Depression (Clinical)

[Michaelangelica]

Yet another thread inspired by the Sociopathy Thread

 

"Clinical Depression" is different from being 'depressed'.

It is unfortunate that we don't have another name for "Clinical Depression"

They are not the same thing at all.

Clinical Depression is totally life debilitating.

 

Ask anyone who has been through it and they will tell you it was the worst time of their lives.

The pain is real, severe, and often leads to suicide to escape the pain. It can last for weeks days or years.

Isolating the person socially, mentally, intellectually and ruining family and work life. It is usually accompanied by huge, uncontrollable, pluralising, anxiety

 

It is unfortunate that the word 'depressed' has to be used at all when talking about "Clinical Depression"

 

"Clinical Depression" is not "over-diagnosed" it more often is not diagnosed at all. It is a very serious psychiatric disorder that we don't fully understand.

 

Walking is one of the best things depressed people can do.

 

You can't tell a "Clinically Depressed" person to think positively.

They can't think. Their mind just goes around and around in obsessive-compulsive circles.

Don't give advice like "Pick yourself up etc.

Nor can they smell the roses they only see threatening horrible, frightening thorns. Gratuitous advice does not help.

 

If someone is "Clinically Depressed" :eek2:

Hospitalisation may be necessry .

If that help involves anti-depressants for a time, then so be it.

Powerful pills worry me too

If herbs are your deal St.John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum) is helpful for mild depression.

 

 

Is depression caused by a virus?more here:-

http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.borna.html

 

this is from:-

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/gmis9745.htm

""

You've probably heard the old joke that the difference between herpes and love, is that herpes is forever.

The herpes virus jumps onto you, burrows along your nerves until it finds a comfortable little home in your central nervous system, and then at some future date (usually when your resistance is down) comes raging out - and you get the dreaded cold sores again. But imagine if there was another virus that also invaded your nervous system, but gave you the psychiatric disease called "depression".

 

Some scientists think that this is the case with a virus called the Borna virus. Now right at the beginning, I should tell you that this is still a controversial story, and that not all scientists agree.

 

The effects of Borna virus were first noticed in Saxony in Germany in 1766 in horses - first they got sad, and then hyperactive, and then most of them died. But the virus got its name about a century ago, when it killed some 2,000 cavalry horses in the town of Borna in Germany.

But only recently, in the 1990s, have we found a link between this virus and depression. Depression is a disorder of your mood or emotions. It affects some 5% of the population at any given time.

There's actually a bunch of diseases that go under the single name of "depression", and they tend to come and go during your life. They do more than just make you a little bit unhappy. They can cause severe disability, greater than is caused by heart disease, diabetes or even arthritis. In fact, it's thought that 70% of suicides happen in people suffering from depression. But what's the evidence that this strange new virus called Borna virus can cause depression?

 

Well, much of this research has been done by two virologists, Hanns Ludwig from the Free University of Berlin, and Liv Bode from the Robert Koch Institute (also in Berlin). In 1994, they found that clinically depressed people were more likely to have some of the proteins associated with Borna virus in their blood.

The next year, they found traces of the actual RNA of the Borna virus as well. In 1996, these virologists took some Borna virus from clinically depressed patients, and when they injected this Borna virus into rabbits, the rabbits became apathetic, sluggish, withdrawn and stopped their normal grooming - in other words, the rabbits started suffering depression. And in January 1997, they found that if they used the anti-virus drug amantadine in depressed patients, as the virus disappeared from the blood stream, so did the symptoms of depression.

 

However, other scientists are more sceptical. For example they say amantadine is already well known for its anti-depressive effect, and they claim that it works by binding to some receptors in the brain, not by killing the virus. They also claim that the technique used to detect the virus is so sensitive that it can find a few virus particles floating in the air in the laboratories - in other words, that if you look hard enough, you'll find this virus everywhere. ""

[ronthepon]

Viruses cause depression? Now I really got to change my beliefs.

 

Intresting article

[HappytheStripper]

A name has been formed for what you term as "clinical depression"

 

This is also known as "Bi-Polar dis-order .." and has great impact on ones life .. and it can be a debilitating disease if left un-diagnosed ..

as it works on the chemicals produced and uploaded by the brain ..

 

Yes a virus may lead to depression also when left un-diagnosed .. as a virus has the potential to change the chemical structure ..

 

The phrase used in NZ is "know me before you judge me"

 

Hope this clears up any confusion

 

Regards

 

Ashley

[Michaelangelica]

It now appears likely the depression is a symptom of Aspergers, but they haven't called me in yet to review it.

 

No one thing seems to work for everybody that I saw in the hospitals & clinics so keep us posted on the microbe angle.

