Salt, NaCl, Sodium Chloride.

[Michaelangelica]

"Salinity power" exploits the chemical differences between salt and fresh water, and this project only hints at the technology's potential: from the mouth of the Ganges to the Mississippi delta, almost every large estuary could produce a constant flow of green electricity, day and night, rain or shine, without damaging sensitive ecosystems or threatening fisheries (see map). One estimate has it that salinity power could eventually become a serious power player, supplying as much as 7 per cent of today's global energy needs.

. . .

Working at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, in Beer Sheva, Israel, he envisaged a tank with two chambers separated by a semipermeable membrane. With saltwater on one side and fresh on the other, osmosis would draw fresh water into the salty side, raising its pressure. This pressurised saltwater could then be piped through a turbine to generate electricity (see diagram). Loeb named this process pressure retarded osmosis (PRO) and patented it in 1973.

 

His plan was to harvest power where rivers meet the ocean, close to the point where fresh water meets salt. Fresh water would be piped to a generating plant from upstream and saltwater from downstream. Inside the plant, the fresh and saltwater would be channelled along either side of a membrane. Osmosis would then provide sufficient water pressure on the salty side of the membrane - up to 12 atmospheres, Loeb reckoned - to make electricity generation profitable.

. . .

Statkraft calculates that salinity power could eventually provide Norway with up to 12 terrawatt-hours of electricity annually, roughly 10 per cent of the country's consumption. "We estimate the global potential to be 1600 to 1700 terrawatt-hours annually," says Skilhagen, about 1 per cent of the world's annual energy needs. This would mean using about half of the fresh water flowing through every large estuary.

 

There is some scepticism that Statkraft's technology can be rolled out globally. Norwegian rivers are relatively clear of mud and silt, says Veerman. "In other parts of the world such as the Netherlands and the UK there is lots of silt and bacteria in the rivers." The cost of cleaning up this water makes PRO a non-starter, he says.

 

So Veerman and his colleagues at Wetsus have devised a rival system - a salt-based battery. Dubbed Blue Energy, it generates electricity by moving ions rather than water molecules across membranes. Their membranes are along the same lines as those used in kidney dialysis machines. In fact, their system requires two kinds of membrane - one permeable to positive ions, the other to negative ions. Both are impermeable to water.

Salt solution: Cheap power from the river's mouth - environment - 25 February 2009 - New Scientist

 

This is remarkable and could have a lot of applications in Australia. (A lot of Saltwater aquafiers)

Could someone explain it to me please?

Salt solution: Cheap power from the river's mouth - environment - 25 February 2009 - New Scientist

[modest]

Could someone explain it to me please?

Salt solution: Cheap power from the river's mouth - environment - 25 February 2009 - New Scientist

This page offers a good explanation:

Osmotic energy

Any time a person can create a high-pressure container (a system wherein the pressure is higher than the outside environment) then it's possible to use that difference in pressure to generate electric power. The high pressure can be used to turn a generator as it exits the high-pressure container and flows to the outside environment.

 

If a person had a container full of salt water where the pressure of the water in the container was normal atmospheric pressure, and they put a semipermeable membrane lid on the container which allowed water to flow through the membrane in and out of the container, but does not allow salt to escape the container then they could put the container in a freshwater source like a lake or a river.

 

When the person does this then water will move into the container to try and balance the water's partial pressure inside and outside the container. As water moves into the container it will increase the pressure in the container which was already at normal pressure. If such a person opened a valve on the container letting the pressure out and that valve was connected to an electric generator then the generator could produce power. If the container were emptied and refilled with saltwater then the process could be repeated.

 

In an area where fresh and salt water are available this could be used to generate power without environmental consequences. It is, however, expensive (as I understand). The membranes would need to be replaced regularly among other things.

 

~modest

[Michaelangelica]

Thanks Modest

That helps but it does seem a floored process?

 

Another friend I sent the article to and is heavily into electricty etc

said:-

They use simple osmotic pressure to increase the pressure in a sealed container which holds salt water. The inflow of the water causes pressure in the sealed container which is used in a water turbine to produce power. A simple process but hard to achieve. They could also use the same process to raise water to height and thus have water power from the increased potential energy.

