Annex Mexico!

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Believes?

 

Goodness, they are the aristocracy! Or the patricians, or the nobility, or whatever you might call it. Works differently, based on different resources, but it's the same thing it boils down to.

Not in my mind. They have a job to do and I wish they'd get it finished. 200+ years and the accomplishments are few and far between. But the pipeline draining both resources and effort keeps getting bigger and bigger and the returns are less and less. It is becoming downright parasitic.

[Qfwfq]

In the terms of historians, they're the ruling class.

 

They spend millions campaigning and it's worth the try to them because they have plenty interests to look after.

[Racoon]

How would annexing Mexico affect wages??

 

I think they would go up in Mexico, some.

But remain the same or go down in the United States.

 

What were the reasons behind so many factories moving down South of the Rio Grande? Los Maquiladores?

 

How would that affect prices of manufactured goods? Part of the reason its cheaper to make there is due to de-regulation of environmental policies and "quirky" tax laws

 

Like in the book "Grapes of Wrath", when there is surplus labor, the price for it goes down.

 

Wages go down, prices go up. :D

People get pissed.

Resentment ensues.

 

Would regular Americans be willing to sacrifice enough to bring up the living standards of 90 million Mexicans??

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Qfwfq: I don't think you're alone in your perspective - but I don't share it.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the United States was conceived to get rid of the aristocracy/ruling class.

 

We're supposed to be a country where 'the law' applies the same to all and no one is above it. (Har). The degradation of 'eternal vigilance' is caused by people abdicating responsibility of their life to the government (a fool's decision).

 

The Wright Brothers, in my mind, were the epitomy of what the United States was/is/should-be all about. And to protect those folks from interference should be the prime directive of our government because, in my mind, Orville and Wilbur were the 'common man'. If the United States has an aristocracy, they were in it whether they knew it or not.

 

And, there was no pretense about them. Lying was not their stock-in-trade.

 

The last people that should be in the aristocracy are the politicians.

[Qfwfq]

I understand what you mean but it's largely a matter of slapping labels onto things, or of seeing beyond the labels.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the United States was conceived to get rid of the aristocracy/ruling class.

It was the bourgeoisie escaping the aristocracy. This does not mean getting rid of the ruling class, there will never be a society without it, there can simply be tighter or looser boundaries.

 

The aristocratic system dating back to Charlemagne was fairly water-tight and, in later centuries, as the craftsmen of the townships became a stronger and stronger class of entrepreneurs called the "bourgeoisie" (French for the "town people") along with the merchants, they were faced with limitations of political power. It was a major contention between what were then the ruling and the middle class, most of the aristocracy clung to its superiority for quite a long time, the contention became harsh with use of repression, that's why the masonry was such an underground thing.

 

I'm simplifying greatly, the Catholic clergy had also become much akin to an aristocracy, and the common rabble had many reasons to be on the side of the bourgeoisie especially as the Enlightenment philosophy underlying the protests considered all men born free and equal. Without the utter rage of the man in the street, the storming of the Bastille would never have pulled of the way it did, think what that and all the rest must have taken. Much easier it was for the patriots in the several states to recruit some of the working class to shoot the British soldiers, in the new world which had been colonized more by the merchants, farmers and entrepreneurs anyway and the aristocratic authority was more of a formality. The Cotton Belt did remain de facto somewhat aristocratic too, especially before abolition.

 

We're supposed to be a country where 'the law' applies the same to all and no one is above it. (Har). The degradation of 'eternal vigilance' is caused by people abdicating responsibility of their life to the government (a fool's decision).

Quite true, including the Har.

 

Orville and Wilbur were the 'common man'. If the United States has an aristocracy, they were in it whether they knew it or not.

AFAIK they were factory owners. They were ruling class.

 

The last people that should be in the aristocracy are the politicians.

Call it aristocracy or what you will, they're the ruling class, along with all those that significantly support them such as lobbies, benefactors etc.

 

Now, in the democracies that emerged from the Enlightenment, the classes are certainly less watertight. The odd labourer might strike it rich, the odd crooner might become one of the richest guys in the world and even prime minister of Italy... but also see doubts cast across the way he built his fortunes; the odd computer nerd might become Uncle Bill... wait, but his mah was very influential in IBM and helped him, OK, a couple of computer nerds might sell an old Volkswagen and found Apple. Still, a homeless bum on a NYC sidewalk doesn't count as much as Kerry, or DeLay and Abrahmoff before the recent scandals, despite their equal right to cast a ballot.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Qfwfq:

AFAIK they were factory owners. They were ruling class.

(as far as I know?)...well, they started out with a bycicle shop not a factory. After their success at Kitty Hawk, maybe.

I produce software for telephone company billing. My factory is my mind, my computer and my office (at home). Am I a member of the ruling class?

I trade that part of me for money. I may not get in my car and drive to an office owned by someone else every day, but I still work for someone else. Which end of the whip I'm on is still kind of up in the air. (Is that how you see it?)

I guess how this all relates to annexing Mexico (at least in my mind) is simply this: No, we should not. IF we were to magically return to or find rationality in my beautiful country and create a system governing its populace instead of a crowd of thieves, then I'd say hell yes. Annex away. But now, no way. Not until the trend is to more freedom instead of less and to laws pertaining to all (including especially those in government). Also, take away the insanity of the presidential pardon, executive privilege BULLSHIT. Nothing makes me more upset than that. THERE is the fallacy of having a ruling class.

[Qfwfq]

I produce software for telephone company billing. My factory is my mind, my computer and my office (at home). Am I a member of the ruling class?

