The Afterlife.

[Dirty_Harry06]

Yello everyone.

 

Is there an afterlife?

 

I like to think there's something, not nessicarily a "life" after death but something.

 

The fact that nothing in the universe can nessicarily be destroyed. (i.e. things just change state. e.g. When our bodies die, we rot and turn into fertelizer, but in essence the particals which made up our body still exist.)

 

So, I heard somewhere that them brain contains a type of electrical energy, non?

 

So perhaps when we die, like our bodies, this energy stays within the ecosystem? Perhaps that is what religon refers to as a "soul"(maybe they just didn't know what it really was)?

 

Now, bare with me.... ghosts. I have documented proof of the existance of "ghosts" at a household I visit regularly. They take the form of small children and manipulate objects (toys usually) within the house and laugh, and run, and play.

 

Perhaps this electrical energy which is contained within our brain contains memories and, no nessicarily thoughts, but feelings? emotions? Perhaps when we die this energy escapes our body and seeps into the atmosphere as abeing of almost pure energy?

 

Now, ghosts. Perhaps ghosts are people who have died under extreme emotional pressure of some kind (i.e. murder) and therefore the intensity of the energy within their brain was maximizing at their tim eof death. Perhaps, because they have more "power" then others who have died they are able to use particles of matter in the atmosphere and manifest themselves?

 

I've heard that "ghost hunters" measure types of electrical disturbances with machines. Perhaps this is why.

 

Question, comments, queries are welcome!

[TheBigDog]

Now, bare with me.... ghosts. I have documented proof of the existance of "ghosts" at a household I visit regularly. They take the form of small children and manipulate objects (toys usually) within the house and laugh, and run, and play.

Welcome to Hypography Dirty_Harry06! Is the 06 for the year, or the number of shots the punk should have been counting? I love this post, but it is in risk of being shuffled to Strange Claims. #2 asked me the other day why ghost hunters were not routinly committed to insane asylems. Very interesting question that I have been waiting for an opportunity to ask here at Hpography. And you have given me that opportunity! Thank you.

 

You are making two claims. First that ghosts exist, and that you have proof of it. And second that ghosts are some sort of energy echo of once living beings - and thus possibly evidence of a type of afterlife.

 

1) Please share with us your proof of the existance of ghosts. I am sceptical, but always open minded.

 

2) How do you link this proof or your experience as to say what you saw was because of a deceased person, and not from some other phenomena that might fit the bill?

 

Bill

[arkain101]

I am convinced existence is all there is. There can not be existence, if there ever was not. I think logically we fit into this statement. Due to the fact individual existence, or consciousness exists, says that it can never be not this way / it can only be this way.

 

I have found that our consciousness is flexible. Come to know yourself and come to know the kingdom of heaven. Is this not a quote of jesus from the bible? Not to promote or use the bible as a valid teaching but, I have learned that we can find inside ourselves if you take the path to do so, a deeper consciousness or more expanded, like a spiritual consciousness. If we have always existed like I stated, on some infinite level, we would need to have a spiritual consciousness. I do believe we can learn how to awaken this, and remember it again. As children our consciousness is just as real as any other adult. Yet children are generally in a natural state of bliss. If you can remember what it was like to be a young child where your life or world was one very different experience from now. Another (in-exact) quote of Jesus from the bible, just to show similarity; Learn to be like the way of the child, learn to re-open the natural consciousness.

 

Anyhow, now that I have learned to will this state of consciousness on and off I have experienced some things of which I have NO explanation. Before talking about a particular experience I just want to mention, how distinct these versions of concsiousness are. The general consciousness of which most of us eventually mold into is the, Take life in a stride consciousness. Here we accept existence as it just being the way things are, we pass through time without questioning not only existence in the now, but any of details involved with existence. Can you talk to someone the same time you have no explanation why you are here able to talk to them? This normal consciousness we develope as we grow into adulthood is where we we act like we are sleeping/un-rebellious from reality (which is quite the opposite as you would think) because we continue through this state of being without truly questioning with your state of being as to the key to it being here.