How they are going to eliminate algae and silt from the pores is anyones business since the pores are so small they allo the flow of water but not salt.

They would generate more power just using the flow of the water they are engaging. I don't understand how these guys get money to do the sorts of things they do, they must be really bad at science but really good a collecting money.

 

News _________________________________________

Salt tolerant plants a step closer

Monday, 02 March 2009

University of Tasmania

 

University of Tasmania researchers believe they have the “missing link” to make plants salt tolerant

. . .

One mechanism, related to plant’s ability to keep a constant level of potassium within its tissues, seems to be crucial to make plants salt tolerant.

 

“It appears that we have found a ‘missing link’ in this puzzle”, Assoc Prof Shabala said.

 

“As far as plants are capable to keep potassium high, they are happy. And all other mechanisms discovered so far appear to be complimentary to this one”.

 

The National Land and Water Resources Audit estimates that somewhere between 10 and 25 per cent of currently arable land could be out of production by 2020. So creating salt tolerant varieties is critical for both reclaiming already salinised land and for minimising the overall cost of dryland salinity in Australia which may exceed $1 billion by 2100.

 

Assoc Prof Shabala and his team believe that targeting potassium in plant breeding for salt tolerance opens new and exciting prospects to overcome salinity problem and create tolerant varieties.

 

“Given the large amount of contributing components, it’s a painfully slow process,” he said.

Salt tolerant plants a step closer(ScienceAlert)

[Michaelangelica]

Salt May Be An Antidepressant - Which Would Also Explain Why It's Addictive

Salt May Be An Antidepressant - Which Would Also Explain Why It's Addictive

Past research has shown that the worldwide average for salt intake per individual is about 10 grams per day, which is greater than the U.S. Food and Drug Administration recommended intake by about 4 grams, and may exceed what the body actually needs by more than 8 grams.

Some history (and historical speculation?)

High levels of salt are contained in everything from pancakes to pasta these days, but once upon a time, it was hard to come by

. Salt consumption and its price skyrocketed around 2000 B.C. when it was discovered as a food preservative. Roman soldiers were paid in salt; the word salary is derived from the Latin for salt.

Even when mechanical refrigeration lessened the need for salt in the 19th century, consumption continued in excess because people liked the taste and it had become fairly inexpensive.

Today, 77 percent of our salt intake comes from processed and restaurant foods, like frozen dinners and fast food.

Evolution [/b]might have played an important part in the human hankering for salt.

Humans evolved from creatures that lived in salty ocean water.

Once on land, the body continued to need sodium and chloride because minerals play key roles in allowing fluids to pass in and out of cells, and in helping nerve cells transfer information throughout the brain and body.

But as man evolved in the hot climate of Africa, perspiration robbed the body of sodium.

Salt was scarce because our early ancestors ate a veggie-rich diet and lived far from the ocean.

"Most of our biological systems require sodium to function properly, but as a species that didn't have ready access to it, our kidneys evolved to become salt misers," Johnson said.

salt need and cravings may be linked to the same brain pathways as those related to drug addiction and abuse," Johnson said.

[Michaelangelica]

Distillation of salts from inland saline water sources

H. Aral and G. Sparrow

 

Abstract

CSIRO PUBLISHING - Exploration Geophysics

 

Processing of saline water to produce industrial minerals with large volume applications is considered one way to attack the salinity problem in the Murray-Darling Basin.

We propose that saline water in the Basin be treated to produce industrial mineral salts such as sodium chloride, magnesium sulphate, and magnesium chloride.

 

The magnesium-rich bittern fraction of the saline waters may be processed further to value-added products such as magnesium hydroxide, Sorel cement, or spinel refractories.

 

Sorel cement could be consumed in large quantities in the Basin as construction material and may be used to seal new interception scheme lakes, although the stability of the Sorel cement in aqueous environment remains to be investigated.

 

The processing of mineral sands can be linked with treatment of saline water in an integrated and cost-effective manner that aims to remove salt from the Basin.

 

The sodium chloride fraction can be used to produce chemicals such as chlorine, hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide that can be used in the processing of zircon.