It all depends on:

 

A) How big your business is.

 

:hyper: (sine qua non) Whether you "take care of your interests".

 

Any entrepreneur is working for someone else.

 

I guess how this all relates to annexing Mexico (at least in my mind) is simply this: No, we should not.

Yeah, back on topic. The truth is that nowadays there's no such thing as annexation, it's obsolete, it's politically unfeasible. Today you have names such as globalization, free market, outsourcing etc.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Qfwfq:

Call it aristocracy or what you will, they're the ruling class, along with all those that significantly support them such as lobbies, benefactors etc.

I went back and reread your posts and I guess I have to agree with this. You accurately portray the situation but I wish you were wrong.

In my pristine mental (I wish this was the way things were) environment :hyper: , government has little effect on the economy and lobbyists don't exist because the government isn't in the 'business' of granting favors to anyone.

Imagine it. A level playing field.

That's never been tried you know. As soon as someone suggests it as a valid option, all those who benefit from the patrons pounce with talons extended. And the benefactors do too. Their self worth is tied to granting favors and the power over other lives that gives them. Now I don't have a problem if they're giving away something that belongs to them, but they're taking it from me first. That pisses me off.

The aristocracy will always exist so I guess I have to agree with you on this too. But the nature of it should change. The level playing field would allow the folks who embrace existence and work to understand it the opportunity to be visible and reap the rewards that are currently being simply stolen from them.

But that would mean that honesty would have to be elevated to an actual virtue and like oil and water, it wouldn't mix well in Washington, D.C. or in any other political capital on the planet.

Thank you for giving me an outlet for these thoughts. You do that quite well.

[Qfwfq]

Imagine it.

Imagine all the people... :note:

 

The aristocracy will always exist so I guess I have to agree with you on this too.

Have you ever read part three of Nineteen Eighty Four? When O'Brien lets Winston ask whatever question he wishes, promising a true, sincere answer, and Winston asks him what the purpose of the whole thing is?

 

If not, there's also another consideration: "As long as there will be toilets to be cleaned..."

 

You do that quite well.

:)

[Qfwfq]

BTW, I had in mind to look up about the Wright bros. and I just did. They were certainly entrepreneurs.

 

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/history1_p18992.html

 

And in many pages across the web: "Both excellent mechanics, the Wrights used the facilities of the bicycle repair shop and factory which they operated (1892–1904) at Dayton for the construction of their early aircraft."

[Buffy]

My, my. With all the ruckus being stirred up today about Nuestro Himno, I thought it was only appropriate to practice "turnabout is fair play" rather than doing the anti-freedom knee jerk that seems to be going on (69% say the National Anthem should only be allowed to be sung in English), so without further ado, here's the Mexican National Anthem in English (transliterated courtesy of Babelfish with a few "corrections"):

Chorus:

Mexican, to the shout military

The steel, you prepare and bridle,

and tremble in its Earth centers.

To the sonorous one roar of the cannon.

 

Forehead of olive fits Oh mother country your!

Of La Paz archangel divine,

That in the sky your eternal destiny

By the finger of God it wrote.

But if it will dare a enemy stranger

To profane with its plant your ground

Oh thinks dear mother country! That the sky

A soldier in each son gave you.

 

Chorus

 

War, war without truce to which tries

Of the mother country to stain the honor!

War, war! The patriotic banners,

In the blood waves you soak.

War, war! In the mount, the valley

The terrifying cannons roar,

And the sonorous echoes resonate

With the voices of Union! Freedom!

 

Chorus

 

Before, mother country, that unarm your children

Under the yoke their neck folds

Your countrysides with blood are watered

On the blood its foot is printed.

And your temples, palaces and towers

They collapse with terrible roar,

And their ruins exist saying:

Of thousand heroes the mother country was here.

 

Chorus

 

Mother country! Mother country! Your children swear to you

Exhale in your altars its breath,

If the bugler with its warlike accent

It summons them to fight with value.

For you the olive garlands!

A memory for them of glory!

A laurel for you of victory!

A tomb for them of honor!

 

Chorus

 

Adios amigos!

Buffy

[Racoon]

Uno de Enero,

Dos de Febrero

Tres de Marzo

Cuatro de Abril

 

Cinco De Mayo!!

:shrug: :eek_big:

 

...San Fermin, Fa la la la la la la... ya no....[hic].. pagara... .[hic!]

 

I think its good for American's to learn Spanish. :(

 

Nice Translation Senorita Mamita Buffita Bonita :(

[InfiniteNow]

It's time to ditch the nation-specific anthems and come up with a global one. It could be modelled on the group statement said at the beginning of various self-help gatherings. Something like,

 

We are all life on this planet,

I search for the wisdom to recognize my connection to all other things

To provide help where I may

Eliminate dismay

To transport and strengthen peace each day.

 

Humbled by the knowledge that I am but a fraction of a speck on a fraction of a dot in a fraction of a galaxy in a fraction of a supercluster, I am proud to love my neighbors...

 

 

I'm still working on the rhythm... but you get the point. :)

[bpjg2fat]

wait wait wait wait wait. http://studenttravel.about.com/b/a/257478.htm

 

so now small amounts of drugs are legal in mexico.:) :D :( :) :) :)

[TheBigDog]

Don't forget the fovorite anthem of President Clinton...

 

Bill

[Qfwfq]

so now small amounts of drugs are legal in mexico.

For quite a while over here, personal use hasn't been illegal. Only peddling remains a crime.