Buddhism

[Tormod]

I want to be more than that.

 

But you ARE. You are the BIG DOG!!! :rolleyes:

 

(Sorry for my chirpy mood. Will lay off on my new Caol Ila single malt now).

[Racoon]

I think we have a diffrent definition of 'emotion'. I dont consider physical sensation to count. Besides, I said 'most', not all.

 

And yes, psychological. As in psychiatric :)

 

This is Buddhism thread. Or Was

Thanks for turning it into the Panjandum side show. :rolleyes:

 

Anyone have something in regards to Buddhism?

Nothing, - now we're getting somewhere! :hihi:

[Panjandrum]

Still struggling with this issue Panj? How many posts on how many threads going on and on about how you just don't understand morality or emotion? I think you are simply using this forum for some bizzar lubricant for intellectually jacking-off. :eek: :rolleyes: :hihi: I want to be more than that. :)

 

Bill

 

Stimulating though I find you, it was not my intent to begin another discussion on this subject. I was merely responding to Tormods inquiriy. As Racoon has suggested, we should return to the topic at hand. I shall repost my last on-topic post.

[Panjandrum]

Reason, no matter how skilfully it is employed, if it does not depart from a valid premise, will not lead one to the truth. It is analogous to the use of compass to navigate uncharted seas, if one is not certain of where one began, one cannot be certain of where one presently is. This, however, is not a fault that is inherent in the compass.

 

But where does the knowledge of your 'location' come from? havent you simply accepted the teaching that you dont know where you are? Doesnt it all come back to a leap of faith, the abandonment of reason?

 

 

As to my providing scientific evidence of my beliefs, what is it that you think that I believe? I have not, to the best of my recollection, expounded any beliefs. But why must we speculate at all? Are we not all participants in the realm of reality? Do we not all possess the faculty of reason? Why don’t we simply put away our beliefs for the time being, and see if we might find the truth for ourselves?

 

Well, for one, you belive the universe is an illusion. Now I realise that implies science is also illusionary, but what about reason? Or faith? Arent they also logically illusions? In which case, by your own reasoning, its impossible to ever know if you are the right path, even if you reach the end. Any 'truth' you think you have discovered must be a figment of your imagination, since 'real' truth is unknowable.

[Jehu]

But where does the knowledge of your 'location' come from? havent you simply accepted the teaching that you dont know where you are? Doesnt it all come back to a leap of faith, the abandonment of reason?

 

 

 

Well, for one, you belive the universe is an illusion. Now I realise that implies science is also illusionary, but what about reason? Or faith? Arent they also logically illusions? In which case, by your own reasoning, its impossible to ever know if you are the right path, even if you reach the end. Any 'truth' you think you have discovered must be a figment of your imagination, since 'real' truth is unknowable.

 

There seems to be some confusion! We have not said that one should simply accept a teaching nor do these teachings say that we do not know where we are. The analogy of the compass was meant to illustrate that as metaphysicians, we do not have the luxury afforded to the sciences, of having founding axioms or principle that we may take to be self-evident, and then use as a point of departure. Consequently, the metaphysician has only the faculty of reason and their own cognitive experiences, to provide such a point. The problem, however, lies in the fact that we infer far more from our cognitive experiences than they actually give. For example, if one places one’s hand into a vat of water, and the water feels cold, all that one can reasonable extract from the experience is that the water “feels cold”, and not that the water “is cold”. The same is true of all phenomenal experiences, hence we use the term “mere appearances”. In any event, there is no leap of faith required, only a discerning mind and a willingness to follow valid reasoning, wherever it might lead.

 

 

In philosophy, the burden of proof falls to whomever asserts a proposition to be true. We have merely asserted that it is possible to arrive at the “true nature of reality” by way of rational enquiry, and this we are prepared to demonstrate, if only there where someone willing to enquire. You, however, assert that there is no “real” truth, but you provide no rationale for believing it to be so. Perhaps you could demonstrate how it is possible that any sort of world, illusory or otherwise, can rest upon a foundation that is “not real”, and by extension, non-existent.

[Racoon]

But where does the knowledge of your 'location' come from? havent you simply accepted the teaching that you dont know where you are? Doesnt it all come back to a leap of faith, the abandonment of reason?

 

Any 'truth' you think you have discovered must be a figment of your imagination, since 'real' truth is unknowable.

 

It comes from perception P-dum.

 

Abandonment of reason? NO, abandonment of desires and abandonment of thought.

 

You access your Delta-Brain waves while meditating correctly or doing Tai chi or Chi Kung or something very constructive and peaceful like gardening or fly-fishing or what-not.

 

You will realize this if/when you can achieve this state..

Just like when you realize somebody is a pain in the ***.

 

What is it you are trying to contribute? :cup:

I haven't read anything good, or helpful. :)

 

You continue to upset the Buddha while he eats his peach.

maybe that what spurrs you on.

You thrive on making things more difficult than they really are...

and frankly its a waste of time and breath to try and explain to you.

[arkain101]

There are classes of truth.

 

I am not going to get into labeling them and explaining them but I can give you some examples.

 

A person tells the truth about what they witnessed at a robbery. Although what they say is not really how it happened, they are still explaining what data is in there mind without altering it, and it is the truth to their memory.

 

Another class of truth,

 

A person in ancient times comes across a peice of metal in a black smith shop. He grabs onto the metal (which very hot) and his hand burns with pain and imediatly he reacts by letting go and flipping his hand in the air, without really thinking. The truth is, the feeling of hot. It is knowable truth, hot metal feels hot, it burns. It is obvious truth.. but is truth in a very profound way.

