Obesity: Why are we getting fat? :epizza:

[Racoon]

Obesity is not always a personal option. Researchers have discovered three new genetic variations that increase the risk of obesity, giving new insight into the reasons why some people become fat and others don't.

 

They suggest that if each acted independently, these variants could be responsible for up to 50 percent of cases of severe obesity.

 

According to researchers, the new findings should ultimately provide the tools to predict which young children are at risk of becoming obese.

 

Obesity in adults and children; Why some people become fat and others don't

 

 

How convenient.

 

Those genetic "variations" occured when??

Before X-Box and Doritos and Soda Pop?

 

The risk for young children becoming Obese is easy to see. They don't go outside and run around, ride bikes, and play anymore..

 

Give the Genetics a rest already.

Its not anyones fault, Its a Blameless society where nobody takes action/responsibility for their self or children anymore..

 

I don't see kids in Africa having an Obesity problem.

[interval]

How convenient.

 

Those genetic "variations" occured when??

Before X-Box and Doritos and Soda Pop?

 

The risk for young children becoming Obese is easy to see. They don't go outside and run around, ride bikes, and play anymore..

 

Give the Genetics a rest already.

Its not anyones fault, Its a Blameless society where nobody takes action/responsibility for their self or children anymore..

 

I don't see kids in Africa having an Obesity problem.

 

You are right, Racoon. And I am right too. Genetic only puts people at obesity risk. Lifestyle does the rest. If one prone to obesity has a balanced diet and is engaged in physical activity, he will have a normal weight.

[Nitack]

Obesity is not always a personal option. Researchers have discovered three new genetic variations that increase the risk of obesity, giving new insight into the reasons why some people become fat and others don't.

 

They suggest that if each acted independently, these variants could be responsible for up to 50 percent of cases of severe obesity.

 

According to researchers, the new findings should ultimately provide the tools to predict which young children are at risk of becoming obese.

 

Obesity in adults and children; Why some people become fat and others don't

 

This is rubbish. The fact of the matter is that if you are gaining fat, you took in more Calories than your body needed in a given amount of time to perform all of it's functions. Genetics can change how much energy your body requires through out the day, but it can't make you gain weight if you are not taking in more Calories than you need. It is impossible.

 

How convenient.

 

Those genetic "variations" occured when??

Before X-Box and Doritos and Soda Pop?

 

The risk for young children becoming Obese is easy to see. They don't go outside and run around, ride bikes, and play anymore..

 

Give the Genetics a rest already.

Its not anyones fault, Its a Blameless society where nobody takes action/responsibility for their self or children anymore..

 

I don't see kids in Africa having an Obesity problem.

 

Thank you for calling bullshit Racoon. Everyone is desperate to find an excuse for their being fat other than their own actions. Blame genetics, disease, specific foods, etc, and people feel better about themselves because they are not responsible for their own misery.

 

Check out this report... Metabolism alone doesn't explain how thin people stay thin

 

Findings from the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver has found that thin people don't stay thin because of some genetic component, but rather because they eat less. They also found that people who gain weight do not actually realize how much they are eating (overeating).

[pamela]

every one is desperate to find an excuse?? how do you know that?

there are reasons not just excuses.....

how about this for an example-

My son is on anticonvulsants. He has switched them often as some worked and some just brought on horrible side effects .With each subsequent new med, he would put on several pounds within a 4 week period. I closely monitor his diet, prepare his own lunch for school, so as to avoid garbage. He gets some exercise, less than most twelve year olds. He cannot overexert himself, as a rapid increase in body temperature will trigger a seizure. He has a positive self image despite the weight and has learned to ignore the fat comments. We will continue to work on burning calories by means of walking and hiking, and as he continues to grow he should somewhat slim down. This is not an excuse but a reason for his borderline obesity.

[Nitack]

every one is desperate to find an excuse?? how do you know that?

there are reasons not just excuses.....

how about this for an example-

My son is on anticonvulsants. He has switched them often as some worked and some just brought on horrible side effects .With each subsequent new med, he would put on several pounds within a 4 week period. I closely monitor his diet, prepare his own lunch for school, so as to avoid garbage. He gets some exercise, less than most twelve year olds. He cannot overexert himself, as a rapid increase in body temperature will trigger a seizure. He has a positive self image despite the weight and has learned to ignore the fat comments. We will continue to work on burning calories by means of walking and hiking, and as he continues to grow he should somewhat slim down. This is not an excuse but a reason for his borderline obesity.

