Obesity: Why are we getting fat? :epizza:

[modest]

Kayra,

 

As usual, you are spot on. I think our understanding of national trends of adiposity is very poorly understood. Any understanding (and especially any possible national solutions) would require psychology, sociology, biology, and (perhaps most of all) education. Drawing together so many disciplines and understanding something as difficult as human behavior on a national scale is a very daunting challenge.

 

~modest

[Nitack]

Nitack, you consistently argue your point based on your personal experiences, and those experiences appear (IMHO) to be blinding you to any other perspective. Your natural predisposition to be large, and your powerful personal drive to overcome this genetic predisposition appears to have given you the perspective that all the entire society needs to do is follow your example to resolve the issue. While your solution is laudable, and even encouraged, it is pretty improbably that the majority of overweight people would be likely to try, and even if they did, unlikely to maintain that lifestyle. furthermore, it is pointed to as a sollution when the puropose of the thread is to determine the problem.

 

Your statement seems to confuse the truth of my reasoning and solution with the inability of a large portion of the population to discipline themselves. The question asked is "Why are we getting fat". Certain conditions, medications, and genetics can predisposition us to gaining weight because they change our metabolism in some way, but that does not invalidate the explanation at all that those individuals are not moving enough and are eating too much.

 

The insistence that a simple (and accurate) formula bears the answer is again IMO grossly simplifying a very complex situation. It treats the body as a simple mechanism instead of a vastly complex soup of genetically driven parts. All the formula can do is point us in a very general direction as to what is causing the problem. If it is just an increase in calories, or a reduction in physical activity, either could likely be resolved by educating the public and embarking on long term campaigns to correct the issues. This would in effect be an engineered social change, and we have done them before.

 

I think my argument has been misunderstood. I have never said that losing weight or solving the obesity epidemic is simple. What I said is that it is ultimately a matter of Calories in vs. Calories out and that the equation is simple. The various factors that affect each side of the equation are very complicated. My whole point, hopelessly lost in all this, is that once you start to understand how different things effect different sides of the equation that you can attempt to manipulate the equation in beneficial ways to compensate.

 

As to the bolded statement. I still believe it is just an increase in calories and a reduction in physical activity. Could educating the public resolve the situation... not likely. This does not indicate a fault in the premise or the logic behind it though. History is riddled with examples of individuals who are educated but still make stupid choices. We even have an axiom for it: Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. The inability of the masses to put their education to use does not indicate a fault in the education they have received or the subject of that education.

[Nitack]

Nitack,

 

Go back and read Interval’s post. He points out an extensive research project done in the genetics of obesity. The results were just release days ago, and he posts it in this thread making a positive contribution. After Racoon completely mischaracterizes his post, Interval says this:

 

 

 

Which you call rubbish and bullshit, further commenting "Everyone is desperate to find an excuse for their being fat other than their own actions. Blame genetics, disease, specific foods, etc, and people feel better about themselves because they are not responsible for their own misery."

 

This was Interval's 11th post... If anyone needs an apology.

 

~modest

Read the entirety of my posting rather than cherry picking one line. If anything, my arguments are in step with Interval's. Genetics can alter one side of the equation but lifestyle is the true cause.

 

You still owe me an apology, I am no troll.

[Kayra]

Nitack, I believe I understood your position, and if not please clarify where I went wrong. I often get confused when there are this many posts to catch up on.

 

I believe your argument is akin to saying there is war in the middle east because there are two opposing sides unwilling to give ground, and as long as there are two opposing sides there will be war.

 

While accurate, the statement is far to general to be helpful in understanding the cause/effect of a complex situation.

 

You have in effect stated quite clearly and repeatedly (unless I am misreading things) that solving the obesity epidemic is simple. It is only that part of your perspective that I was at odds with. It would appear I was misreading your intent. I had made the assumption that your own life experiences and issues, and the solutions you had come up with were being put forward as a suggestion for solving a problem that we were still trying to specifically identify. If they were not, then I fail to understand their relevance to the topic. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Personally I think we have a wonderful tool to help us in identifying the source of the problem. We have to look in depth at the differences in societies becoming obese to ones that are not. Look for commonalities in those that are, and use ones that are not to eliminate commonalities (such as diet or social aspects) from the areas to be investigated.

