underlying cause of all things, the reasons the universe and all in it came to be and is able to exist, will only be understood when the nature of the creator is understood.

i believe this is not the Final Theory, but the Final Answer to all the questions we discuss that we cannot answer.

[ughaibu]

Questor: Okay, thanks. In a nutshell, your reason for believing is that your solution explains various circumstances that have no uncontrovertable explanation(?)

[questor]

Ugh, i have made it plain and clear i do not believe in God as presented by religion. i do believe there was and is intelligent creation, and yes, it does explain all things.

[Rebiu]

In post #48 you state:

 

"I am an atheist

My beliefs are:

there is not god

there will never be a god

god existence is impossible."

 

I respectfully contend that these statements are nothing more than opinions, no more, no less.

 

To make the statement: "there is not god, there will never be a god" requires some facts to back up these assertions. Just like the believer, you also have no facts with which to prove your case. You could claim to be the King of England but without a crown, your claim is just that, only a claim.........Infy

Atheism is not a belief. It is the belief that requires evidence. There is absolutely no evidence of a god in any conventional sense. You position is that I cannot disprove god and therefore it has the same probability of being true. The problem is this reasoning can be applied to any idea and it will validate any idea that is sufficiently vague to defy testing. If you wish to present a real position you must define what you mean by "God" and present some kind of understanding as to his nature, capacity and limitations. When you do this the evidence against you position will pile up with every statement.

[infamous]

Atheism is not a belief. It is the belief that requires evidence.

You state, "It is belief that requires evidence."

 

Now to reiterate; In post #48 you state, "I am an atheist, "My beliefs are": You then state: "There is not god, there will never be a god"

 

According to your own words; "My beliefs are..................It is the belief that requires evidence". So I'm kindly asking you for evidence that; "There is not god, there will never be a god".

 

Your own words my friend, your own words......................Infy

[Rsade]

Rsade: Are you saying that there was a time in which you held no belief or tendency towards a belief but when wondering about the origins of the universe, you decided that from among the various possible explanations, including 'no explanation', a creator, aka god, was the most satisfying solution from the point of view of logic?

Where does the "cause" bit come in? Were you contentedly not-believing away until you heard the cosmological argument, and this convinced you of god's reality?

 

No, close , but not exactly! I believed on faith ,that the universe had a beginning, and is going to have an end, even before the big bang theory was advanced as THE THEORY!

 

Many scientists, before the big bang came to the front ,thought that the universe may be static, i.e. eternal or (that) it had always existed. Einstein wanted to believe this.

 

But I accepted ON FAITH, that the universe was created , and had a beginning (and will “end“). The science dudes just happened to stumble onto the big bang theory , and that theory agreed with my faith!

 

I am, even now, “believing away” as I type this....

 

God or a creator is simply a more logical a belief system than the pure blind faith in the religion of science.

 

BTW I love science, especially cosmology and astronomy.

 

As I (and others) have said nothing begins to exist without cause.Ahhh' that would include our universe.

[Edella]

No

 

God or a creator is simply a more logical a belief system than the pure blind faith in the religion of science.

 

BTW I love science, especially cosmology and astronomy.

 

What brought you to the "pure blind faith" that is the "religion of science?"Does your faith in cosmology ever clash with your faith in God?

[ughaibu]

Rsade: In that case, you have yet to answer Questor's question. If rephrased as 'what is the cause of your belief?' you might find it more accessible.

[Eclogite]

What brought you to the pure blind faith that is the religion of science?

I really cannot let this uneducated and therefore ignorant, deliberately provocative comment pass without a suitable retort: please, Edella, cite a single instance of pure blind faith within science that was not subsequently fully and rigorously validated by the experimental method.

 

One or more theists in this thread are taking the position that atheism and science are equivalent. Poppycock! They then seek to equate science with religion, in regard to the alleged presence of faith in both. More poppycock! From where I sit such arguments have the appearance of either gross ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. They do not serve to advance the discussion, but introduce gross distortions of the truth, that benefit no one.

[Edella]

Originally Posted by Edella

What brought you to the pure blind faith that is the religion of science?

It was sarcasm .I forgot to put quotes around "pure blind faith"and"religion of science". Atheism and science are certainly not the same,nor do I think science is blind faith.Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Eclogite]

Ah. That makes much more sense. That's the problem with sarcasm and irony, they don't always come across too clearly. Still, it gave me a chance to have a little rant, so thanks for that. [That was resigned, self deprecating humour, not sarcasm.:) ]

[InfiniteNow]

As I (and others) have said nothing begins to exist without cause.Ahhh' that would include our universe.

Causality has been challenged and the studies repeatedly confirmed which violate Bell's theorem, or put another way, confirm quantum nonlocality. Just fyi...