[Racoon]

#1- A person tells the truth about what they witnessed at a robbery. Although what they say is not really how it happened, they are still explaining what data is in there mind without altering it, and it is the truth to their memory.

 

#2- A person in ancient times comes across a peice of metal in a black smith shop. He grabs onto the metal (which very hot) and his hand burns with pain and imediatly he reacts by letting go and flipping his hand in the air, without really thinking. The truth is, the feeling of hot. It is knowable truth, hot metal feels hot, it burns. It is obvious truth.. but is truth in a very profound way.

 

Thats a good post Arkain. :cup:

but

 

#1 - has to do with Perception and Memory. see "What is Memory" thread. The Perception of the events, that are/are not distorted by the current emotions/thoughts going on inside your head at the time. Some peoples perceptions are accurate, while maybe some peoples aren't.

 

#2 - Is pain response!...Quik signaling from receptors and neurological pathways responding rapidly. But yes, Truth in that it hurts! To the degree it hurts depends on your pain threshold, and prior training >>(ie. Iron Palm, or being able to walk on hot coals.)

Which then turns into perception once again...

 

Reality IS the Reality you create.

[arkain101]

I understand what your saying. But I may have not made my point clear enough.

 

There is truth all the time. Existence is here, your consciousness, your emotions are happening. It is truth, in other words it is foundation of reality.

 

We can percieve it all many ways yes, but there is truth in the sense of stating the very obvious. The truth is, we are here. The truth is, here is where we are. I can see, and its truth. I call it obvious truth because it really does sound as though you are stating something so obvious that you dont even need to call it truth.

Then again, I see your point how there is alterations for pretty much everything. An insane person who has trouble with halucinations may disagree with obvious things I state. But there are some I find are not arguable.

Like if a consciousness can agree it is existing and experiencing, which just may be that it is only determinabe in their own consciousness, it is a state of truth, simply by being a percievEE of reality.

[Racoon]

There is truth all the time. Existence is here, your consciousness, your emotions are happening. It is truth, in other words it is foundation of reality.

 

We can percieve it all many ways yes, but there is truth in the sense of stating the very obvious. The truth is, we are here. The truth is, here is where we are. I can see, and its truth.

 

Gotcha'. and Yes.

Truth, as in fact, you just typed that last post. :)

 

Your emotions are however, a response to your perception,

BUT,It is a fact, that you feel them,

but you feel those emotions based on your perception.

 

Yin - Yang ... Mass - No-Mass... Action - Reaction...Hot - Cold ... Left - Right

 

Buddhism is a beautiful concept.

Well, thats my perception. :)

 

It all boils down to those simple words:

Reality is the reality you create.

[hallenrm]

Buddhism is a beautiful concept.

Well, thats my perception. :)

 

It all boils down to those simple words:

Reality is the reality you create.

 

Truely speaking Buddhism is not a religion at all! When spelled that way it smells of a religion.

 

In fact, Buddhism like most (religions) is an evolved state of mind. Like that of its progenator!:) :D. One has to go much deeper then the skin to realise its truth.:shade: :note2: :love:

[Queso]

Bold as love

Just ask the axis,

He knows everything.

 

- jimi hendrix

[Jehu]

There are classes of truth.

 

I am not going to get into labeling them and explaining them but I can give you some examples.

 

A person tells the truth about what they witnessed at a robbery. Although what they say is not really how it happened, they are still explaining what data is in there mind without altering it, and it is the truth to their memory.

 

Another class of truth,

 

A person in ancient times comes across a peice of metal in a black smith shop. He grabs onto the metal (which very hot) and his hand burns with pain and imediatly he reacts by letting go and flipping his hand in the air, without really thinking. The truth is, the feeling of hot. It is knowable truth, hot metal feels hot, it burns. It is obvious truth.. but is truth in a very profound way.

 

Well said! Nice to see things moving into a more fruitful direction!

 

There are, as you say, “classes of truth”. To be more precise, there are two truths, that which is in actuality, and that which merely appears to be. The former we call “absolute truth”, as it is independent of any particular observer, the latter we call “contingent truth”, for it is contingent upon there being an apprehending mind.

 

Your robbery example clearly belongs to the contingent category for, as you say, the witness’ explanation is merely an account of what appeared to have taken place, from their particular point of view, and so may or may not accord with the facts. Your second example, however, also belongs to the contingent category, for the feeling of heat is dependent upon there being a mind that apprehends that heat.

 

Let me ask you this, when you move the cursor around your computer screen, does the cursor really move, or does it merely appear to move? In order for the cursor to actually move, there must be some entity (cursor) that partakes of that motion, is this not correct? But the cursor on your screen has no such entity, for it is nothing more than the play of colour and form. There is simply the systematic turning on and off of pixels such as to give the appearance of a cursor moving from one point to another. But if the cursor is itself, nothing but an illusion, how then can its motion be real? And if the motion is not real, where then does the motion take place?

 

In any event, do not give up on this line of enquiry, for the Buddha said that if one delves deeply enough into any one particular thing, one would find the origin of all things…

[InfiniteNow]

There are classes of truth.

Yeah, I think more people should be required to take those before they're handed a diploma... :shrug:

[Racoon]

perception + truth = illusion ???

 

Its not the answer that enlightens, but the question.

[Buffy]

perception + truth = illusion

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." -- Adam Savage

 

Who ya gonna call? :phones:

Buffy

[UncleAl]

Forever murderous Europeans worshipped peace-spewing Christ. Forever starving Asians worshipped morbidly obese Buddha. Forever destitute East Indians worshipped 330 million opulent Hindu gods. Do we detect a trend here, say bait and switch by priests?