OK for Today; about a 4,

Turtle

Ok Turtle, will do.

 

No one thing seems to work for everybody but walking seems to be very good for a lot of people.

 

I am a bit surprised by the suggested Asperger's link.

here are some interesting articles on depression plus links to on-line therapy!(haven't tried it yet)

http://www.abc.net.au/health/library/depression.htm

 

Recently here a young 17 YO boy took his life. He had everything going for him; good parents, home, good at school, popular etc, etc, etc.

But it seems there might be a causal link to his depression from the anti-acne medication he was taking.

A high price to pay to get rid of pimples.

His family and friends are devastated.(literally)

There is a bit about it on the above web site.

[Queso]

depression occurs.

 

Just learn how to harness the negativity,

work the balance with dynamics.

 

Balance,

don't be bored,

ever.

[Michaelangelica]

depression occurs.

 

Just learn how to harness the negativity,

work the balance with dynamics.

Balance,

Not sure i know what you mean by that.

Can you expand pls?

 

don't be bored,

ever.

Very good advice.

Unfortunately truely depressed people are often too sick for advice.

[Queso]

Ok ok-

Balance, everything is.

Think about emotions,

and yin yangs,

and KNOW

that if you are VERY happy,

Probability has it

that you are going to feel oppositely, sometime.

 

What you choose to do with these feelings are up to you.

 

You can ride the waves of opposite wave crest,

or learn how to manipulate the wavelengths

in the sines

of life.

[Queso]

Meditation,

It dents.

[Michaelangelica]

Some more on the "Sad Horse" or 'Wobbly Possum' Virus !

 

Lifted from:-

http://members.iinet.net.au/~rabbit/bornapro.htm

 

Reply-To: [email protected]

 

BORNA VIRUS & DISEASE: REVIEW

*****************************

 

[see

Borna virus in man - Germany 960724185646

Borna disease virus, cats 970404182534

Wobbly possum virus isolated (Borna?) - New Zealand 970607231544]

 

A synopsis of this potentially important emerging disease has been published in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases. The article (by Hatalski, Lewis and Lipkin) can be located at:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol3no2/hatalski.htm

 

Hatalski et al's article is comprehensive and substantial, and appears to be an excellent contribution toward increasing awareness of this important pathogen.

 

We have been interested in this virus for some time because of its possible connection with schizophrenia, and present our own review below.

 

Borna Disease Virus -- Malloy CD and Marr JS

 

Introduction. Borna Disease Virus (BDV) is a unique agent associated with neurologic disease in a broad array of animals, and has recently been implicated as a possible cause of human affective disorders. Named after a town in Saxony, Germany where the disease was first described in 1766 in horses, (1) BDV has continued to cause epizootics among horses in that country, as well as other animal species worldwide.

 

Agent. BDV is a non-classified, enveloped, nonsegmented, negative-strand RNA virus (2) which replicates in cell nuclei. Although the virus has never been visualized, it has been successfully grown in vitro in embryonic brain cells (astrocytes and oligodendrocytes) in a variety of animal species.

 

Host range. In equids, BD has been referred to as "Sad Horse" Disease. Symptomatic infection manifests itself with agitated and aggressive changes, often progressing to inanition and death in several weeks. (3) In horses, other natural hosts and experimental animal models, BDV infection can develop neurologic, cognitive and behavioral changes including hyperactivity, somnolence, apathy, anorexia and depression. As a natural infection, BDV was initially identified in horses and later sheep; it was then observed infecting donkeys, mules, llamas, alpacas,cattle, rabbits, and ostriches. (4) Experimentally, BDV has been transmitted to "an extraordinary wide range of host species, including chickens, shrews, rats, mice and Rhesus monkeys." (5)

 

Recent attention has been placed on feline Borna disease virus, isolated from the CSF of cats suffering from a spontaneous non-suppurative encephalomyelitis, also referred to as "staggering disease." (6) (7) In some animals, behavioral changes include both aggressive and passive stages. (8) Such biphasic manifestations, present in a broad array of species, led to initial hypotheses that BDV could be related to affective disorders among humans.