 

From what you said the reason for his borderline obesity is that he eats more calories than he burns. The reason why his body may require less Calories daily than another 12 year old might be related to his medication. No medication or condition can MAKE you gain weight. You have to take in more Calories than your body is using on a consistent basis to gain weight, the energy that the fat is storing can not just appear. Not trying to be insensitive here, just factually accurate.

[pamela]

do you not think it odd, that each time the meds change, there is a rapid increase in weight? I will research the correlation between the two, but I was warned by the doctor that it would happen.I am not saying the meds made him gain weight, but something ocurred metabolically or otherwise to have caused this effect. I am very careful about his diet, not in so much as the weight itself, but fat accumulation around his heart and blood pressure. Last monday in triage, his pressure was so high, it was frightening. You can't imagine how difficult this situation is. What would you have me do? drop his caloric intake to 1000 calories a day and deprive him of essential nutrients? I cannot. We can only hike a little more often as weather permits. I am confident that this is short term and gradually he will be able to exert more physical energy. As I stated in an earlier post, we have to look at the individual's needs. It is not so clearly black and white, there are some grey areas. I am in agreement with burning more than taking in, is what works. But for us, it has to be a gradual process

[modest]

No medication or condition can MAKE you gain weight. You have to take in more Calories than your body is using on a consistent basis to gain weight, the energy that the fat is storing can not just appear. Not trying to be insensitive here, just factually accurate.

 

Nitack, you seem incapable of thinking two levels deep on this issue.

 

If person A were to fatally shoot person B with a gun, then it's well-understood that person A killed person B. You are fixated on the bullet—saying that the cause of death is the bullet. You cannot seem to consider the gun that fired the bullet nor the hand that pulled the trigger, nor the person, nor the motives. You're just fixated on the physical cause of death—bullet through torso.

 

It is completely consistent for a bullet to cause death and for a person to cause death. These things are not mutually exclusive. You have no grounds or reason to object to other people who are examining this issue with greater depth than you are.

 

The listed side effect of almost all antidepressants is weight gain. Double-blind drug trials examining side effects show marked increase in body mass over placebo

Many antidepressants in all categories are associated with weight gain usually in the range of 5-25 kg (10-50 pounds) but not uncommonly upwards of 50 kg (100 pounds). The specific cause is unknown, but it is known that antidepressants are associated with increased cravings, an inability to feel full despite ingestion of adequate calories, low energy levels and increased daytime sleepiness which can lead to overeating and a lack of desire to exercise, and dry mouth which can lead to ingestion of calorie-laden beverages. In addition, the antihistaminic properties of certain TCAs, and NaSSa's have been shown to contribute at least in part to the common side effects of increased appetite and weight gain associated with these classes of medication. Eating low fat, low protein carbohydrate snacks and carbohydrate-rich dinners allows the brain to make serotonin which then controls appetite and balances mood. Carbohydrates thus eaten, as part of a balanced diet, by virtue of their effect on brain serotonin levels, thus support weight loss in the setting of antidepressant weight gain.

 

Antidepressant - Weight Gain

 

In a double-blind drug trial there is only one variable—the medication. It is then not only appropriate, it is PERTINENT to say "antidepressants cause weight gain". Do you see how this is consistent with the idea of conservation of energy (e.g. calories in / energy out)? Can you think 2 levels deep like this?

 

~modest

[Nitack]

Nitack, you seem incapable of thinking two levels deep on this issue.

 

If person A were to fatally shoot person B with a gun, then it's well-understood that person A killed person B. You are fixated on the bullet—saying that the cause of death is the bullet. You cannot seem to consider the gun that fired the bullet nor the hand that pulled the trigger, nor the person, nor the motives. You're just fixated on the physical cause of death—bullet through torso.

 

It is completely consistent for a bullet to cause death and for a person to cause death. These things are not mutually exclusive. You have no grounds or reason to object to other people who are examining this issue with greater depth than you are.

 

The listed side effect of almost all antidepressants is weight gain. Double-blind drug trials examining side effects show marked increase in body mass over placebo

 

In a double-blind drug trial there is only one variable—the medication. It is then not only appropriate, it is PERTINENT to say "antidepressants cause weight gain". Do you see how this is consistent with the idea of conservation of energy (e.g. calories in / energy out)? Can you think 2 levels deep like this?

 

~modest

 

I am fixated on what is actually happening. Understanding that weight gain can only come from an excess of Calories lets one really start controlling the variables, Calorie input and Calorie expenditure. Saying "this medication will cause me to gain weight" cedes power in the situation to your medication. Saying "this medication will slow my metabolism" keeps the power in your hands, because the next sentence is "so I need to adjust A, B, and C."

 

I am looking at it from a different angle than you. Using your analogy. You are all fixated on person A, while I am fixated in taking the gun out of his hands.

[Nitack]

 

In a double-blind drug trial there is only one variable—the medication. It is then not only appropriate, it is PERTINENT to say "antidepressants cause weight gain". Do you see how this is consistent with the idea of conservation of energy (e.g. calories in / energy out)? Can you think 2 levels deep like this?

 

~modest

 

I realize that it feels good to talk down to me, but I really am seeing deeper into this than you seem to think I am or appear to be yourself. I'm reaching towards the reason behind WHY anti-depressants cause weight gain and then reconciling that with the laws of conservation of energy. The constant in all this is the law of conservation of energy, everything else is a variable. If the LoCE is constant, and food intake as is constant, and weight gain results, then Calorie expenditure has gone down. The next step is not to say "I can't do anything about it". The next step is to realize that if your metabolism went down your body was able to accomplish everything it did with excess Calories and adjust accordingly. You may be 2 levels deep on this one, but I am at 3, you just didn't realize it :eek:

[pamela]

Interesting to note from your article Modest, I give him several aminos to regulate his neurotransmitter activity. He is calmer and his happy well being would suggest they are working.There is most likely a connection between the anticonvulsants and antidepressants as far as the weight increase goes.Antihistamines can actually trigger a seizure, so maybe it's another part of the composition of the drug.

 

Nitack his appetite is poor at best and I have to make sure that he eats something for fuel. His appetite is only good, when he is full of energy, running around, jumping on my head and generally driving mom nuts. It is at that point, I may want your gun aimed at me;)

[modest]

Saying "this medication will cause me to gain weight" cedes power in the situation to your medication. Saying "this medication will slow my metabolism" keeps the power in your hands, because the next sentence is "so I need to adjust A, B, and C."

 

This objection you have is entirely a mirage of your own making. When I say that our fast-food, super-size, junk food, American lifestyle causes weight gain—you imagine for some odd reason that I'm trying to shift personal responsibility for ones health onto society. That I'm trying to blame McDonalds for so-and-so's gigantic gut. But, in this, you are missing the truth of the situation.

 

We, as an American society are getting fat. There are sociological reasons for this. Perhaps we need to increase the amount of physical education at our schools or get the vending machines out of the schools and public buildings. Maybe we could create the kind of exercise at work custom they have in Japan. Like this, there are many sociological things that can be done.

 

But, it does not help when someone asks "why are we getting fat" and people want to look at scientific reasons for this "obesity epidemic" but they can't get past the trolls who only accept 'fat people are lazy and they eat too much'.

 

If I say "antidepressants cause weight gain", I'm not giving the medication power. I'm not shifting responsibility. This is something that you're imagining. I'm stating a fact that people need to deal with. If I know that antidepressants cause weight gain then I'll need to consciously increase my daily activities and accept that I'm going to be hungry most of the time. It's OK to inform people that antidepressants have this side effect.

 

Genetics are a factor in obesity. Monozygotic twins who are separated at birth and raised in separate environments will have similar weight / overweight profiles. If all 4 of a child's grandparents are obese then there is a very good chance that such a person will tend to be obese. This is not shifting the blame. It's not an excuse. It is nothing more than recognizing the pharmacological and biological factors that need to be dealt with.

 

If you and your spouse have both struggled with obesity your whole life then you need to start teaching your child activities and lifestyle choices at a young age that will help him/her deal with a problem that he/she most-likely will have. When the genetic aspect of obesity is understood it allows this kind of decision making.

 

~modest

[Nitack]

First and foremost, I strongly object to being called a troll. I am not coming here and simply saying "The fatties need to move more and eat less". I have based all my arguments on sound scientific principles and know that I contribute in a more meaningful way than a troll does. You owe me an apology sir, or it shall be pistols at dawn!

This objection you have is entirely a mirage of your own making. When I say that our fast-food, super-size, junk food, American lifestyle causes weight gain—you imagine for some odd reason that I'm trying to shift personal responsibility for ones health onto society. That I'm trying to blame McDonalds for so-and-so's gigantic gut. But, in this, you are missing the truth of the situation.

 

We, as an American society are getting fat. There are sociological reasons for this. Perhaps we need to increase the amount of physical education at our schools or get the vending machines out of the schools and public buildings. Maybe we could create the kind of exercise at work custom they have in Japan. Like this, there are many sociological things that can be done.

 

But, it does not help when someone asks "why are we getting fat" and people want to look at scientific reasons for this "obesity epidemic" but they can't get past the trolls who only accept 'fat people are lazy and they eat too much'.

 

If I say "antidepressants cause weight gain", I'm not giving the medication power. I'm not shifting responsibility. This is something that you're imagining. I'm stating a fact that people need to deal with. If I know that antidepressants cause weight gain then I'll need to consciously increase my daily activities and accept that I'm going to be hungry most of the time. It's OK to inform people that antidepressants have this side effect.

 

Genetics are a factor in obesity. Monozygotic twins who are separated at birth and raised in separate environments will have similar weight / overweight profiles. If all 4 of a child's grandparents are obese then there is a very good chance that such a person will tend to be obese. This is not shifting the blame. It's not an excuse. It is nothing more than recognizing the pharmacological and biological factors that need to be dealt with.

 

If you and your spouse have both struggled with obesity your whole life then you need to start teaching your child activities and lifestyle choices at a young age that will help him/her deal with a problem that he/she most-likely will have. When the genetic aspect of obesity is understood it allows this kind of decision making.

 

~modest

 

We seem to be arguing a similar direction but along different parallels. You say the fast food/sedentary lifestyle is causing weight gain. I say the decision to accept the fast food/sedentary lifestyle is causing weight gain. I think the distinction on the decision to live that lifestyle is important because every person does have options, every person can make the decision to live differently.

 

You are not quite factually correct in some of your statements and that is what I am trying to get at. Anti-depressants DO NOT CAUSE WEIGHT GAIN, but they do cause a lowering of a persons BMR. Genetics are a factor in obesity, but they are not making anyone fat. There was not a sudden mutation in the majority of the species 40 years ago that started us down the road to obesity. What we do have to thank genetics for is that some people have genes that allow their bodies to more efficiently use energy and accomplish the same feat (living through another day) while using less energy than other people. This amazing talent at one time was a benefit (when the species was feast or famine) but has grown into a liability during our new found abundance of Calories.

 

I'll leave you with this to ponder:

Metabolism alone doesn't explain how thin people stay thin

Metabolism alone doesn't explain how thin people stay thin

August 19, 2008 | John Schieszer

 

More important factors may be differences in food intake and activity, and the fact that people who gain weight may not truly realize how much they consume

MORE NUTRITION

 

SAN FRANCISCO | Metabolism alone may not explain why some people are fat or thin, according to a study presented at this year’s annual Endocrine Society meeting here.

 

It is unclear how some individuals remain thin in the current obesigenic environment that promotes significant weight gain in the majority of people. However, researchers with the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver say it is not because thin people have a faster metabolism or metabolize their food differently than obese people.

 

“The causes of obesity are complicated and likely cannot be solely explained on differences in rates of metabolism,” said Dr. Daniel Bessesen, an endocrinologist and professor of medicine at this institution.

 

More at link posted above...

[modest]

Interesting to note from your article Modest, I give him several aminos to regulate his neurotransmitter activity. He is calmer and his happy well being would suggest they are working.There is most likely a connection between the anticonvulsants and antidepressants as far as the weight increase goes.Antihistamines can actually trigger a seizure, so maybe it's another part of the composition of the drug.

 

That could be. I'm always scared whenever I'm on more than one medication. I know the fear is unfounded, but I feel like my doctor really wouldn't know if there is some crazy interaction, or maybe she didn't check.

 

Have you thought about taking him to a nutritionist? My sister's best friend is a nutritionist and she is actually very-well educated. I always figured nutritionists were kind of pseudo-professionals. But, that's certainly not the case with her.

 

~modest

[pamela]

you bring up a good point about the schools, Modest. Years ago, recess meant running around outside and having fun. In Upstate NY, where I grew up, that meant even in the snow:)Sledding during recess, not only was fun, but we burned calories. Now recess is pretty much nonexistant. Physical Education is only held three days a week here for middle school and only for half of the year. High School requirements for P. E., are only for the freshman year. The school system essentially has decreased the amount of physical activity that used to be the norm. The food provided for both breakfast and lunch qualifies as junk, even the teachers will not eat it. Vending machines are centrally located for those that wish that sugary laden substance. Ice cream and cookies are available as well.

By not providing healthy food and allowing this junk, we may as well be advocating that his is how we should eat. What good is it to teach children about the food pyramid and healthy eating habits, when the school system contradicts what is being taught.

[pamela]

Modest, you should be concerned and your fears are not unwarranted. Depending on the medications, even over the counter products, can cause serious implications when taken with prescriptions.

As far as a nutritionist, I have been researching for myself for many years. I have had to prepare modified diets for both of my children. My oldest was diagnosed at age 5 with intermittant explosive disorder. In order to avoid such meds as Ritalin, I carefully controlled what he consumed. All items were prepared from scratch, including bread. Most foods contain such evils as dyes and nitrates, which would trigger symptoms. The episodes subsided within weeks, and now at age 17, there is no indication that he had ever suffered from such a condition. I believe diet plays a very important role, not only in obesity, but in many of the diagnoses, that currently plague our children.

[Kayra]

While some people ARE genetically predisposed to retaining fat and others ARE genetically predisposed to stronger or consistent physical activity, these genetic factors have not really changed in the last 100 years, and likely only changed slightly in the last 10,000. Genetic factors are NOT the cause of the recent changes in large chunk (sorry for the pun) of our society. It simply can not be.

 

Many of the examples given i this discussion (large by nature, medication, etc.) point to individual examples to make a point, and in circles of science, the individual example is usually discarded in favor larger datasets.

 

Nitack, you consistently argue your point based on your personal experiences, and those experiences appear (IMHO) to be blinding you to any other perspective. Your natural predisposition to be large, and your powerful personal drive to overcome this genetic predisposition appears to have given you the perspective that all the entire society needs to do is follow your example to resolve the issue. While your solution is laudable, and even encouraged, it is pretty improbably that the majority of overweight people would be likely to try, and even if they did, unlikely to maintain that lifestyle. furthermore, it is pointed to as a sollution when the puropose of the thread is to determine the problem.

 

The insistence that a simple (and accurate) formula bears the answer is again IMO grossly simplifying a very complex situation. It treats the body as a simple mechanism instead of a vastly complex soup of genetically driven parts. All the formula can do is point us in a very general direction as to what is causing the problem. If it is just an increase in calories, or a reduction in physical activity, either could likely be resolved by educating the public and embarking on long term campaigns to correct the issues. This would in effect be an engineered social change, and we have done them before.

 

Modest, Nitack is correct that genetics is unlikely to be the direct cause of obesity (unless the American society is having a genetic revolution the rest of the world is missing). Although it may very well point to the real problem. Something in the American environment, whether it be:

• general changes to the type of food consumed,
  
• the amount of encouraged activity,
  
• video games,
  
• social discouragement of physical activity,
  
• increase in technology that reduces the need for exercise,
  
• trace amounts of chemicals in the food supply,
  
• trace contamination in the water,
  
• etc,
  

is likely playing against on one or more existing genetic traits. While it is convenient to blame these genetic hitches, the better question is why they are being activated or played upon now.

 

What in the American society is causing these genetic traits to be activated (or suppressed). The only way to find the answer is to understand the problem, and we are not there yet.

 

I believe we need a fuller understanding of the complex and myriad mechanisms that control not only weight, but appetite and desire to be active or inactive, before we can begin to answer the very valid question this thread has posed.

 

In the end, I would bet the answer to why is going to be tied to a combination of changing diet, manual labor reduction through automation, increased leisure time, and at least on factor in our food chain that is not readily apparent.

[modest]

First and foremost, I strongly object to being called a troll. I am not coming here and simply saying "The fatties need to move more and eat less". I have based all my arguments on sound scientific principles and know that I contribute in a more meaningful way than a troll does. You owe me an apology sir, or it shall be pistols at dawn!

 

Nitack,

 

Go back and read Interval’s post. He points out an extensive research project done in the genetics of obesity. The results were just release days ago, and he posts it in this thread making a positive contribution. After Racoon completely mischaracterizes his post, Interval says this:

 

You are right, Racoon. And I am right too. Genetic only puts people at obesity risk. Lifestyle does the rest. If one prone to obesity has a balanced diet and is engaged in physical activity, he will have a normal weight.

 

Which you call rubbish and bullshit, further commenting "Everyone is desperate to find an excuse for their being fat other than their own actions. Blame genetics, disease, specific foods, etc, and people feel better about themselves because they are not responsible for their own misery."

 

This was Interval's 11th post... If anyone needs an apology.

 

~modest