 

If nothing else, this should reduce the areas that need to be looked into to a reasonable number.

[Nitack]

Personally I think we have a wonderful tool to help us in identifying the source of the problem. We have to look in depth at the differences in societies becoming obese to ones that are not. Look for commonalities in those that are, and use ones that are not to eliminate commonalities (such as diet or social aspects) from the areas to be investigated.

 

If nothing else, this should reduce the areas that need to be looked into to a reasonable number.

 

My understanding is that Obesity is spreading world wide to every area with the exception of sub-Saharan Africa. Everywhere else you can find obesity rates rising and consequently, the amount of Calories available per capita has also risen much more dramatically in those regions.

 

USDA: frsept99b

[Kayra]

Thanks for clarifying Nitack.

 

So you are putting forward that the sole (or main ) cause of obesity is simply an increase in caloric intake?

[Nitack]

Thanks for clarifying Nitack.

 

So you are putting forward that the sole (or main ) cause of obesity is simply an increase in caloric intake?

 

Main, yes. As you agreed with me earlier, if this were an issue of genetics it would not have manifested itself so prolifically in the last few decades. In addition, over 50% of the US population is considered obese or overweight according to the CDC. Can we really say that over half of the US population has some genetic/hormonal/disease/condition that is "causing" this?

 

The sudden rise of obesity in my eyes points to a cause of nurture and not nature. If this was a question of nature, we would have seen this manifest a lot sooner. My premise that if it is a question of nurture, well we can change learned behavior and habits in order to reverse the situation, but the question is are the masses willing to give up their instant gratification lifestyle in favor of a more healthy lifestyle.

[Kayra]

Your statement seems to confuse the truth of my reasoning and solution with the inability of a large portion of the population to discipline themselves. The question asked is "Why are we getting fat". Certain conditions, medications, and genetics can predisposition us to gaining weight because they change our metabolism in some way, but that does not invalidate the explanation at all that those individuals are not moving enough and are eating too much.

 

Simple and truthful observation. It really does answer the question the thread posed, but again not in a useful or actionable way.

 

I think we are trying to grasp the "Why" of the reduced activity or increased caloric intake. With that understanding a meaningful solution can be formulated. Some answers seem obvious, some not. I would bet the true answers would surprise us all (That was not a really helpful statement either :eek_big: )

[Nitack]

My Solution: The Walking Desk

 

I bought a used treadmill off of Craigslist, custom built a desk that would be at the perfect height to use while walking on the treadmill, and now have turned normally sedentary work, surfing the web, and playing computer games into physically active activities.

 

Inspired by this article at Men's Health

Diet Strategies: Increase Metabolism - Men's Health

 

If you like the idea, curious about the actual use, or want to build your own and need some pointers don't hesitate to ask. :eek_big:

[Kayra]

I would suspect that is more of a personal then global solution.

[Nitack]

I would suspect that is more of a personal then global solution.

 

You said that there are sociological reasons that need to be considered. One sociological reason is absolutely our way of working... sitting behind a desk. Outfit every desk this way and we have a change to one of the core issues in our society that leads to obesity. If the standard working station was a standing/walking station, how many more Calories would the average person use in a day? Maybe not enough to offset increased food consumption, but definately enough to slow down the weight gain and possibly even turn it around.

[Moontanman]

You said that there are sociological reasons that need to be considered. One sociological reason is absolutely our way of working... sitting behind a desk. Outfit every desk this way and we have a change to one of the core issues in our society that leads to obesity. If the standard working station was a standing/walking station, how many more Calories would the average person use in a day? Maybe not enough to offset increased food consumption, but definately enough to slow down the weight gain and possibly even turn it around.

