Piezoelectric earth

[Turtle]

This may all relate to claims of UFO/strange light sitings ove Mt. Adams in Washington State over the last several years. I have mined in the area for more than a decade & the geology is certainly rich enough to produce piezo-electric effects on a large scale.

[FrankM]

When I started this thread I thought that the piezoelectric effect was the cause for "earth currents", but after broaching the subject on more than one forum I got an education in what is going on in the earth sciences. It has been demonstrated in laboratory tests that the primary mechanism for "earth currents" is not piezoelectric but due to positive charge carriers, ie: rock exhibits semi-conductor characteristics under pressure.

 

http://www.elfrad.com/FF_iSTEP_2004.pdf

 

The massive release of positive charge carriers creates a large earth surface charge that is positive relative to the ionosphere, just opposite the normal condition. The DEMETER satellite is now detecting this change in the ionosphere over earthquakes, plus detecting the electromagnetic pulse generated by the earth current.

 

http://smsc.cnes.fr/DEMETER/

 

Active seismic areas are emitting constant non-periodic signals that are being detected as a "hiss" by the satellite. The satellite has plotted this "hiss" and it maps the earths seismic regions.

 

http://smsc.cnes.fr/DEMETER/GP_actualite.htm

 

The massive charge sheet created during an earthquake creates earth-air potentials that can help explain some of the "unusual atmospheric phenomena" that is sometimes seen in association with earthquakes.

[IrishEyes]

It's nice to see you back again, Frank. Please feel free to share more of what you've learned. We're always happy to get an education in new subjects... :)

[FrankM]

When Hertz did his experiments many years ago, he demonstrated that a pulse of electricity through a wire could be detected at a distance. The "charge sheet" and associated current created during a seismic event is somewhat like a current pulse in a wire, as it generates an electric field that can be detected at a distance. The earth-ionosphere connection creates an interesting condition that complicates matters significantly. When the area of the seismic event goes "positive" the ionosphere above it goes "negative", which indicates a field reversal. This field reversal is not a nice sine wave pulse, but is dictated by the seismic event period with all its intensity variations.

 

The DEMETER sateillite is sensing electromagnetic pulses, but is this from the in-earth currents or from the earth-ionosphere field reversal?

 

Various types of ground instruments are picking up ultra-low frequency pulses also, some using traditional sensing coils and others "earth antennas". Unlike the DEMETER satellite, that uses 3-axis sensing coils, the vast majority of the ground sensors are single axis (this includes the majority of ULF/ELF afficionados) and those using "earth antennas" (they take a lot of real estate).

 

Many of the traditional seismologists are still using sensors that detect only "mechanical" seismic changes and are slow to recognize (many ignore) the electrically dynamic characteristics of seismic events.

 

We have a lot to learn.

[Turtle]

Can/do these charges produce light/plasma balls ?

[FrankM]

Yes, and more.

 

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF0/083.html

 

The above is an old report but I have some current ones that I will add to this post.

[Turtle]

Thanks Frank for that link. If you remember I brought this up because lights in the sky over the last few years have been reported & photographed in video over Mt. Adams Washington in the area of a small town named Trout Lake. The gentleman who made some of the tapes thinks they are UFOs; I will look to see if I can find a link with the video.

I also believe I read something concerning lights in the Smoky Mountains seen for centuries now attribute to electrical effects due to the geology. Fascinating stuff. :hyper:

[alexander]

Yeah, nice article Frank, I actually stopped watching this topic a while back, but I'm sure we can continue if you want to.

When Hertz did his experiments many years ago, he demonstrated that a pulse of electricity through a wire could be detected at a distance.

And that allows for one of the ways to spy on somebody elses computer, as different processes within the processor and the motherboard take different ammounts of power, and different signals to the monitor have different pulses of electricity, having about a van of equipnemt you can have a completely separate computer do, or at lest display all the things that are displayed on your targets computer.

Back to the topic though, Earthquake lights have been countlessly reported throughout the history:

http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa032299.htm

pictures: http://www.earthwaves.org/eqlight.htm

attempt at duplicating them: http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nqlights.htm

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf074/sf074g14.htm

ball lightning: http://www.ernmphotography.com/Pages/Ball_Lightning/BL_Info_11.html

 

Report on the 5th International Symposium on Ball Lightning (ISBL97)

held on August 26-29, 1997, in Tsugawa-Town, Japan.

http://home.wxs.nl/~icblsec/isbl99/pg_report.html

 

there's more but i think this is enough to show somewhat strange light phenomena that happens before the earthquake strikes.