 

Incubation period, mode of transmission. An incubation period of four weeks has been estimated for horses and sheep. (4) In animals, the mode of spread appears to be by direct contact and exposure to the virus via saliva and nasal secretions. (4)

 

Animal pathophysiology. Although almost every cell line can be experimentally infected, (9) BDV is primarily a neurotropic virus. The agent enters axons of peripheral nerves, spreading centripetally toward the central nervous system through peripheral nerves or the olfactory bulb. (10) Experimentally, BDV has been induced by intracerebral injection and nasal inoculation. (4) In animal models, BDV has been identified as targeting the limbic/hypothalamic region, (8) causing changes in the dopamine neurotransmission. (11)

 

As disease progresses, centrifugal spread occurs to ganglia of peripheral nerves. Recently, BDV has been isolated from peripheral blood mononuclear cells. (12)

 

Morbidity and mortality rates. Although some species of infected animals are asymptomatic, some studies have shown mortality rates in horses as high as 80-100%; in sheep, mortality rates are >50%. (4)

 

Seroepizoological studies. Subclinical BDV infections have been shown to predominate in horses, with the only symptoms being attacks of colic. (4) Longitudinal monitoring of asymptomatic seropositive horses resulted in the observation of several cases; however, the majority of these horses did not manifest clinical symptoms over the following five years. (4) Seroprevalence studies have demonstrated a 13% seropositivity in cats in Germany suffering neurological disorders. (7)

 

Hypotheses for an exogenous cause for schizophrenia. A number of researchers have posited an infectious etiology for human affective disorders. Descriptive epidemiologic studies have shown that schizophrenia is unequally distributed in time and place. (13) A majority of sporadic cases of schizophrenia as well as monozygotic twin studies (14) do not demonstrate a clear genetic etiology. These sporadic cases were more likely to be born in winter (15); other studies link schizophrenia to prenatal environmental factors such as malnutrition, (16, 17) and other gestational factors. (18, 19) Numerous viruses have also been implicated as a cause of schizophrenia, (20) including influenza (13) and tick born viral agents. (21) More recently, a case control study supported the association of cat ownership with schizophrenia. (22)

 

Studies linking BDV to human affective disorders. In the United States, seropositivity to BDV of 4.5% was found in 265 patients with diagnoses of primary depressive disorders. (8) Bode summarizes these results, as well as other studies in various psychiatric/neurologic disorders, (10) with seroprevalence findings ranging from a low of 0% in chronic fatigue syndrome to a high of 23.3% in acute psychiatric patients in follow-up testing. These findings have demonstrated a wide geographic distribution of BDV, with studies conducted in Central Europe, North America, East Africa and Japan. (10)

 

Discussion and conlusion. Viral diseases demonstrate a range of host specificity -- extending from those viruses that exclusively infect humans (i.e., smallpox), to those that are zoonotic in nature (i.e., the influenza group). Other viruses have been shown to have recently "jumped" species (canine parvovirus 2). (23) Most viruses demonstrate organ specificity, including nervous tissue.

 

Human neurotropic viral illnesses range from a benign, acute illness (mumps), to acute progressive disease (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis), to an acute progressive, uniformly fatal illness (rabies). Other neurotrophic viral illnesses are subacute (cytomegalovirus disease), or persistent and remittent (herpes) which may be activated by unknown mechanisms. The rabies virus is an example of a zoonotic neurotropic viral agent, transmitted by saliva and spread intra-axonally to the central nervous system causing a fatal encephalitis. The rabies reservoir includes a wide variety of mammals which, upon occasion, include humans.

 

Independent of present day serosurveys and limited intervention studies, to hypothesize that a virion such as BDV causes lingering, subacute central nervous dysfunction, is not implausible or irresponsible. The work of Bode (10, 22-26) and others suggest that further epidemiologic and epizoologic studies are needed to clarify the relationship between BDV, human host companions, modes of transmission, and human disease.

 

References

 

1. Gellert M, " 'In the beginning the horse is sad,': A historical abstract of Borna Disease," Tierarztl Prax, 23(3):207-16, 1995.

 

2. Schneeman A, Schneider PA, Lamb RA and Lipkin WI, "The remarkable coding strategy of Borna disease virus: A new member of the nonsegmented negative strand RNA viruses," Virology, 210(1):1-8, 1995.

 

3. Lipkin WI, Schneeman A and Solbrig MV, "Borna disease virus: Implications for human neuropsychiatric illness," Trends in Microbiology, 3(2):64-9, 1995.

 

4. Rott R and Becht H, "Natural and experimental Borna disease in Animals,"Current Topics in Microbiology and Immunology, 190:17-30, 1995.

 

5. Briese T, Lipkin WI and de la Torre JC, "Molecular biology of Borna disease virus," Current Topics in Microbiology and Immunology, 190:1-16, 1995.

 

6. Bignall J, "Staggering cats at Queens'," Lancet, 349, (9057), 1997.

 

7. Lundgren AL, Zimmerman W, Bode L, Czech G, Gosztonyi G, Lindberg R and Ludwig H, "Staggering disease in cats: Isolation and characterization of the feline Borna disease virus," Journal of General Virology, 76(Pt 9):2215-22, 1995.