 

Nitack, you are over simplifying something that is really quite complex. It's like saying the answer to the danger of war is taking all the weapons away from every one, of course that would work but it's totally impractical to implement. I am getting fat and I know why, I still eat like I am a healthy 25 year old but I am not healthy, I have health problems that keep my from doing much exercise. On top of that the food I can afford is often the worst I can eat. simply cutting down on my intake in very difficult, far more so than I would have imagined when i was an active 25 year old. many people have metabolism problems that mean they have to eat so very little to keep from gaining weight it's doubly difficult for them. simply sating it's easy to cut back or exercise more is not true and insults lots of people who really do try to both exercise more and cut back. It's not a simple easy fix for everyone. As we grow older our food intake generally needs to decrease but it becomes easier to eat than it is to exercise. I like to eat, I enjoy foods, that often adds up to fat, then there is the fact that if we eat too little our metabolism actually slows down and makes it harder to loose weight. There are many factors that do not apply to everyone and no one thing can work for everyone. It is not as simple as eat less excercise more for many people.

[Kayra]

My understanding is that Obesity is spreading world wide to every area with the exception of sub-Saharan Africa. Everywhere else you can find obesity rates rising and consequently, the amount of Calories available per capita has also risen much more dramatically in those regions.

 

It may have some correlation to calories available per capita, but only VERY loosely.

Looking at Canada and the US, according to this chart. We have similar access to food type and income, and yet there is a DRASTIC difference in BMI. And Canada is not the only country where this correlation breaks down.

 

Outfit every desk this way and we have a change to one of the core issues in our society that leads to obesity.

 

Sorry Nitack, but I think that is an entirely silly suggestion and not really all that helpful. Aside from the astounding cost and immense waste (as most overweight people would likely not accept forced exercise as a solution), we Canadians have identical work habits in general and do not suffer from obesity to nearly the same degree.

 

Something else is at work here. Cultural is most likely, but certainly not a lock on the cause.

[Nitack]

My walking desk was half joke and half solution and half bragging about my handiwork. :eek_big:

[Moontanman]

Microbe Composition In Gut May Hold Key To One Cause Of Obesity

 

Microbe Composition In Gut May Hold Key To One Cause Of Obesity

ScienceDaily (Jan. 20, 2009) — Biodesign Institute in collaboration with colleagues at the Mayo Clinic, Arizona, and the University of Arizona, reveal a tantalizing link between differing microbial populations in the human gut and body weight among three distinct groups: normal weight individuals, those who have undergone gastric bypass surgery, and patients suffering the condition of morbid obesity—a serious, often life-threatening condition associated with diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cancer and psychosocial disorders. Obesity affects around 4 million Americans and, each year, some 300,000 die from obesity-related illness.

[Kayra]

You certainly have bragging rights, I doubt I could subject myself to that on a daily basis :confused:

 

Moontanman: Wonderful example of another aspect of obesity, efficiency of digestion.

 

I had forgotten how much bacteria aided in digestion. Some say as much at 25% of our food energy comes from this synergy, and that is statistically significant. Another aspect is how efficient our system is at

• Storing calories as fat
  
• Returning fat to our bloodstream for use as energy
  
• Using fat as a source of energy.
  

 

Each of these are separate systems with multiple chemical control paths.

 

Any one of these systems can be affected by trace chemicals from an environment or food chain and thrown slightly out of kilter. It would not take much as they are quite delicately balanced.

Obesity is a relatively recent problem (the last 30 years).

 

 

 

Nitack: Kudos on your personal victories and sorry I do not pick up on jokes that quickly.

[Michaelangelica]

The thing that is strange or "That's funny" about this obesity epidemic is that it is in many third world countries too not just the USA.

 

More on gut flora

Could Changing The Bacteria In Your Digestive System Be An Obesity Treatment?

several animal studies suggest that gut microbiota are involved in regulating weight and that modifying these bacteria could one day be a treatment option for obesity.

Could Changing The Bacteria In Your Digestive System Be An Obesity Treatment?

 

Antibiotics Can Cause Pervasive, Persistent Changes To Microbiota In Human Gut

Antibiotics Can Cause Pervasive, Persistent Changes To Microbiota In Human Gut

 

Many animals such as pigs and meat chickens are routinely, daily, fed anti-biotics as this makes them put on weight faster. Thus making the farmer more money quicker, and saves on feed costs.

There is a lot of criticism of this widespread (almost universal?) practice.

Many believe we should not be using antibiotics for this trivial purpose as it potentially makes the ant-biotic resistance problem worse.

 

I wonder if the anti-biotics stay in the meat when consumed by us?