Future of our Species?

Panjandrum · May 10, 2006

Humankind will persist in one state or another until our sun leaves the main sequence. I doubt that even if we devoted ourselves wholeheartedly to the attempt would we be able to wipe ourselves out.

Buffy · May 11, 2006

I dont think we will (as a whole world) launch enough nukes to create the horrors that have been speculated in thought and art. The Nuclear winter scenarios, the mass devestation by the explosions themselves....Degrading of the enviroment would not affect the entire world at once for several years, which is what would be required for mass extinction of people. Many species could become extinct under those conditions but not people. We would be among the last to go.

Humankind will persist in one state or another until our sun leaves the main sequence. I doubt that even if we devoted ourselves wholeheartedly to the attempt would we be able to wipe ourselves out.

Now ya both made the same statement, but neither of you have said *why* somehow humans are so much more robust and resilient that we would always survive where other species would not.

So I'm askin' ya: how come you think humans are somehow special, when we've seen so many seemingly powerful species die off throughout Earth's history? Hmmmm?

Well isn't that special, :confused:

Buffy

Kayra · May 11, 2006

Now ya both made the same statement, but neither of you have said *why* somehow humans are so much more robust and resilient that we would always survive where other species would not.

So I'm askin' ya: how come you think humans are somehow special, when we've seen so many seemingly powerful species die off throughout Earth's history? Hmmmm?

Well isn't that special, :lol:
Buffy

To put it another way.

If we believe that we are not special enough to have a chance of surviving, what would be the point of even trying? Why have children? Why endeavour to improve yourself or your family?

We have to believe we are, or there is no point. To answer your question, we are special because we believe we are, and have to believe we are.

Buffy · May 11, 2006

If we believe that we are not special enough to have a chance of surviving, what would be the point of even trying?

My that's defeatist isn't it? Does one always have to think one is going to be on the top of the heap (or get there eventually) in order to have *any* self-worth at all? Don't you ever feel good about just contributing? Or do you always have to get credit? The psychology of this is interesting.

And it also points out that your explanation is that its all about *belief* not *fact*....

Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves, ;)

Buffy

Kayra · May 11, 2006

My that's defeatist isn't it? Does one always have to think one is going to be on the top of the heap (or get there eventually) in order to have *any* self-worth at all? Don't you ever feel good about just contributing? Or do you always have to get credit? The psychology of this is interesting.

And it also points out that your explanation is that its all about *belief* not *fact*....

Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves, ;)
Buffy

Yep, my post is definitely about belief. :rant:

Defeatist? If it is, it was not intended.

We will require a few million years before we can "Prove" that we are resilient enough to deserve to survive.

To get there, we have to believe we are special. This is regardless of the "fact" of whether we are or not.

Your question was,

So I'm askin' ya: how come you think humans are somehow special, when we've seen so many seemingly powerful species die off throughout Earth's history?"

My answer was, because we have to, or we will not be.

Buffy · May 11, 2006

Yep, my post is definitely about belief. ;)

Well this is an *opinion* poll, so that's fine. Just wanted to confirm that its based solely on faith, rather than having some sort of scientific-like justification (which is not a problem! honest! :rant: )

My answer was, because we have to, or we will not be.

That's a tautology! :mad:

Rightliness is next to Godliness,

Buffy

Cedars · May 11, 2006

Now ya both made the same statement, but neither of you have said *why* somehow humans are so much more robust and resilient that we would always survive where other species would not.

So I'm askin' ya: how come you think humans are somehow special, when we've seen so many seemingly powerful species die off throughout Earth's history? Hmmmm?

Well isn't that special, ;)
Buffy

Not special. Rats were not on my list of "many other species would become extinct before people". Nor are cockroaches.

We have tools that would allow pieces of humanity to survive.

Even during the worst plagues mankind has seen in the past a percentage of the population was resistant. If the current avian flu as a potential pandemic occurs, there will be those who have a built in immunity, just as some species in the wild are exhibiting a natural defense now.

And we are spread out further than most of the extinct "power species" who declined due to things such as climate change. We also survived that period without the advantages we have now.

We have not encountered an outside factor such as a meteor strike. And that was one of the things I listed as a potential vote from me responce.

I am not that far from canada myself. Should a nuke assault occur, my survival would depend mostly on which way the wind is blowing according to the weapons impact areas that I have read in the past. There are huge chunks of the usa which would not be targeted and yet hold human population levels. If a nuke winter scenario occurs, there will be areas of the earth which probably wont be as affected. If I am wrong, it wont be only people that are missing in the future fossil record either.

so thats why I posted what I did.

Kayra · May 11, 2006

Well this is an *opinion* poll, so that's fine. Just wanted to confirm that its based solely on faith, rather than having some sort of scientific-like justification (which is not a problem! honest! :mad: )That's a tautology! :)

Rightliness is next to Godliness,
Buffy

Breaks out the dictionary.... r....s...t..tau... Ahh, there it is...

Ooh.. so it is .