 

8. Amsterdam JD, Winokur A, Dyson W, et al, "Borna disease virus: A possible etiologic factor in human affective disorders?," Archives of General Psychiatry, 42(11):1093-6, 1985.

 

9. Ludwig H, Bode L and Gosztonyi G, "Borna disease: A persistent virus infection of the central nervous system," Progress in Medical Virology, 35:107-51, 1988.

 

10. Bode L, "Human infections with Borna disease virus and potential pathogenic implications,"Current Topics in Microbiology and Immunology, 190:103-30, 1995.

 

11. Solbrig MV, Fallon JH and Lipkin WI, "Behavioral disturbances and pharmacology of Borna disease," Current Topics in Microbiology and Immunology, 190:93-101, 1995.

 

12. Nakaya T, Takahashi H, Nakamura Y, Asahi S, Tobiume M, Kuratsune H, Kitani T, Yamanishi K and Ikuta K, "Demonstration of Borna disease virus RNA in peripheral blood mononuclear cells derived from Japanese patients with chronic fatigue syndrome," FEBS Letters, 378(2):145-9, 1996.

 

13. Wright P and Murray RM, "Schizophrenia: Prenatal influenza and autoimmunity," Annals of Medicine, 25(5):497-502, 1993.

 

14. Torrey EF, Taylor EH, Bracha HS, et al, "Prenatal origin of schizophrenia in a subgroup of discordant monozygotic twins," Schizophrenia Bulletin, 20(3):423-32, 1994.

 

15. Roy MA, Flaum MA, Gupta S, et al, "Epidemiological and clinical correlates of familial and sporadic schizophrenia," Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, 89(5):324-8, 1994.

 

16. Susser ES and Lin SP, "Schizophrenia after prenatal exposure to the Dutch Hunger Winter of 1944-1945," Archives of General Psychiatry, 49(12):983-8, 1992.

 

17. Susser E, Neugebauer R, Hoek HW, et al, "Schizophrenia after prenatal famine. Further evidence," Archives of General Psychiatry, 53(1):25-31, 1996.

 

18. Huttunen MO, Machon RA and Mednick SA, "Prenatal factors in the pathogenesis of schizophrenia," British Journal of Psychiatry - Supplement, 164(23):15-19, 1994.

 

19. Rifkin L, Lewis S, Jones P, et al, "Low birth weight and schizophrenia," British Journal of Psychiatry, 165(3):357-62, 1994.

 

20. Yolken RH and Torrey EF, "Viruses, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder," Clinical Microbiology Reviews, 8(1):131-45, 1995.

 

21. Brown JS, "Geographic correlation of schizophrenia to ticks and tick-borne encephalitis," Schizophrenia Bulletin, 20(4):755-75, 1994.

 

22. Torrey EF and Yolken RH, "Could schizophrenia be a viral zoonosis transmitted from house cats?," Schizophrenia Bulletin, 21(2):167-71, 1995.

 

23. Morse SS, Emerging Viruses, Oxford University Press, New York, 1993.

 

24. Bode L, Dietrich DE, Stoyloff R, Emrich HM and Ludwig H, "Amantadine and human Borna disease virus in vitro and in vivo in an infected patient with bipolar depression," Lancet, 349:178, 1997.

 

25. Bode L, Komaroff and Ludwig H, "No serologic evidence of Borna disease virus in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome," Clinical Infectious Diseases, 15(6):1049, 1992.

 

26. Bode L, Rigel S, Ludwig H, Amsterdam JD, Lange W and Koprowski H, "Borna disease virus-specific antibodies in patients with HIV infection and with mental disorders," Lancet, 2(8612):689, 1988.

 

27. Bode L, Zimmerman W, Ferszt R, Steinbach F and Ludwig H, "Borna disease virus genome transcribed and expressed in psychiatric patients," Nature Medicine, 1(3):232-6, 1995.

.................................................mhj

[HappytheStripper]

Ashley nods in agreement .. I trap possums for a living and have studied the many diseases animals spread ..

 

Pretty amazing article you produce ..

 

Regards Ashley ..

[Queso]

haha, so do i.

[Queso]

Life is ****ing menacing though,

I don't blame the depressed ones,

I feel it, too.

 

It's so beautiful, though.

You just gotta acknowledge the balance

in all things,

and everything is OK

'cause it's just like waves.

[HappytheStripper]

Like I said..

 

Quit your Stupid *** trip...

Depression?

Cry me a f*n river mate..:ebaskbal: Do some Pansies.

 

Everyone on this site has problems mate!