 

This spiritual version is more of a feeling than a logic or thought, but unlike most feelings. You can feel it is true, some other part of you feels it is at use. Here you conect to a part of yourself you have always known, it finds everything in life unfamiliar, yet it has no memory, but it has substance of infinity, which is strangely as I would put it, its own version of memory (very hard to explain).

You dont take life in stride you are in a state like that of a person who just escaped death and sees the world in a new set of eyes, in an awakened spiritual consciousness. They dont see a tree made of atoms and molecules and cells.. They see a creation in the realm of existence and inspires aw into them... We are capable to learn this consciousness without narrowly escaping death, however it requires a diffucult journey.

 

The experience I recently had was unlike anything I have ever heard of or experienced. I have for the 3rd time experienced a transition of vision. My body turned into electrical looking lightning. My body as the flesh appeared to become unsifnificant almost invisible, the rest of the world was there, but as I looked down at my body and moved i could only see lightnight that looked like it was traveling the paths where my nerves would be, inside me. I could not see it if I focused my eyes on one posistion, and could only see it when I looked past myself, unfocused, not really using my eyes, more of my perifial vision, looking around in my field of view without moving my eyes. As I moved It looked as though I was passing through something, as it would cause a flourishing in strange looking lightning, but as I said it can only be seen through the minds eye using the input of unfocused eyes. I walked around my house and it seemed to fade in other spots and be strongest in the area of which is started. I do not haloucinate, nor do I have a family history of illness or disease. I do not do drugs. I was completely sober at this 3rd experience. It lasted for nearly 2 minutes and I stood there in complete awe waving my arms around seeing myself in a reality completely out of my imagination.

I did a representation of what exactly I could remember what it looked like and this is the best example I could create using photoshop.

 

http://www3.telus.net/hill/electric.jpg

 

I felt it was part of something other than this physical reality we live in. It occured after a request I had made aswell. I would like to hear explanations, i do not know what it means nor do I try to apply a meaning behind it, I mearly just mean to honestly describe what has happened on 3 seperate occasions. Once after splashing water on my face while washing up..

Once while at the computer mentally willing up different consciousness..

another time just moments after I come from outside inside my house...

 

I am going to attempt to make it happen again. Again I stress I do not attatch and supersitious supernatural meanings to it, I am just a regular guy who had this happen.

[Southtown]

Well, if you have proof of ghosts, all you have to do is prove they were once live human beings. Until then, it can't be said that we will end up the same.

 

I don't believe in the afterlife, either. I believe in a spirit realm. And I believe in a resurrection when Jesus returns.

 

"

For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun. Go then, eat your bread in happiness and drink your wine with a cheerful heart; for God has already approved your works.

--

Ecclesiastes 9:4-7 nasb

[HydrogenBond]

I believe that there are phenomena that we attribute to ghosts. These may be due to human potential from within the brain affecting the world around it. I know my laptop is sometimes sensitive to my state of mind will act strangely at times without snoopware or viruses. I could visualize the magnetic output of the nervous system (whole body outputs) having an affect on electronics, especially since things are getting so small.

 

The biggest problem with this premise, is how does one factor out the affects of the brain and nervous system on certain experiments. For example, the cold fusion experiments that originally appeared to worked may have been due to mental type interaction. Without that mindset the mechaniscs of science is not giving the same type of results. There may be other experiments in physics that are distorted by the human factor.

[Panjandrum]

I don't believe in the afterlife, either. I believe in a spirit realm. And I believe in a resurrection when Jesus returns.

 

LOL

[REASON]

When you mention afterlife, what you are really referring to is "Life After Death." This has been a question of human beings for millions of years, since we developed the ability to contemplate our existence, and the death of other living things around us. Reconciling that death is an enevitability of all living things has been a very difficult challenge for us higher thinking creatures. Ultimately, the fear of the unknown, the loss of loved ones, the fear of not existing, and the basic instinctual need to survive, has led to our creation of the concept of life after death. Nobody wants to die (even as some feel they have no alternative).

