Aero-Dynamic Lubrication?

[Pyrotex]

I completed the collimators in the duct today. Total of 322, 4" straws in roughly 11 rings....

Really awesome piece of work, Turtle.

 

Is this the prototype for the ion engine for my new wheelchair, or the actual flight model??

 

"Straws"??? Does this thing run on Diet Coke???

 

:)

[Turtle]

Really awesome piece of work, Turtle.

 

Is this the prototype for the ion engine for my new wheelchair, or the actual flight model??

 

"Straws"??? Does this thing run on Diet Coke???

 

:)

 

No diet for this baby! :) Full-on juice only. :( You bring an interesting point however on using this on some engine or another. As the building progressed I observed a considerable weight gain, and I decided that's a drawback for engine applications where the plastic collimators would most certainly require metal replacements. For your ion engine, I think a simple sieve plate will do and the extra length of my collimators would add no benefit in thrust.

 

More what I have in mind is the stationary duct projecting its subsonic cohesive collimated air-flow, all else being equal, over a greater distance than achievable by other means.

[Turtle]

:msn: Thrusting right ahead, I conducted the experiment and found the maximum distance from the candle for the full collimator-packed duct to blow out the flame is ~8.5 feet. This is just under a 12% improvement in distance over the next best run, i.e., the open fan with no duct.

 

In the video, notice that around the 47 second mark, I turn off the camera. I thought the flame was blown out, but see in the video that actually a little blue flame is hiding on the back-side of the wick. I quickly went back to record and finished the little bugger off.

 

I may have to add sights, as it is particularly tricky to aim. (As if all the wobbling around to get on target isn't obvious. :doh:) :Guns:

 

That's another wrap from the wlab.

 

YouTube - Laminar Flow Experiment - Full Duct :11 Collimator Rings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFh_9fmKD7U

[freeztar]

Awesome stuff Turtle! :msn:

 

Allow me to make a few suggestions:

 

Can you mount the collimator-fan onto the table in a way that it can be angled and steady? Also, I imagine that at that distance, there is a 1 second or more delay from when you alter the angle to when the wind reaches the target. Perhaps measuring the delay would help you aim better, as well as the scope/crosshairs you suggested.

 

Also, it seems that once you have the fan set so that it is blowing in the correct direction/alignment you could *slowly* move the candle closer to the fan. Perhaps put tape or some kinda guidance line on the table to move the candle along. When the flame goes out, you could measure the distance. Repeat and repeat.

 

Just some suggestions, take 'em or leave 'em.

[Turtle]

Awesome stuff Turtle! :Guns:

 

Allow me to make a few suggestions:

 

Can you mount the collimator-fan onto the table in a way that it can be angled and steady? Also, I imagine that at that distance, there is a 1 second or more delay from when you alter the angle to when the wind reaches the target. Perhaps measuring the delay would help you aim better, as well as the scope/crosshairs you suggested.

 

Also, it seems that once you have the fan set so that it is blowing in the correct direction/alignment you could *slowly* move the candle closer to the fan. Perhaps put tape or some kinda guidance line on the table to move the candle along. When the flame goes out, you could measure the distance. Repeat and repeat.

 

Just some suggestions, take 'em or leave 'em.

 

Now you tell me! Short of tearing it apart to repeat the series, making those changes now would change the requisite 'all else being equal' clause.

 

I do have more/different experiments planned, and making the duct stationary is a likely inclusion. Hey ho, blow the man down. :msn:

[Turtle]

Thanks for the awsome comments & encouragement fellas. :) I think... ... or are you just trying to get me on to more hijinks? :doh: Guess it doesn't really matter when the game's afoot, aye what?

 

Oh yeah, while the glue dries on my next targets, I grabbed a photo. What I have is 6, 1 inch long pieces of plastic straw left from trimming, and a thread attached with a drop of glue. When dry, I plan to fix the fan/duct level & plum, and with the targets suspended from a board, move them into the airflow.

 

I expect with the control open-fan, the tubes will bang around randomly, but I'm hoping that with the lamninar flow through the collimating duct, the little tubes line themselves up with that flow and stay there. :msn:

 

Discuss, and/or place your bets Ladies & Germs. :cup: :Guns:

[Turtle]

...

Oh yeah, while the glue dries on my next targets, I grabbed a photo. :hyper: What I have is 6, 1 inch long pieces of plastic straw left from trimming, and a thread attached with a drop of glue. When dry, I plan to fix the fan/duct level & plum, and with the targets suspended from a board, move them into the airflow.

 

I expect with the control open-fan, the tubes will bang around randomly, but I'm hoping that with the lamninar flow through the collimating duct, the little tubes line themselves up with that flow and stay there. :)

 

Discuss, and/or place your bets Ladies & Germs. :cup: :)

 

This is a wonderful example of a poorly designed experiment. :eek: The torsion from the thread(s) is significant compared to the airflow. :doh: I'll spare you the video, because I didn't make it. :hyper: :)

[alexander]

Turtle, may i suggest trying something else out?

 

can you come up with some sort of a cone to decrease the diameter of out port, to increase the speed of the flow?

 

also you can take another can that is empty to compare it with, wait, what did you use for a can?

 

but anyways here is a quick diagram illustration of what i mean, and what i am expecting to see, similarly i'd like to find out whether the laminar flow increases the distance gained in this process

 

but yeah, here's a quick paint sketch of the thought anyways:

[Turtle]

"Straws"??? Does this thing run on Diet Coke???