 

Direct chlorination of ilmenite could consume the equivalent of about 1.4 tonnes of sodium chloride for each tonne of ilmenite treated if no chlorine was recycled.

 

Chlorination of synthetic rutile (about 90% TiO2) could consume the equivalent of about 0.3 tonnes of sodium chloride for each tonne of titania pigment produced.

Work in CSIRO Minerals has produced low radioactivity zirconia from a Murray Basin zircon by caustic soda decomposition followed by concentrated hydrochloric acid leaching. In addition, it is proposed that desalination plants be established across the Basin to recover fresh water, heat, and electricity from saline water.

 

These plants will obtain heat and electricity from solar power generation schemes with storage of power in solar ponds and molten salts.

Integrated saline water and mineral sands mining industry in the Basin may ultimately lead to new technology for Australia such as titanium metal production.

Titanium metal produced from TiO2 pigment may be used in building desalination plants across the Basin to recover fresh water from saline waters.

 

Exploration Geophysics 33(2) 136 - 140

 

Full text doi:10.1071/EG02136

 

© ASEG 2002

CSIRO PUBLISHING - Exploration Geophysics

 

 

too much chemistry for this small bear's brain

So salt has a little s-t-r-e-t-c-h in water?

 

Ice Lego, obviously the colours mean something to someone. pretty arn't they? tm

And so water kicks out H into the ice and snow? Where does the salt go?

Liquid water has only 15 percent more H-bonds than solid water.

It gets to hot and again out the H goes??

what happens to the salt the H is supposed to be keeping it in the water

Water is way out of line! It boils at an extremely high temperature for its size. Why? Because of the extensive network of Hydrogen bonds. Those H-bonds are cohesive forces - they want to hold the water molecules together - and there are a lot of them! The process of boiling requires that the molecules come apart

H2O - The Mystery, Art, and Science of Water: The Chemistry of Water: Properties

Once heated, water takes a very long time to cool off. Or in reverse, it takes a lot of heat to make water hot.

The hotter the water the more salt right?

Water is bloody weird stuff

2. Pure water freezes at 0C but is most dense at 4 C. That is, solid water (ice) is less dense than cold liquid water.

H2O - The Mystery, Art, and Science of Water

Finally the scientists 'fess up

The physical and chemical properties of water are extraordinarily complicated and incompletely understood

ie They know bugger all about the most important thing.

 

This was fascinating

In the field of applied fluid dynamics, Laureate Professor Graeme Jameson is something of a legend.

His work in the 1980's, pioneering a new way to help the mining industry extract fine particles led to the development of the Jameson Cell.

Today there are more than 250 Jameson Cells in operation within mines around the world.

The intrepid Dr. Paul Willis headed to Newcastle to meet the Professor and investigate his latest developments

Catalyst: Bubble Mining - ABC TV Science

 

Now if we put lots of bubbles in sea water would we get the gold coming off the top? or just the salt? (Same thing really)

[Michaelangelica]

Salt Water System Could Generate Hydrogen

March 18th, 2009 by Lisa Zyga Enlarge

In this illustration of the system, salt water flows through a rectangular pipe under the influence of a perpendicular magnetic field, B0.

The Lorentz force causes the charged sodium and chlorine ions to accumulate near the metal plates on the sides of the pipe, generating a constant electric field, E. Image credit: R. De Luca.

 

(PhysOrg.com) -- The idea of generating hydrogen from salt water has often been claimed to work effectively. However, the systems proposed so far generally require a much greater energy input than the energy they produce, making them impractical for energy generation.

Now, a recently revived system may be able to cheaply generate a small amount of power.

Salt Water System Could Generate Hydrogen

 

 

 

In the proposal, physicist Roberto De Luca from the University of Salerno in Italy has suggested that flowing salt water could generate an electromotive force, which in turn could generate an electric power output. In his theoretical analysis, he considers letting salt water (containing sodium and chlorine ions) run through a rectangular pipe that has two metal electrodes on the sides, under the influence of a perpendicular magnetic field. In this set-up, the Lorentz force acts on the sodium and chlorine ions in the salt water, creating a Faraday voltage across the two electrodes, and producing an electromotive force.

