Religion - Pointless to Discuss?

[Racoon]

I have scoured the Theology Forum.

 

Seems nothing gets people stirred more than a good What is - What isn't.

 

Has anything productive ever come from discussing Religion through a computer?

 

Belief will most likely not change if you have religious convictions.

so why bother?

 

This is a Poll.

But I put it in Theology as opposed to Community Polls.

 

PS - I remember Tormod saying something about a History Forum in one of these theology threads!

That would be cool.

[Rsade]

Hmmm'. Can anything be changed by debate in a forum? I have seen many changes religious and otherwise occur because of my discussion with them VIA the Internet. So the computer is an evangelistic tool with no equal in my opinion.

BTW I am an open theist Christian and minister of a paper tiger church and humanitarian micro mission.

 

You have been warned....heh! Let the very new Binary digital Crusades begin.!!!....!This is the attack of the Internet pod Christians!!!

 

Resistance is futile!

 

You will be assimilated...

 

 

eh?...Yeah... I am a Borgish minister.

 

Now where is 7?

[Edella]

I have scoured the Theology Forum.

 

Seems nothing gets people stirred more than a good What is - What isn't.

 

Has anything productive ever come from discussing Religion through a computer?

 

Belief will most likely not change if you have religious convictions.

so why bother?

 

Why bother indeed!

As for me,I'm curious as to why people think the way they do.How can obviously bright people come to such different conclusions?What would convince a theist he was mistaken.What would convince an athiest?

 

Reading the posts in the theology forum over the last few days suggests very little progress is being made towards any understanding.

 

I will reconsider my reasons for posting in that forum.

 

 

Ed

[Buffy]

No its not at *all* pointless to discuss. But a reread of the rules of the Theology Forum is assigned to everyone. The reason Theology is even on this site at *all* is twofold:

• It is a recognized area of philosophy, anthropology and sociology, and warrants discussion on that basis alone.
  
• Many of our members--including many you might be surprised at--have strong religious beliefs and this is a place for them to express aspects of those beliefs as they relate to their lives and their participation in this Science forum.

What it is *not* is a tool for Evangelism. To some it is fun to come into a lion's den and try to bait the lions. Some of these people end up complaining that they are not "treated fairly" or pronounce any resistance as "proof" of the superiority of their belief. This is a wonderful example of self-fulfilling prophecy. These attitudes go away as soon as the discussion is reframed from "science vs. religion" into "religion vs. religion" (check the archives). These activities are in fact very much akin to something like Rsade going into a Mosque and calmly and reasonably saying that Mohammed was a false prophet or walking into a Synagogue and explaining why it was wrong for the Jews to crucify Jesus (which I know you would never do...would you?). Its calm, its reasonable, but its still baiting people. If you want to evangelize, that's absolutely your right, but do it elsewhere. Cries that this "proves" the scientists wrong are not so much laughable as they are insulting.

 

The reason for that is this: there *are* strongly religious people who firmly believe in science. The positions that generate the greatest ire around here are those that say they're incompatible. Moreover, that position is often stated as an obvious truth. This is calling *believers* sacreligious. Its offensive and those that engage in that sort of position should be ashamed of themselves.

 

Now as a practical matter, its pretty much impossible to stop debates about the inconsistencies and innacuracies and perceived weaknesses of various views about religion or philosophy, and it is to a certain extent a worthwhile and healthy area of discussion. But if your attitude gets in the way, you should not be surprised if someone elses attitude collides with it. "My Karma just ran over your Dogma."

 

Cries of bias are really getting old and they are not true. I and many others here will happily scold the atheists who say offensive things about believers here just as much as we scold the believers who scoff at atheism. If you want to claim there is a "war on Christianity" you will rightly be scolded for false and self-serving indulgence in victimology by *both* atheists and believers. Take it elsewhere.

 

And y'all wonder why politics has gotten so vicious. Stop the hate, folks!

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[pgrmdave]

Hmmm'. Can anything be changed by debate in a forum?

 

I've learned quite a bit from this forum, and my views on some things have been changed. I think that it is perfectly fine to discuss, even debate religious issues. I don't think it's okay to be rude, inconsiderate, or disrespectful about it.

[infamous]

Why bother indeed!

I think the old saying goes; "The more things change, the more they remain the same". Minds do change, just look at scientific theory over the past several centuries.

 

 

 

 

How can obviously bright people come to such different conclusions?

Well................let's all consider the views about the world being flat not so long ago versus our perception today. I do understand that several centuries separate these two world views soooooo, what about Loop Quantum Gravity and String Theory. Seems like people still have different ideas about how things really are don't they?

 

What would convince a theist he was mistaken.What would convince an athiest?

That's going to be a different cocktail for every individual..........................depends upon your taste, doesn't it?

 

Reading the posts in the theology forum over the last few days suggests very little progress is being made towards any understanding.

 

I will reconsider my reasons for posting in that forum.

Consider very carefully, you wouldn't want to miss something really interesting would you??

Be a sport and join in, wouldn't hurt would it?

[Edella]

Consider very carefully, you wouldn't want to miss something really interesting would you??

Be a sport and join in, wouldn't hurt would it?

Thanks Infy.You're a good man.

[Southtown]

Religion - Pointless to Discuss?

Relevance is relative.

 

Reading the posts in the theology forum over the last few days suggests very little progress is being made towards any understanding.

I kinda agree and am actually working on this. I'm preparing an intro post to a series on the significance of Hebrew Feasts. Watch for it. ;P

[rockytriton]

I don't understand the reasoning for the 3rd option. Ok, people often change their views, so we should discuss it... This strikes me as wrong for two reasons:

 

First, you want to convert from a scientist with no religion to a "believer", that's great on a religious forums site, but why would there be a forum on a science site that is devoted to converting people to religion???

