Buddhism

[Panjandrum]

While all religions have an element of social control, along the lines of "Be an obeidient little drone and god will reward you in the next life", Buddhism adds the cruel twist that any misfortune of genetics you suffer from is, in fact, deserved because of your actions in a previous life.

[Jehu]

While all religions have an element of social control, along the lines of "Be an obeidient little drone and god will reward you in the next life", Buddhism adds the cruel twist that any misfortune of genetics you suffer from is, in fact, deserved because of your actions in a previous life.

 

The "Precepts" in Buddhism have nothing to do reward or punishment in the next life. They are merely a set of guidelines meant for those whose personal maturity is not sufficiently developed to curb their antisocial behavior. While the mature practitioner knows that an authentic human being requires no rules or laws whatsoever, but is guided by the own intrinsic humaneness.

 

On the matter of Karma, the Buddha taught that everything arises as a result of causes and conditions. Good things, he taught, arise out of good causes and conditions, bad things, out of bad causes and conditions. Just as when we tend a garden, we ensure that the proper condition prevail for the kind of plants we wish to grow, and so as not to encourage the weeds. However, if the weeds do grow, it is not the weeds that are to blame, but we who sow the seeds.

[Panjandrum]

Thats preciesly my point. Dress it up however you like, it still boils down to "Hey Jimmy, sorry to hear you got luekemia, guess you shouldnt have been such a jerk in your last life!". For a rational being like myself, such a 'philosophy' ammounts to blaiming people for misfortunes they have no control over.

 

Intrinsic humaneness? Whats intrinsic about it? Ive spent a good portion of my life trying to understand why I should give a **** about other people, without ever finding a compelling answer. Something intrinsic should be self-evident, surely?

[Jehu]

Intrinsic humaneness is what is left behind when we have fully discarded the erroneous view that we are real, independent, and substantial entities, abiding in an objective universe. We accomplish this by comming to the understanding that the true nature of reality is essentially cognitive, and that our own consciousnesses are merely temporary framents of the one absolute and truly existent entity - Reality itself. Consequently, it is not Jimmy that is born with luekemia, it is you and I. It is we, the gardeners, that will spring up from the soil, and it is we who will benifit or suffer from the conditions we have put in place.

[Racoon]

Intrinsic humaneness? Whats intrinsic about it? Ive spent a good portion of my life trying to understand why I should give a **** about other people, without ever finding a compelling answer. Something intrinsic should be self-evident, surely?

 

Don't tell us what it sounds like to you.:phones:

I said No Negative energy or vibes.

Go away from this if you doubt and question. This is positive contemplation.:phones:

 

 

please, Do not upset the Buddha while he eats his Peach! :naughty:

[InfiniteNow]

please, Do not upset the Buddha while he eats his Peach! :singer:

The Buddha cannot be upset by the outside world, Racoon, only by his own perception of it. :eek2:

 

 

Cheeriohhmm... ;)

[Panjandrum]

Intrinsic humaneness is what is left behind when we have fully discarded the erroneous view that we are real, independent, and substantial entities, abiding in an objective universe. We accomplish this by comming to the understanding that the true nature of reality is essentially cognitive, and that our own consciousnesses are merely temporary framents of the one absolute and truly existent entity - Reality itself. Consequently, it is not Jimmy that is born with luekemia, it is you and I. It is we, the gardeners, that will spring up from the soil, and it is we who will benifit or suffer from the conditions we have put in place.

 

???

[Panjandrum]

Don't tell us what it sounds like to you.:singer:

I said No Negative energy or vibes.

Go away from this if you doubt and question. This is positive contemplation.;)

 

 

please, Do not upset the Buddha while he eats his Peach! :eek2:

 

Whose view can I be expected to give if not my own? Doubt and question are the only ways to find the truth, without them we are animals or worse, credulous to the point of idiocy.

 

I dont understand what you mean by negative energy or vibes. Do you mean disagreement? If so, why not just say so? It seems to be just needless obfuscation. Perhaps Im simply missing the point, in which case I await enlightenment. ;)

[Jehu]

Whose view can I be expected to give if not my own? Doubt and question are the only ways to find the truth, without them we are animals or worse, credulous to the point of idiocy.

 

I dont understand what you mean by negative energy or vibes. Do you mean disagreement? If so, why not just say so? It seems to be just needless obfuscation. Perhaps Im simply missing the point, in which case I await enlightenment. :phones:

 

Doubt and questioning are indeed the only way to find the truth, however, they are not enough in themselves. We must open our minds, as well as our eyes, if we are to see things clearly. A wise man once said that if we know what we are seeking we will undoubtedly find it, however, if we do not know what we are seeking we just might stumble upon the Truth. In other words, we must take a position somewhere between the “blind believer”, and the “blind disbeliever”. Buddhists call this position the “Middle Way”, and it is the only path to enlightenment, so don’t “await it”, “pursue it”.

[Michaelangelica]

I find the image of a laughing, sitting fat man a lot more comforting than a man dying in agony on a cross.

I feel Judasim, Islam and Christianity are the three most intolerant religions in the world. They have caused, and continue to cause, a lot of pain and suffering. There is too much fundamentalism associated with them

(There are of course a lot of beautiful, spiritual "Christ like" people in them all)

 

I see Buddism as forgiving, inclusive, flexible and happy.

Not proscriptive, but gently making suggestions about life.

One of which is that it is up to you to be happy NOW.

The big three seem to be saying suffer now ("offer it up" I was told in a catholic school) and then yours is some vague afterlife peopled by many virgins or freebeer.