[FrankM]

http://www.scec.org/instanet/01news/es_abstracts/ouzounov_freund.pdf

 

I cited the above URL in my August 8, 04 posting, which discusses the mechanism that creates the electrical charge during an earthquake. The real tragedy is the number of seismologists that hang on to the old theories and are unwilling or unable to grasp the significance of the "electrical" mechanisms related to earthquakes.

 

The studies presented by Friedemann Freund indicate that the massive release of positive charge carriers results in a large surface area around the seismic event rapidly going positive, which in effect is modulating the earth-ionosphere electric field immediately above this area. This may be the major process generating the electromagnetic field that is being detected by ULF/ELF receivers.

[Turtle]

... The real tragedy is the number of seismologists that hang on to the old theories and are unwilling or unable to grasp the significance of the "electrical" mechanisms related to earthquakes.

 

The studies presented by Friedemann Freund indicate that the massive release of positive charge carriers results in a large surface area around the seismic event rapidly going positive, which in effect is modulating the earth-ionosphere electric field immediately above this area. This may be the major process generating the electromagnetic field that is being detected by ULF/ELF receivers.

 

As we have a recent article here about quakes on the moon, I thought Frank's piezoelectric effects described here. So of course I have to ask, has anyone measured piezoelectric effects on the Moon related to quakes? Have you looked at this in regard to the Moon Frank [et al]?

http://hypography.com/forums/astronomy-news/5809-moonquakes.html

[Turtle]

Yes, and more.

 

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF0/083.html

 

The above is an old report but I have some current ones that I will add to this post.

 

The topic of recommended threads to read came up in the Cooler (or somewhere nearby), & this is one thread I find myself rereading. I live in a seismically active region & reports of possible piezo-electric effects originate nearby at Trout Lake in the area of Mt. Adams Washington.

Squeeze a rock...get an electric charge. Apply an electric charge to a rock...it expands.

Anyway, I find this topic fascinating & recommend it.:confused: :shrug:

[FrankM]

As we have a recent article here about quakes on the moon, I thought Frank's piezoelectric effects described here. So of course I have to ask, has anyone measured piezoelectric effects on the Moon related to quakes? Have you looked at this in regard to the Moon Frank [et al]?

http://hypography.com/forums/astronomy-news/5809-moonquakes.html

 

No, I haven't read about moonquakes. The article cited the duration of the vibrations generated by a moonquake as compared to earthquakes. It does not appear the moon has a central magna core, which in the earth acts a bit like silly putty. I suggest one take a golf ball and replace the core with silly putty and then see how far you can wack it.

 

As mentioned in the prior posts, piezoelectric action is not the primary mechanism for generating electrical charge generation in rock under extreme pressure. Since this action was not understood more than 5 years ago, NASA hadn't developed instrumentation to detect surface charge changes caused by moonquakes or even for earthquakes. The NASA researcher, Friedemann Freund, has suggested a network of surface charge detectors be deployed to identify charges being generated in an earthquake prone area, California.

 

Traditional seismologists are still depending upon mechanical sensors to detect earthquake action even though they have never been able to determine an impending earthquake with any degree of certainty. As with any new concept, the old school will be reluctant to change, as many are ill prepared cope with radical (to them) electromagnetic technology used in detecting earthquake pre-cursors.

[FrankM]

In 2004 I had posted information about earth conductivity in an attempt to find out more about just what mechanisms are causing this. Since that earlier post I had found the articles about p-hole conductivity in deep rock and how the charges created by earthquakes are detectable at the earth's surface and in the ionosphere.

 

I had made inquires to academic sources concerning a statement made in many publications concerning outdoor activity, "mines and caves are dangerous during thunderstorms". I wanted to know if the potentials within caves and mines had ever been measured. An academic source at a school of mines responded, "No, this has never been done."

 

A spelunker, I do not know his scientific credentials or what his day job is, published a report in National Speleological Society publication commenting on the results of an earlier study, but I have yet to find anyone that has followed up on determining the natural of the unusual results. The title of his report is “GEOPHYSICAL STUDIES AT KARTCHNER CAVERNS STATE PARK, ARIZONA”. The pdf article is just 8k.