 

I got Stalker Chicks!! :thumbs_up

They won't let go! tell me you got problems....

 

Wake-up, smell the Coffeee, ask some good advice, pray the Good Lord, and all will be well...

 

I have to lock my goddamned Mailbox!!

 

I can see you are far from depressed .. I am impressed lol .. depression is only a word ..

 

Stalker chicks .. ugh !!! Now thats playing with fire .. :dog: I'd love to have a stalker .. haha I had a few .. but they all dead now .. thank god ..

 

Ash

 

<me locks your mailbox and scans mail>

[Cedars]

 

I got Stalker Chicks!! :confused:

They won't let go! tell me you got problems....

 

Wake-up, smell the Coffeee, ask some good advice, pray the Good Lord, and all will be well...

 

I have to lock my goddamned Mailbox!!

 

Stalker chics? More than one? What did you do to provoke/attract multiple cases of this???

 

You need a steath cam for your mailbox. :confused:

[Cedars]

"Clinical Depression" is different from being 'depressed'.

It is unfortunate that we don't have another name for "Clinical Depression"

They are not the same thing at all.

Clinical Depression is totally life debilitating.

 

Some scientists think that this is the case with a virus called the Borna virus. Now right at the beginning, I should tell you that this is still a controversial story, and that not all scientists agree.

 

However, other scientists are more sceptical. For example they say amantadine is already well known for its anti-depressive effect, and they claim that it works by binding to some receptors in the brain, not by killing the virus. They also claim that the technique used to detect the virus is so sensitive that it can find a few virus particles floating in the air in the laboratories - in other words, that if you look hard enough, you'll find this virus everywhere. ""

 

It would be nice if they can determine a viral cause for at least some of the depression seen. It would help the depressed also I think. To have a cause other than 'its all in your head' as so many are told would give an avenue of explanation that others can understand better. Someone expressed their fustration in dealing with people who just didnt understand head problems. "I sometimes think I should bandage my head when I am going thru a down time. At least there would be something physical people could see and know there is a problem. People with a broken leg have a cast other can see. When my depression is acting up, its not like others can see the cast" or something to that effect.

 

I think it would aid people who need to take pills for this problem also. I think its easier to accept that you need a pill each day because of a virus in your system.

[Michaelangelica]

Sometimes Depression can be caused by other diseases. that is why a complete medical is a good idea.

 

Hypothyroid ism and Pituitary and thyroid problems generally are often under-diagnosed. (google "Thyroid symptoms" for more info; Mary Shomon's site is good)

 

Prescription and other drugs too can be a problem. The acne pill given to the young Australian boy is a case in point. Who would expect a pimple pill to cause suicidal depression?

 

Young males between the ages of 15 to 21-2 are most at risk. The period of the so called "testosterone storm". The chance of males dying at this age is many times greater than females. Take seriously any change in behaviour of (especially male) friends at this age (isolating oneself from friends and family, poor concentration,weight change -up or down, lack of interest in things that usually give pleasure, sadness, happiness (-jolly face sad clown), dropping academic grades, moodiness, preoccupation with death, general anxiety are all pointers.

This is a good website to study the issue more

http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=&gclid=CK7J5o_9j4UCFR04GAodcTQ4Dg

 

Depression is the leading cause of non-fatal disability in Australia.

[Michaelangelica]

this is the sort of thing you will find on the Beyond Blue website.

though sometimes for severly depressed none of this works

 

Exercise and depression

Home / Media centre / Media background kits / Exercise and depression

 

Key facts

 

*

Physical activity can be effective in the prevention and management of depression and anxiety.

*

Research shows that regular physical activity leads to a 17-28% reduced risk of developing depression in men (20-year follow up study). People who did not take part in physical activity were more likely to have depressive symptoms compared with people who exercised regularly.

*

Regular aerobic and strength training activities of light or moderate intensity can lead up to a 50% reduction in symptoms of depression and anxiety, especially for women and older people.

*

In older people, exercise has been found to be just as beneficial as antidepressant medication or social contact in the treatment of depression.

*

The cycle of depression can be broken by doing pleasurable activities, including keeping fit (riding a bike, jogging, playing football or going for a 20 minute walk).

 

How can physical exercise help mental health?

 

 

 

*

Exercise can lift mood, aid uninterrupted sleep, increase energy, decrease fatigue and lead to an improved sense of wellbeing in the general population.

*

Exercise may block negative thoughts or distract people from daily worries.

*

If a person exercises with other people it can increase social contact.

*

Compared to people without depression, depressed people generally have lower fitness levels.

*

Exercising releases natural chemicals in our brains (endorphins) that have a similar uplifting effect as prescription antidepressants.