[vanamoinen1]

very interesting proposal. my only question is: what is the energy investment to generate the magnetic field through which the salt water passes compared to the amount of generated electricity? essentially--what is the efficiency of this system?

[Michaelangelica]

ScienceDaily:

Sea Salt Holds Clues To Climate Change

. .new research coming out of the United Kingdom (U.K.) suggests that the amount of salt in seawater is varying in direct response to man-made climate change.. . .

human-induced climate change could be responsible for rises in salinity that have been recorded in the subtropical regions of the Atlantic Ocean, areas at latitudes immediately north and south of Earth’s tropics

. . .

Salinity levels are important for two reasons.

• First, along with temperature, they directly affect seawater density (salty water is denser than freshwater) and therefore the circulation of ocean currents from the tropics to the poles. These currents control how heat is carried within the oceans and ultimately regulate the world’s climate.
  
• Second, sea surface salinity is intimately linked to Earth’s overall water cycle and to how much freshwater leaves and enters the oceans through evaporation and precipitation
  

.

. . .

Artist's illustration of the Aquarius/SAC-D spacecraft, scheduled for launch in May 2010. It will be the first NASA instrument to measure sea salinity from space. (Credit: NASA/JPL)

Lagerloef and Sen are, respectively, principal investigator and project manager of Aquarius, part of a brand new satellite mission due to be launched into orbit in May 2010. Aquarius is the first NASA instrument designed to track sea salinity from space

. . .“With our instruments we will be able to measure salinity to an accuracy of 0.2 psu,” explains Sen, who works at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, Calif. “If you take half a gallon of water and put a pinch of salt in it, that’s about 0.2 psu.

We will be able to detect that from space, while flying about 650 kilometers [about 404 miles] above Earth.”

Sea Salt Holds Clues To Climate Change

[McBrayer]

Can i get a solution to make fw from sw

 

Sorry Sea water to fresh water

 

The next world war will be for drinking water.................So we shpuld find a solution for that

 

Any body have any idea

[Mercedes Benzene]

Can i get a solution to make fw from sw

 

Sorry Sea water to fresh water

 

The next world war will be for drinking water.................So we shpuld find a solution for that

 

Any body have any idea

 

Well the first thing that comes to mind is distillation. That's probably the simplest method of separating water from the dissolved salts. More advanced technologies exist such as reverse osmosis, but these require expensive equipment. Most modern desalination plants are based on reverse osmosis.

 

Wikipedia offers some pretty good explanations if you want to check it out.

[Michaelangelica]

Can i get a solution to make fw from sw

 

Sorry Sea water to fresh water

 

The next world war will be for drinking water.................So we shpuld find a solution for that

 

Any body have any idea

Yes possibly. hopefully tecnology will save us from this.

See the thread Water Where will it come from in 2050

at

http://hypography.com/forums/earth-science/9628-water-where-will-it-come-2050-a.html

[Michaelangelica]

Manure and salt cleans up the air

 

By Kathy Cogo from Townsville , QLD

 

Wednesday, 20/05/2009

 

Cattle are considered one of the worst contributors to greenhouse gases and climate change, but now they've a chance to redeem themselves.

. . .

The trial plant outside of Townsville in North Queensland looks very simple and consists of a couple of lengths of cut open poly pipe and two water tanks.

 

Laura Thorp from developers C&R Consulting says, "It's designed to take sea water, evaporate it down and we add a nucleating agent to it; and it actually produces an imbalance in the water and forces the water to draw carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere."

 

The nucleating agent is a substance extracted from manure.

 

For the sake of availability, Ms Thorp says they use cow manure.

 

A by-product of the plant is calcium carbonate which can make environmentally-friendly cement.

 

To work at its optimum the plant or 'Greensols', as it's been called, needs to be the size of a football field, and it would use tonnes of manure which developers would source from a local feedlot.

 

The owners are optimistic a commercial plant will be built in North Queensland in the next two years, with the help of the local council.

Manure and salt cleans up the air. 20 May 2009. Rural Online. (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I wonder if it then becomes easier to make potable water from the left over water?

[Essay]

Manure and salt cleans up the air. 20 May 2009. Rural Online. (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I wonder if it then becomes easier to make potable water from the left-over water?