 

Basically, I believe that we are so afraid of forever losing consciousness, that we have BSed ourselves into thinking that after we die, we will get to go on for all eternity in some other conscious form. We do this as a coping method in the face of an enevitability that is very hard for many to handle. And we are great at BSing ourselves about all kinds of realities that we don't want to confront. Believing that there is life after death just simply feels better, and it allows us to go on with our lives without being consumed by fear of death. I believe it's a form of self medication. And it's perfectly harmless (at least until you start criticising or judging others for not believing as you do).

 

Conciousness is a privilege of the living. It is the result of literally billions of years of biological development driven by the need of living organisms to understand their surroundings and simply survive. If consciousness could be achieved, or offered by a God, without the requirement of an enormously complex structure of atoms and molecules, there would be no need or purpose of a material universe. Unfortunately, when our physical bodies die, our atoms and energy is disassembled over time and returned to the vast collective, and our consciousness is relagated to that which it was before we were conceived, nothing. But fear not, because you will be unaware of the life you had lost or that you had ever lived at all.

 

I know this all sounds very bleak and sad and it is. But it is a truth I have come to accept no matter how unpalatable. One important thing it has done for me is that I truly appreciate the fortune of my life and my consciousness, and the opportunity to share it with others who I care for and love. And I tend to have a respect for all living things as well (except for mosquitos). I wonder how much respect and appreciation others would have for life if they were truly able to understand and accept the reality and finality of death.

[Tormod]

This has been a question of human beings for millions of years

 

Say again?

[REASON]

Say again?

 

Figuratively speaking. Although my understanding is that we have found human fosil remains that date back as far as two million years. I could very well be mistaken about that.

[Tormod]

Figuratively speaking. Although my understanding is that we have found human fosil remains that date back as far as two million years. I could very well be mistaken about that.

 

We have fossils of hominids dating that far back. But Homo Sapiens is fairly young, perhaps 190,000 years (that is the oldest *unconfirmed* find so far). A figure of 130-150,000 years is probably more likely.

 

And as far as religion and civilization goes, we can maximum go back some 10,000 years (and that is stretching it a bit) with any hope that we might be able to interpret their culture. The concept of an afterlife is extremely hard to pinpoint when it comes to when the idea first came about.

[rocket art]

The space-time fabric must have a kind of minutest structural component, most likely a crystalline lattice with definite patterns, as tool for material particles and energy to travel through as it exists through this dimensional space-time fabric. This inherent, extremely minute (such that it becomes vehicle for the smallest sub-particle one could comprehend) crystalline structure enable to store data, including memory from consciousness. Perhaps ghosts are packets of memory in such a way that the denseness of such memory (i.e. caused by injustice, extreme sorrow, anger or attachment) cause such unresolved memory data to stagnate to lower dimension and be rendered anomalous, being unable to pass through higher, more intricate dimensions.

 

Classical, Ancient Philosophies, such as in Hinduism or in Mayan belief systems (with mathematical support to such views), indigenous creation mythology, and even the writings of Plato, can trace back human history for hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of years. It may be that these views await modern science to finally confirm such ancient profound knowledge, that in the long passage of time such awesome histories were too fantastic to be believed (they say it's the falling down of the world to lower dimension from its once glorious era) and eventually rendered as mere myths and legends.

[infamous]

 

So perhaps when we die, like our bodies, this energy stays within the ecosystem? Perhaps that is what religon refers to as a "soul"(maybe they just didn't know what it really was)?

 

Now, bare with me.... ghosts. I have documented proof of the existance of "ghosts" at a household I visit regularly. They take the form of small children and manipulate objects (toys usually) within the house and laugh, and run, and play.

 

 

Question, comments, queries are welcome!