 

Second, you want to convert someone who is a Christian or a Muslim or whatever to believe only in the laws of science and stop believing in their religion. That's just plain wrong, why would anyone want to make someone stop believing in their religion?

 

For those two reasons, I just don't see the point...

[TheBigDog]

What bothers me in discussing religious topics is when people are bent upon converting each other rather than learning from each other and trying to gain respect for the diversity of beliefs that exist. The point of the debate to me is an oportunity to show that there is deep thought and consideration put into people's points of view, and that religious beliefs are not a litmus test for a person's intelligence or mastery of scientific topics and methods.

 

Bill

[InfiniteNow]

Regardless of the topic, once you stop discussing things with others you begin to trap yourself into a single and oftentimes mistaken mind set. Of course it should be discussed, regardless of how you feel about it.

 

The problem is more in that it's often a yelling match, not a discussion. Convert me? No, not likely. Educate me? Yes, I'll even have seconds.

 

 

Cheers. :hihi:

[Rsade]

What it is *not* is a tool for Evangelism. To some it is fun to come into a lion's den and try to bait the lions. Some of these people end up complaining that they are not "treated fairly" or pronounce any resistance as "proof"

 

The computer is a tool for science as well as religion. Your statements are thinly veiled threats and will not bear fruit, well except for bitter fruit.

 

This is the religion thread.

 

So I will post religious topics here. I post science in the science threads. Get used to it buffy, its about life. And that baiting and trolling remark is such a con game! Science types troll and bait as a matter of principle. Your statements are hollow and are obviously malicious.

 

Additionally if you attempt to critique me in the future, please give it your best and render your anti religious manifesto down to a sentence or two, I nearly went to sleep reading that tirade.

 

Hate? What hate? I love you buffy as a child of God as well as all other people on earth, even the BTK guy, for example.

 

; } >

[infamous]

What bothers me in discussing religious topics is when people are bent upon converting each other rather than learning from each other and trying to gain respect for the diversity of beliefs that exist. The point of the debate to me is an oportunity to show that there is deep thought and consideration put into people's points of view, and that religious beliefs are not a litmus test for a person's intelligence or mastery of scientific topics and methods.

 

Bill

Agreed BigDog; Actually the purpose of this forum should never be about converting anyone, what ever their inclination. The object of this forum is for those with different perspectives on the subject of religion to help each other understand why they each believe the way they do. Also included in the discovery should be some investigation of historical facts and or records. Religion is a universal phenomenon including every class of individual and walk of life, it deserves rigorous study.....................Infy

[Edella]

Wow.You know, Rsade, private messaging may be the way to go with this....

[Buffy]

The computer is a tool for science as well as religion. Your statements are thinly veiled threats and will not bear fruit, well except for bitter fruit.

They weren't really thinlly veilled. You are a guest here. What would you do were Richard Dawkins to insist upon heckling you from the front pew of your church every Sunday? Would you consider it rude? Would you escort him from the premises that you own?

 

I am politely asking you to consider how your statements are viewed by others. I am not going to respond in kind. Sorry!

Additionally if you attempt to critique me in the future, please give it your best and render your anti religious manifesto down to a sentence or two, I nearly went to sleep reading that tirade.

I would suggest that you consider that you may be saying this to a highly religious person and that you're stating that your religion is superior. You have completely ignored my arguments, refused to address them, and have simply called me anti-religion. That's offensive, its baiting and its trolling. Saying "science types troll and bait as a matter of principle" is not only false, its slanderous. If you want to be rude and offensive, do it elsewhere. Its not going to be tolerated around here.

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Qfwfq]

Rsade,

 

that's not the way to reply to another member, flame and offence aren't welcome around here, and even less is it the way to answer a moderator that tells you your post is outside of the scope of this forum.

 

Do you think you are the boss here?

[Rsade]

Re: Religion - Pointless to Discuss? - Yesterday, 08:53 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

They weren't really thinlly veilled. You are a guest here. What would you do were Richard Dawkins to insist upon heckling you from the front pew of your church every Sunday? Would you consider it rude? Would you escort him from the premises that you own?

 

 

Where did I heckel? And I disagreee they were threats as this post of yours is as well. And I would give a thousand richards a platform in my church, which I own, as well as a micro mission, or to any church that I attend, to express his opinions as long as he did not curse or insult.

 

I am politely asking you to consider how your statements are viewed by others. I am not going to respond in kind. Sorry!

 

That is your prerogative,(to comment on my post), and one that you may choose at your expense. I always consider and respect all the MEMBERS and GUESTS in any forum even when being taunted and or criticized constructively or somewhat maliciously as you seem bent on doing, but thanks for your input anyway.......Jeezze!

 

BTW I thought I was a member and not just a guest..I reckon I got demoted.

 

 

I would suggest that you consider that you may be saying this to a highly religious person and that you're stating that your religion is superior.

 

you are in gross error. Where did I say that my religion or beliefs were "superior"? Accusations demand proof and you have none.

 

 

You have completely ignored my arguments, refused to address them, and have simply called me anti-religion. That's offensive, its baiting and its trolling. Saying "science types troll and bait as a matter of principle" is not only false, its slanderous. If you want to be rude and offensive, do it elsewhere. Its not going to be tolerated around here.

 

If I have ignored some your posts its because I have no comment. And none that you have addressed me personally. (if I missed them please correct me and I respond) . Am I required to comment on every post? If I violate a TOS let me know otherwise I will continue to post my mind, with due respect to all. And you are earning my disrespect each time you attack me.

 

Cheers,

 

likewise, and god bless you buffy.

 

; } >