(Terry Prattchet's views on the afterlife appeal more!)

 

I have read a couple of books on Buddism by an American (NY?) jew called ?? can't remember. (his mom calles him the "deli lama"). He seems to express the gentle, yielding nature of Buddism as it changes and adapts to new cultures rather than imposing a dogma on them.

I havent read any of the main religious texts.

 

The buddists I have met have impressed me as gentle, calm, kind people who always seem to have time to listen, really listen.

I am amazed by the Dali Lama - a truely forgiving and spiritual person.

Although I was shocked to hear him say he is still angry about the Chinese invasion of Tibet (and their subsequent genocide?).

Try googling "anger buddism" it just does not compute - not one hit.

 

I love the Buddist respect for life. Although I can't practice it.

I like meat and hate mosquitos, fleas etc. I do get pangs of guilt when I don't buy free range eggs (having seen and been sickened by a cage farm).

 

I have never managed to master meditaion, take anti-depressants, valium and worry that the Buddists might be right and I will come back here again in a new life -a terrifing thought!

Michael

[Panjandrum]

I would broadly agree, that if you must have a religion, Buddism is one of the best for social harmony and personal contentment. The problem I have with it is more the implications of the doctrines of Karma and reincarnation, both of which are borrowed from hinduism. Its why I prefer the gnostic religions,which have the same emphasis on the illusionary nature of reality and the need for trancendant thought without any questionable elements.

 

I suppose it depends on why you want religions to exist. As far as I can tell, religious people embrace faith for personal comfort, while society pushes religion as a means of social control.

 

I am a very open minded person. I dont mind admitting when I am wrong, and Im always open to new arguaments. I am free from many of the preconceptions and biases that aflict otherwise intelligent people, since my reasoning is uninhibited by such things as emotion, compassion and guilt. My vision is clear, my opinions formed through reason alone.

[InfiniteNow]

Many findings in the past century in the field of Quantum Mechanics seem to parellel traditional Buddhist principles.

Really? Such as?

Primarily referring to the Many-Worlds Interpretation, however, there is some intersting commonalities with impermanence and uncertainty as well.

 

 

Cheers. :confused:

[InfiniteNow]

I am free from many of the preconceptions and biases that aflict otherwise intelligent people, since my reasoning is uninhibited by such things as emotion, compassion and guilt. My vision is clear, my opinions formed through reason alone.

Hahahaha... I sincerely doubt this. However, if this is absolutely true, then when someone looks up "zen buddhist" in the dictionary they'd see your picture... :confused:

[Racoon]

Primarily referring to the Many-Worlds Interpretation, however, there is some intersting commonalities with impermanence and uncertainty as well.

 

I am awake.

But I am not enlightened.

[Jehu]

I would broadly agree, that if you must have a religion, Buddism is one of the best for social harmony and personal contentment. The problem I have with it is more the implications of the doctrines of Karma and reincarnation, both of which are borrowed from hinduism. Its why I prefer the gnostic religions,which have the same emphasis on the illusionary nature of reality and the need for trancendant thought without any questionable elements.

 

Neither Buddhism, nor Gnosticism, nor any other religion has a monopoly on the Truth. Religions are merely receptacles or conveyances for the Truth, intended to preserve and disseminate it. However, those who are responsible for propagating the religions eventually begin to pay more and more attention to the vessel, while increasingly neglecting that which it is intended to preserve, and the message begins to degrade. This is the present state of all the great religions, and so they expend more and more of their energy on protecting the religion itself, its dogma, its rituals, and its influence. This is known in Buddhism as “The Dharma Ending Age”, and many Buddhists believe that we are presently living in this age.

 

On the matter of Karma and reincarnation, please let me shed some light of these most misunderstood aspect of the doctrine. The Truth (The True Nature of Reality), is subtle and difficult to understand, and The Buddha was always careful to teach people according to their capacity to understand, for it makes no sense to give an explanation that is not understood. Therefore, when approached by a peasant an asked why their where poor people in the world, he answered that it was because they were greedy in a past life. This answer was, however, only an expedient means, a provision explanation. The Buddha knew that the peasant would not be able to fathom a full metaphysical explication of the nature of reality, and so gave the man a teaching that would benefit both himself (in the present life), and those who would come after him. However, what the Buddha was really saying was that there is poverty in the world because there is greed, and since he (the Buddha), knowing the True Nature of Reality, did not differentiate between this man and any other man (including himself) past, present, or future, he knew that he who would be born into poverty in the future, is none other that this same man (himself). In truth, however, the “Doctrine of Emptiness” denies the reality of either birth or death, and so cannot support the notion of reincarnation, as it is understood in the Hindu tradition.

[Panjandrum]

Hahahaha... I sincerely doubt this. However, if this is absolutely true, then when someone looks up "zen buddhist" in the dictionary they'd see your picture... :)

 

Im glad my disorder amuses you. :D

 

Im not sure that what I have is conducive to achieving enlightenment, tho. I dont seem to have a spiritual bone in my body, although I find the subject fascinating. Mostly because it provides endless opportunities for control and coercion, but also because it is interesting in its own right.

[Michaelangelica]

 

I am a very open minded person. I dont mind admitting when I am wrong, and Im always open to new arguaments. I am free from many of the preconceptions and biases that aflict otherwise intelligent people, since my reasoning is uninhibited by such things as emotion, compassion and guilt. My vision is clear, my opinions formed through reason alone.

This sound more like a computer than a human. (Dr. Spock maybe) I can't believe you can do this!?

Could you expand more on the gnostic religions? What are they?

It seems ALL religions have borrowed from each other!

Michael