Let me try to rephrase that one. (it made sense in my head.. really )

"My answer was, because we have to, or we will not be." = We have to believe we are special enough to survive, or we will not survive to prove we are special enough to survive.

Um..

;) :rant:

Bah, I give up.

Kayra · May 11, 2006

Not special. Rats were not on my list of "many other species would become extinct before people". Nor are cockroaches.

We have tools that would allow pieces of humanity to survive.

Even during the worst plagues mankind has seen in the past a percentage of the population was resistant. If the current avian flu as a potential pandemic occurs, there will be those who have a built in immunity, just as some species in the wild are exhibiting a natural defense now.
And we are spread out further than most of the extinct "power species" who declined due to things such as climate change. We also survived that period without the advantages we have now.

We have not encountered an outside factor such as a meteor strike. And that was one of the things I listed as a potential vote from me responce.

I am not that far from canada myself. Should a nuke assault occur, my survival would depend mostly on which way the wind is blowing according to the weapons impact areas that I have read in the past. There are huge chunks of the usa which would not be targeted and yet hold human population levels. If a nuke winter scenario occurs, there will be areas of the earth which probably wont be as affected. If I am wrong, it wont be only people that are missing in the future fossil record either.

so thats why I posted what I did.

The entire concept of proving you are capable of surviving for a long period of time requires that humankind be put through the crucible of time.

In other words, there is no scientific way to prove we are worthy, except by surviving.

Buffy · May 11, 2006

so thats why I posted what I did.

Cool! Thanks!

Would you agree with me then though that your argument is mainly about the *probability* of survival? I'd agree that your argument in this post clearly shows why humans might be more resistant to say a meteor hit than the dinosaurs were.

I estimate the odds as 237.345 to 1,

Buffy

Buffy · May 11, 2006

We have to believe we are special enough to survive, or we will not survive to prove we are special enough to survive.

Now, *that* I agree with! ;)

If and Only If,

Buffy

InfiniteNow · May 11, 2006

Yeah, we certainly are special.

Just look at all the species we've decimated to or very close to extinction. Case in point, whales.

Forests.

Microbes.

Did I mention whales yet?

We're more viral than mammalian sometimes.

This isn't my normal "be peaceful and respect life post." I'm having a cranky moment and I'm totally absolutely devastatingly livid right now, not so much at the claim that we're special, but at the possibility of anyone believing it.

Okay... <exhale>. I feel better now. No more watching of Carl Sagan's Cosmos for a while. It gets me too worked up. ;)

Cedars · May 11, 2006

The entire concept of proving you are capable of surviving for a long period of time requires that humankind be put through the crucible of time.

In other words, there is no scientific way to prove we are worthy, except by surviving.

Cool! Thanks!

Would you agree with me then though that your argument is mainly about the *probability* of survival? I'd agree that your argument in this post clearly shows why humans might be more resistant to say a meteor hit than the dinosaurs were.

I estimate the odds as 237.345 to 1,
Buffy

I am not sure what your asking exactly, but I did post this in my original response, a disclaimer so to speak:

But I could be wrong. Such is the struggle of speculation!

Maybe you just missed that part.

If you have reason to believe my speculation on the future is wrong, feel free to post the error in my answer.

Additionally, I would add that using past occurances of fact (such as human survival during pandemic, or climate change, or nuke fallout paths after reaction, or knowing each country has a finite supply of warheads) is a reasonable method to use to speculate on the future in this particular poll.

Kayra · May 11, 2006

Additionally, I would add that using past occurances of fact (such as human survival during pandemic, or climate change, or nuke fallout paths after reaction, or knowing each country has a finite supply of warheads) is a reasonable method to use to speculate on the future in this particular poll.

An interesting point.

One the dinasaurs would likely have agreed upon. They ruled here for ... how long? .. 60 million years or so? As a scientist living in that time, I would be able to make a pretty solid (and reasonable) speculation (based on 60 million years of past performance data) that they would be around until the sun burned out.

All of your conclusions in your post were valid. I agreed with every one. :thumbs_up

Buffy had it right in the end. we are only being asked what we think the odds of survival are.

Right now, I give us 80/20 chance of making it. I will give us 99/1 to make it as soon as we estabish permanent living offworld. (to help protect us from the solar environment as well as our crazy selves)

InfiniteNow · May 11, 2006

Buffy had it right in the end.

Gosh, I have such a dirty mind... :thumbs_up

I'll plead that I was primed to think what I did considering the topic of the thread is survival of the species. :eek_big:

Kayra · May 11, 2006

Gosh, I have such a dirty mind... :hihi:

I'll plead that I was primed to think what I did considering the topic of the thread is survival of the species. :D

:thumbs_up

Then you would have to flip her over.:eek_big:

Sorry Buffy, could not resist.

Buffy · May 12, 2006

Sorry Buffy, could not resist.

As Now already knows:

Even if you were the last man on the planet I wouldn't let you flip me over!

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

People are always trying to get me in the end. It comes with the territory I guess. There's always one more vamp that thinks he can whip the slayer. :wink:

In the long run, we're all dead, :hihi:

Buffy

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Future of our Species?