 

http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V62/v62n1-Green.pdf

 

Apparently, the area above underground voids exhibits an increased electric potential relative to solid areas. I want to know if this changes appreciably when there are thunderstorms overhead or nearby.

[Turtle]

No, I haven't read about moonquakes. The article cited the duration of the vibrations generated by a moonquake as compared to earthquakes. It does not appear the moon has a central magna core, which in the earth acts a bit like silly putty. I suggest one take a golf ball and replace the core with silly putty and then see how far you can wack it.

 

As mentioned in the prior posts, piezoelectric action is not the primary mechanism for generating electrical charge generation in rock under extreme pressure. Since this action was not understood more than 5 years ago, NASA hadn't developed instrumentation to detect surface charge changes caused by moonquakes or even for earthquakes. The NASA researcher, Friedemann Freund, has suggested a network of surface charge detectors be deployed to identify charges being generated in an earthquake prone area, California.

 

Traditional seismologists are still depending upon mechanical sensors to detect earthquake action even though they have never been able to determine an impending earthquake with any degree of certainty. As with any new concept, the old school will be reluctant to change, as many are ill prepared cope with radical (to them) electromagnetic technology used in detecting earthquake pre-cursors.

 

That golf ball idea might make a big seller at the prank shop Frank! :shrug:

So I went back and re-read this link you gave:

http://www.scec.org/instanet/01news/es_abstracts/ouzounov_freund.pdf

Because the positive holes turn any rock momentarily into a pure p-type semiconductor [King and Freund, 1984],

the charge carriers will propagate outward from their source volume. When they intersect the surface of the Earth, the

ground potential is expected to become highly positive [Freund and Liu, 2000].

In a sense the thread title is outdated then, correct? Because piezo-electric effect is peculiar to only certain minerals whereas the electric effect you describe may occur in any rock type?

What instrument is suitable to measure the currents near & in caves? I have lava tube caves in my area.:cup: Thanks for keeping in touch Frank.:shrug:

[FrankM]

In a sense the thread title is outdated then, correct?

 

The thread title was valid when it was first started, the knowledge about p-hole activity came about while researching "earth conductivity" issues. P-hole activity can occur in rock that contains no quartz, but unless the rock is pure quartz P-hole activity could be present at the same time piezoelectric action occurs (wonder how one would measure that?).

 

What instrument is suitable to measure the currents near & in caves? I have lava tube caves in my area.

 

I have posed that question to some of my correspondents whether "field mills" would be suitable for detecting the differences in the electric potential at the surface over voids. They are the only device that I know of that senses the potential of an electric field without an interconnection. It is the instrument of choice for measuring the relative electric field intensity at the earth's surface and in the atmosphere. I was told by a Professor of Earth Sciences that the potentials in caves and mines had never been measured, so what instrument is suitable there is not known. I suspect a field mill or similar differential detector device would have to be used.

 

Anytime you run a wire from the surface into an underground cavity it will disrupt the natural field, thus battery operated devices would have to be used to measure and record information. As noted in my previous post, there are few reports on the subject of measuring potential differences over underground voids.

[Turtle]

I have posed that question to some of my correspondents whether "field mills" would be suitable for detecting the differences in the electric potential at the surface over voids.

Anytime you run a wire from the surface into an underground cavity it will disrupt the natural field, thus battery operated devices would have to be used to measure and record information. As noted in my previous post, there are few reports on the subject of measuring potential differences over underground voids.

I searched 'field mill' as I didn't know that device & I found plans for building one.

http://www.precisionstrobe.com/jc/fieldmill/fieldmill.html

I have a small multimeter & I thought one lead grounded & the other as an

aerial? Just thinking out loud. I will look over the field mill plans & description in more detail. Thanks as always Frank.:confused:

[Racoon]

http://www.scec.org/instanet/01news/es_abstracts/ouzounov_freund.pdf

 

Because piezo-electric effect is peculiar to only certain minerals whereas the electric effect you describe may occur in any rock type?

What instrument is suitable to measure the currents near & in caves?

 

Maybe true Turtle,

 

But with the link you provided, are you also perhaps suggesting a correlation of Lightening activity and Seismic activity? :confused:

 

Just Curious,

while Looking for the next trash can to scavange! :shrug: