Natural | Supernatural

[ronthepon]

IMV the average Joe Blo tends to use words inappropriately, that's why they come to have many odd meanings.

Um... did I miss the inner meaning of that?

 

Of course I did. I don't understand it.

[C1ay]

Of course you do. :)

 

Supernatural (adj.) - beyond the normal; not to be explained naturally.

 

Not "above nature". >>> above rational explanation.

 

I suppose this could include UFO's, and stuff along those lines as well.

 

:embarass:

No. Flying objects can be explained by nature even if there are some flight methods we don't understand yet, anti-gravity, etc.. That a flying object is unidentified does not make it supernatural either.....

[InfiniteNow]

That a flying object is unidentified does not make it supernatural either.....

 

Perhaps superterra, but not supernatural... :embarass:

[C1ay]

Is there anything supernatural?

If not, then why start a thread on it?

I don't think so and that's why I started a thread on it, to debunk a term that shouldn't even exist. There is zero evidence of anything supernatural so people should stop using it as an excuse to explain things that are beyond our current scope of knowledge. IMO, if ghosts exist then they are natural.

[arkain101]

I wasnt sure how I was going to respond to this topic at first. As I read through the posts I gathered something quite common that was sort of between the lines of most of the posts. It intrigued me that what I saw as the base of these thoughts and questions is this.

 

Let us ask ourselves; Is the origin of nature natural, or is the origin of nature supernatural?

 

Then one should find where they stand on this decision.

 

to elaborate. Is nature somehow a natural happening or is nature an occurance from some kind of being of supernatural qualities. Supernatural being in my thinking, that outside our concieved and decided box of reality.

[InfiniteNow]

Is nature somehow a natural happening or is nature an occurance from some kind of being of supernatural qualities.

 

By definition, nature is natural.

 

 

It's like you're asking, is the environment somehow an environmental happening or is the environment an occurance from some kind of being of superenvironmental qualities.

 

That's silly IMO.

[ughaibu]

C1ay: Mathematicians regularly talk about things that dont exist, I think they'd be upset if you prohibited this.

[IDMclean]

Arcane that is very keen of you to pick up on.

 

I obviously would be of the opinion that Nature is natural. I include anything that can happen as part of nature. My definition of the universe is such that if we discover something "outside" the universe and we can experience it then it is obviously inside the "universe" and therefore natural.

 

By my reasoning, anything that is truely supernatural is not experiencable by this universe, and therefore of no consquence.

[arkain101]

It's like you're asking, is the environment somehow an environmental happening or is the environment an occurance from some kind of being of superenvironmental qualities.

 

That's silly IMO.

 

There were some saying that anything that IS real is natural. So if we put that together, we have, an IS (exIStence), is natural (nature)and real.

 

So when we go to the very basic point of where we have said all that is, is real and natural. Then, where do we place nature (the combinaion of many things as a whole "1" ) itself? Something natural or something supernatural?

 

I suppose I can see how it looks silly when not understanding what I meant, but if we post for weeks on what concepts in reality/existence/nature are supernatural and which are natural, then logically, we can sum it up from the starting point, the base, by deciding on how you would classify nature/existence as a whole. Supernatural or Natural?

Why should we do this? If done, ALL things you can think about in the rest of your life will follow suit and branch out from this point of classification. And in doing so it kind of sums up a million words in one decision.

Can "1" be natural or will it be supernatural. (sort of like random happening or god originated)

[C1ay]

Let us ask ourselves; Is the origin of nature natural, or is the origin of nature supernatural?

Isn't nature natural by definition. Nature consists of nature regardless of our understanding of nature.

[C1ay]

C1ay: Mathematicians regularly talk about things that dont exist, I think they'd be upset if you prohibited this.

They don't call them supernatural though...

[Qfwfq]

Ron, an example of what I meant about the meaning of words is:

Supernatural (adj.) - beyond the normal; not to be explained naturally.

which I don't doubt Racoon got from some dictionary, and yet isn't the original (etymological) meaning of the word.

 

Not "above nature". >>> above rational explanation.

:eek2:

super + natural = pertaining to something above nature

 

Of course dictionaries list the various typical uses of a word.

 

What is nature? What is natural? This is certainly something to establish. According to C1ay, everything that exists is natural, so including the most artificial and synthetic things made by mankind, so neither of the two words, 'supernatural' or 'natural' has any use. The word 'nature' comes from the Latin for 'born' and it certainly has a wide range of meanings. The word 'physics' comes, oddly enough, from the Greek word for nature.

[ughaibu]

There's the word zenobiotic for things like DDT, polystyrene, etc.

[InfiniteNow]

What words would you use to describe/explain things that are beyond our current scope of knowledge?

What would you supersede supernatural with?

 

How about "unexplained?"

 

 

Natural and unexplained.

[C1ay]

How about "unexplained?"

 

 

Natural and unexplained.

Are you implying that the things we can't explain are not natural? One example that comes to mind is gravity.

[InfiniteNow]

Are you implying that the things we can't explain are not natural? One example that comes to mind is gravity.

No, not implying that. Basically, I was suggesting that everything is natural, but some things are as yet unexplained... not "super" natural.

 

Gravity is super, but not supernatural.

 

 

Cheers. :hihi:

[arkain101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkain101

Let us ask ourselves; Is the origin of nature natural, or is the origin of nature supernatural?

 

Originally Posted by C1ay: Isn't nature natural by definition. Nature consists of nature regardless of our understanding of nature.

 

Yes, but this can be taken deeper than expected,

 

If you are asking what is natural and what is supernatural, you are asking;

 

What in nature is Natural?

and

What in nature is Supernatrual?

 

Obviously because, you can only ask about "IN" nature because Nature is all that is for us to ask within. We dont know about alternative nature.

 

Although this nature... Is it natural (like matter and energy and gravity)? is it materialistic and real like nature means to our common perspective?

Or is nature supernatural (like a mathamtical designed program that we can interact with from a different place that REALLY is NATURE?

 

We SHOULD ask this question because so much is precise, delicate, controlled, lawed, and mathamatical.

 

Occums Razor:

What would it say about Nature compared No Nature? Which would be most likely to BE;

It would be simpler and easier (take less effort, remain in nothingness) to have NO universe and all its governing detail then it would for a Gigantic universe to explode into existence with all its complexity and precise perfection.

 

Why would existence take the less simple choice? Without intent and work could infinity transform into complexity?

 

I do think of the possibility that nature (this existence and all its complexity) is supernatural. Some possible intent to take nothingness 0/infinity and make it into Something and finite, but finite only in temporary state not in totality. The realisation of nature BEING is suggestive to work?

 

It can be seen when we think of ourselves inside infinity right now. A version of infinity that can appear to flow, but does not. Instead it is a constant creation (comes from no where, and goes nowhere) that we experience NOW and only now. This now is no number ahead or no number behind to the observer, it is zero now. A 0 (zero) point. And a zero point is infinity. This infinity of space-time however Jiggles and seperates. There is frequency and Wavelength but only inside the zero point. Our dreams can make things happen that require no matter and no energy. There is still 'things' there without the frequencies and the wavelength. Not to quote dreaming to strongly, but meerly to ponder.