 

:hyper:

 

Something for everyone today! :P First up for Pyro is clarifying that I have collected the drinking straws my roomies bring home to use in this project. The first attached image is my Can-O'-Straws.

 

Can you mount the collimator-fan onto the table in a way that it can be angled and steady?

 

I amped up your aimability a bit, and test mounted the device to my camera tripod. Wicked cool! Photo #2 below is yours.

 

Turtle, may i suggest trying something else out?

 

can you come up with some sort of a cone to decrease the diameter of out port, to increase the speed of the flow?

 

also you can take another can that is empty to compare it with, wait, what did you use for a can?

 

Suggest away Alex! Rather than a cone, which would introduce the Venturi Effect into the mess, I have opted for simple, flat baffles. The can is a 2-pound coffee can, and I have been saving the lids of other cans to use as the baffles. Third attachment is for you , showing one baffle cut with a circular ~2" port, and others awaiting my knife. :naughty:

 

More to follow at a turtle's pace. __________..............

[freeztar]

Nice stand! :naughty:

 

I'm looking forward to the new results.

[alexander]

the Venturi Effect

ooh, thank you, *runs around the room screaming* Research Time!! :cup: !!

 

Nice tripod mount, btw :phones:

 

And i'm anxious to see the results, i would think that with the baffle, laminar flow can would increase the distance by more then a regular, strawless can.... because in the normal environment, that baffle will introduce more turbulance, where, in a laminar flow, the stream will continue being, well, laminar, like in a fountain, expensive fountain at the Bellagio or Burj Al Arab or something, that is...

 

*stares at his screen, anxiously pressing the refresh button*

[alexander]

Ooh, ooh, just read about the effect, but it seems to me that you will still get this effect with the baffle, i would still expect to see a drop in pressure, at the baffle, and an increase of pressure inside the can, and as a result would still see the increase in speed, or am i missing something here?

 

infact, you could calculate the speed at the out port, given the pressure before and after the baffle, and initial speed :)

 

[math]P_1-P_2=\frac{\rho}{2}(v^2_2-v^2_1)[/math]

 

where [math]\rho - \text{density of the fluid}[/math]

 

thus

[math]v_{out}=\sqrt{2(P_1-P_2)\rho^{-1}+v^2_1}[/math]

 

oh and (P1 - P2) can be substituted in as a pressure differential, that can easily be measured using a water column

 

infact, you can measure it :)

 

here's a diagram for an apparatus :)

[Turtle]

ooh, thank you, *runs around the room screaming* Research Time!! :) !!

 

Nice tripod mount, btw :)

 

And i'm anxious to see the results, i would think that with the baffle, laminar flow can would increase the distance by more then a regular, strawless can.... because in the normal environment, that baffle will introduce more turbulance, where, in a laminar flow, the stream will continue being, well, laminar, like in a fountain, expensive fountain at the Bellagio or Burj Al Arab or something, that is...

 

*stares at his screen, anxiously pressing the refresh button*

 

:) It is a program I saw on cable about how they build those jumping fountains that prompted all this. :) Having tried it with water already myself after seeing the program (years ago), I got the itch to try it with air. With the water apparatus in the show, a flat baffle with a round hole is the only 'nozzle' I saw.

 

Ooh, ooh, just read about the effect [venturi effect], but it seems to me that you will still get this effect with the baffle, i would still expect to see a drop in pressure, at the baffle, and an increase of pressure inside the can, and as a result would still see the increase in speed, or am i missing something here?

 

Following up on this, I find that the proper term is not 'baffle', but rather 'orifice plate', and that as you say, Bernouli's Principle applies.

...Bernoulli's principle which says that there is a relationship between the pressure of the fluid and the velocity of the fluid. When the velocity increases, the pressure decreases and vice versa. ...

Orifice plate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The diagram there at the link of an orifice plate shows the exiting flow quickly spreading out, and as you say, & I think is the case too, because of the collimators before the plate in my duct, the exiting flow won't spread but rather continue as a laminar flow.

 

I messed around a bit with the 2" opening plate, but nothing formal or measured. Because it's flexible plastic, the pressure caused it to bow out slightly. Anyway, the battery needs recharging and experiments to follow at my usual pace. .................:)

[alexander]

i saw that show too, i was really excited about it, so i built one as well :) a couple of years back, and then i gave it to someone and never got it back, just like a couple of overclocked video cards, just like my not-so-easy button.... those cool things seem to walk easily, oh, just like one of my 300mw wireless cards, just like my bluetooth card with a 5dbi gain on it.... list goes on

[Pyrotex]

This is going to blow you away.

Somebody else got the same idea for increasing flow--using very TINY tubes:

 

Nanotubes

[alexander]

yes, that would do it, but the walls would have to be a hell of a lot thinner :hihi:

[Turtle]

This is going to blow you away.

Somebody else got the same idea for increasing flow--using very TINY tubes:

 

Nanotubes

 

Thanks Pyro. While the two systems share the structural similarity of parallel tubes, I think the actions differ fundamentally. The 'flow' they have increased is in the context of units of pure water passed vs. units of water + other stuff introduced to the filter. (Understand I really have no idea what 'flow' I have increased, so at least they know what they are doing.:lol:) Their design appears to have a greater flow than other methods. Looking at the micrograph of the sample they made, there's a ways to go before they get a uniform nesting of nano tubes. I starting wondering too if the kept back stuff might clog the nano tubes pretty fast? :hihi:

 

Anyway, good stuff Maynard and thanks for thinking of me. : I rather have gone off on some other bright & shiny obsessions of late , so I'll get back here with further experiments just as soon as I get back here with further experiments.