Wow! This is amazing! Good question about the left-over water, but maybe it all gets evaporated.

It sounds to me as if they're mimicking how sea shells are made by sea critters.

This is ingenious. I can't believe it's that easy--I'm gonna have to look into seashell formation--but (w/ a Minor in Biochem) I can already see how.... One of those :D moments....

===

 

"...in conjunction with salt water to take carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and remarkably inventors say it works better and more reliably than trees and soil."

 

Yes, that's the one problem with biosequestration--you have to keep it watered.

 

This stuff is at the bottom of a thermodynamic hill--no watering needed!

But adding water (making cement) would release the CO2, wouldn't it?

...so it'd be carbon-neutral cement--I guess?

...I should probably learn more about cement too, huh?

 

"It needs to be built near the sea, on a flat surface, and in a climate that encourages evaporation."

...using solar power to drive a concentration dependent reaction....

 

This is a very neat idea. Thanks! I hope I can add more later.

 

Thanks for the link!

[Michaelangelica]

A Listserv for people interested in salinity

LISTSERV 15.0 - SALINITY-L List at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU

[Essay]

Manure and salt cleans up the air. 20 May 2009. Rural Online. (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

I had fun bringing up this new-tech idea to several of the researchers and business people at the recent 2009 North Amer. Biochar Conference.

It may far surpass biochar in terms of CO2 sequestration ability, but it'll never beat all the side benefits that biochar has.

 

Keep on sharing those neat links. Biochar can't solve the CO2 problem alone, and this idea may provide a much needed reprieve from our present CO2-linked fate.

 

Thanks again for contributing to--as Erich says--the group mind. Every bit helps, plus....

It was a neat converstaion starter during the conference--talking about "seashells" instead of all char char char....

Someone at ConocoPhillips, from their Climate Change Group, even had me email him the link.

:shrug: ?

 

p.s. ...and, yes....

A Listserv for people interested in salinity

LISTSERV 15.0 - SALINITY-L List at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU

[Michaelangelica]

I had fun bringing up this new-tech idea to several of the researchers and business people at the recent 2009 North Amer. Biochar Conference.

It may far surpass biochar in terms of CO2 sequestration ability, but it'll never beat all the side benefits that biochar has.

 

Keep on sharing those neat links. Biochar can't solve the CO2 problem alone, and this idea may provide a much needed reprieve from our present CO2-linked fate.

 

Thanks again for contributing to--as Erich says--the group mind. Every bit helps, plus....

It was a neat converstaion starter during the conference--talking about "seashells" instead of all char char char....

Someone at ConocoPhillips, from their Climate Change Group, even had me email him the link.

:( ?

 

p.s. ...and, yes....

Thanks Essay,

It is nice to be taken seriously (occasionally :) )

I have posted your rply to the yahoo biochar group I hope that is OK.

 

With Mr. El Nino predicted to be in full flight in oz in the rest of 2009 we might be more worried about desalination. Still ; some parts of Aust. have been in drought for over 11 years!

 

This is another unconventional idea- but i have no idea where to put it-any suggestions?. The reserve mentioned is 30mins. from me. Gum tree growth like this is astounding!

Gardening Australia - Video

However i notice it is all oldies doing the work. Where are the Alphabet generations? Making money?

I guess someone has to pay for my pension!

[Essay]

This is another unconventonal idea- but i have no idea where to put it-any suggestions?. The reerve mentioned is 30m from me. Gum tree growth like this is astounding!

Gardening Australia - Video

 

Sounds good!

 

I love this deep stem planting thing. 20 seconds into the video i could see where it was going. Of course!!! :)

 

Did you see my recent comment about not being able to "teach an old plant new tricks?"

Well I think they found a way to do just that, eh???

 

This would be an opportunity for the new roots to establish a fungal connection with the native soil where the plant has newly found itself.

I have to say this seems unlikely, but it's worth checking for (and would be wonderful if true).

===

 

M, Thanks for that link site; it's a great site. I already watched the video on "microclimates."

 

p.s. ? "The reerve mentioned is 30m from me." :(

p.p.s. Oh, I get it! You live next to this reserve(?). [30 meters, not miles; right?]