Yes, I have a serious question for you Dirty_Harry. Seeing that we're talking about ghosts and making religious references, give me one good reason why this thread should not be moved to either the Strange Claims or Theology forums. With all due respect, this is the Philosophy and Humanities forum......................Infy

[Freddy]

The space-time fabric must have a kind of minutest structural component, most likely a crystalline lattice with definite patterns, as tool for material particles and energy to travel through as it exists through this dimensional space-time fabric. This inherent, extremely minute (such that it becomes vehicle for the smallest sub-particle one could comprehend) crystalline structure enable to store data, including memory from consciousness. Perhaps ghosts are packets of memory in such a way that the denseness of such memory (i.e. caused by injustice, extreme pain or sorrow) cause such unresolved memory data to stagnate to lower dimension and be rendered anomalous, being unable to pass through higher, more intricate dimensions.

 

Classical, Ancient Philosophies, such as in Hinduism or in Mayan belief systems (with mathematical support to such views), indigenous creation mythology, and even the writings of Plato, can trace back human history for hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of years. It may be that these views await modern science to finally confirm such ancient profound knowledge, that in the long passage of time such awesome histories were too fantastic to be believed (they say it's the falling down of the world to lower dimension from its once glorious era) and eventually rendered as mere myths and legends.

Oh really! Several thousand years is the extent of our historical knowledge.

[infamous]

Moved to Strange Claims...........................Infy

[Tormod]

Thanks infy.

[rocket art]

Oh really! Several thousand years is the extent of our historical knowledge.

 

I once remembered reading a creation mythology by one of the indigenous peoples in our area (a cultural tribe in mindanao island, south of philippines), which later I discovered it had parallel view with Velikovsky's theory (although I do not necessarily agree with his time frame, which he subjectively manipulated to his religious background). Velikovsky implied that Earth and Mars during the primordial era had once been so close such that the gravity of the Earth syphoned the waters from Mars, which caused the latter to lose it and may explain why the surface is highly oxidized. This may also partly explain why Earth is full of water. This should provide a clue while today's science have been crawling for evidences as to where the waters of Mars were.

 

In the indigenous mythology, Earth used to be a god's barren kingdom, until the god discovered another kingdom (that made me curious because if Earth was still barren, what kingdom did the story refer to, it must be outside of the planet i.e. kingdom, then) already teeming with life. The god then "robbed" some data on how to create life, which infuriated the other god and so their mythology also explained why there is much conflict and sadness on the Earth afterwards.

 

Also, there were supposedly ancient mines unearthed in south africa and the artifacts found suggested it dated more than 200,000 yrs. This seems to be parallel with ancient sumerian texts that mentioned of mines called 'Underworld' of the gods, literally located on the 'lower' portion of the world south of the mesapotamian ancient sumeria. However, if one probed much deeper, although the sumerian civilization was considered the oldest, it may actually be the most recent instead upon considering sources that dated even during the predeluvian era and older. Plato's legend of hermaphroditic ancestors was very much older than biblical genesis, though it seems the creation myth of the indigenous people's I had read seemed yet to be the oldest.

[InfiniteNow]

Velikovsky implied that Earth and Mars during the primordial era had once been so close such that the gravity of the Earth syphoned the waters from Mars, which caused the latter to lose it and may explain why the surface is highly oxidized. This may also partly explain why Earth is full of water.

Now THAT'S a strange claim! :D Well done, RA. Thanks for bringing Velikovsky into the SC forum... That takes the cake. :lol:

 

 

 

Stephen Jay Gould - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Velikovsky is neither crank nor charlatan — although to state my opinion and to quote one of my colleagues, he is at least gloriously wrong.... Velikovsky would rebuild the science of celestial mechanics to save the literal accuracy of ancient legends.

 

Immanuel Velikovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Put most concisely, it can be said that Velikovsky's ideas have been wholly rejected by mainstream academia, often vociferously as Velikovsky's work is generally regarded as erroneous in all its detailed conclusions. Moreover, Velikovsky's unorthodox methodology (for example, using comparative mythology to derive scenarios in celestial mechanics) is viewed by scholars as an unacceptable way to arrive at conclusions.