Obesity: Why are we getting fat? :epizza:

[paigetheoracle]

I personally still believe it isn't viral but allergic because of the worldwide rise in this as well (different manifestation but same large amount = same cause?). If it's viral what advantage does the virus have an inflating the hosts body or is this being argued as a side effect? When somebody is poisoned, doesn't the body naturally inflate as the body tries to dilute the toxin or am I barking up the wrong tree and if so why?:xparty:

[Michaelangelica]

Your Food Allergies Are Making You Fat

Your Food Allergies Are Making You Fat

This image shows how interlinked the immune system, and response is to diet and other exposures. Inflammation caused from food could be one factor in weight gain and preventing weight loss. Photo credit: NIH

 

I think the system is a bit simpler.

Just as the body warps toxic chemicals it cannot excrete (metals,chlorinated hydrocarbons, organophosphates, endosulphan?) in fat, and tucks them away somewhere. So too, the same process could work with allergens- especially food intolerances-the inability to break down complex amino acids into a usable form (eg milk allergy?)

 

SEE

Chemical Used on Crops could Make You Fat

 

Pollution can make you fat, study claims - Health News, Health & Wellbeing - The Independent

 

Is Toxicity Making you Fat?

 

Chemicals Can Make You Fat

[Racoon]

So after this big long discussion and evaluation Michael, whats your synopsis??.

 

Everything from Genes, to allergies, to corporate mass produced food makes you FAT. :phones:

 

The time comes to answer the question: "What makes you burn calories? , so you don't get fat " ??

 

I'm surprised you keep putting up articles and stuff that blame everything but the people themselves for being fat. Personal accountability and decisions make a person Fat or not.

 

The info is out there. You've stated every reason why fat people are fat, but it hasn't changed anything.

 

Seriously, this thread should end..

Its not Rocket Science.

Its Basic Accounting. as in Calories > Expenditure = Fat

[Nitack]

Seriously, this thread should end..

Its not Rocket Science.

Its Basic Accounting. as in Calories > Expenditure = Fat

 

The exact point I tried to make all along but was shouted down as oversimplifying it. I still don't think some people actually understood the point I was making. It is SIMPLE, basic, accounting. Every factor, kind of food, gene, condition, and every other excuse only alter one of the parts of the basic equation, but does not change the fact that the equation is still pretty simple.

[Michaelangelica]

atrazine (ATZ),

There is an apparent overlap between areas in the USA where the herbicide, atrazine (ATZ), is heavily used and obesity-prevalence maps of people with a BMI over 30. Given that herbicides act on photosystem II of the thylakoid membrane of chloroplasts, which have a functional structure similar to mitochondria, we investigated whether chronic exposure to low concentrations of ATZ might cause obesity or insulin resistance by damaging mitochondrial function.

. . .

These results suggest that long-term exposure to the herbicide ATZ might contribute to the development of insulin resistance and obesity, particularly where a high-fat diet is prevalent.

A Blog Around The Clock : New and Exciting in PLoS ONE

Studies of 'good' fat could help with weight loss

Here's what the scientists learned about brown fat:

 

_ Lean people had far more than overweight and obese people, especially among older folks.

 

_ It burns far more calories and generates more body heat when people are in a cooler environment.

 

_ Women were more likely to have it than men, and their deposits were larger and more active.

 

Studies of 'good' fat could help with weight loss

Among 4-year-olds, 1 in 5 obese, study finds

Among 4-year-olds, 1 in 5 obese, study finds

[Michaelangelica]

Popular Science

The Unusual Suspects

Researchers are uncovering some pretty strange culprits behind the obesity epidemic—everything from air-conditioning to infectious love handles

Obesity is our century's version of the Kennedy assassination: Everybody's got a theory.

. . .

"We realize that obesity is more complex than we thought, so it's necessary to explore all possible theories," says Jerrold J. Heindel, the health science administrator for the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, a division of the NIH.

 

Weird as they may seem, the following hypotheses are quietly transforming the way we think about and treat obesity.

 

• Artificial Sweeteners Make Us Fatter
  
• Viruses lurking in your food may spread obesity, infiltrating adult stem cells and transforming them into fat cells.
  
• Sleep deprivation interferes with appetite-regulating hormones and drives us to eat more.
  
• Certain man-made chemicals commonly found in plastic -- which is commonly found in everything (baby bottles, food packaging, plumbing) -- cause physiological changes that can predispose us to be obese for life.
  

 

• 
  18 causes of Obesity in children
   
  
• 1. Acrocephalopolydactyly II
  
• 2. Alstrom syndrome
  
• 3. Bamforth syndrome
  
• 4. Beckwith-Wiedemann Syndrome
  
• 5. Borjeson Syndrome
  
• 6. Chondrodysplasia, Grebe type
  
• 7. Cohen Syndrome
  
• 8. Cushing's syndrome
  
• 9. Down Syndrome
  
• 10. Fleisher syndrome
  
• 11. Hyperphagia
  
• 12. Insulinoma
  
• 13. Polycystic ovary syndrome
  
• 14. Prader-Willi syndrome
  
• 15. Pseudohypoparathyroidism
  
• 16. Ruvalcaba syndrome
  
• 17. Turner Syndrome
  
• 18. Weaver Syndrome
  

[Moontanman]

I am fat, I eat too damn much and move too damn little, I suspect 90% of all other fat people have the same syndrome as me...... That's big river in Egypt but so easy to ignore!

[Michaelangelica]

I am fat, I eat too damn much and move too damn little, I suspect 90% of all other fat people have the same syndrome as me...... That's big river in Egypt but so easy to ignore!

With many, maybe even most, people this is probably the #1 cause of obesity as Racoon says.

However there are funny "blips' in the data -like starving people getting fat. Like people who are fat being put on calorie restricted diets in hospital and complaining they are being fed too much. Funny genetic results that don't compute, like a starving pregnant mother(in first trimester) giving birth to fat boys but not fat girls. The role of the immune system in wrapping "Non Star Born" (ie man made) chemicals in fat and storing them away has not been fully investigated.

All I want to do in this thread is to point out that there is a lot of info. & science about obesity and its causes that we are ignoring because of our prejudices and social blinkers.

It is almost as if fat people suffer from a kind of racism. certainly I suspect that a lot are getting perfunctory and cursory medical investigations because of our social prejudices toward the obese.

It is almost as if we are afraid of the overweight and obese. Do they threaten us?

[Nitack]

With many, maybe even most, people this is probably the #1 cause of obesity as Racoon says.

.....

All I want to do in this thread is to point out that there is a lot of info. & science about obesity and its causes that we are ignoring because of our prejudices and social blinkers.

It is almost as if fat people suffer from a kind of racism. certainly I suspect that a lot are getting perfunctory and cursory medical investigations because of our social prejudices toward the obese.

It is almost as if we are afraid of the overweight and obese. Do they threaten us?

 

Michaelangelica,

 

I understand what you are saying, but I think that many of us are tired of the idea that obesity should be a protected disability class and that it should be considered acceptable. As you have conceded (and I think it is well over 90%) for the vast majority of people the cause of obesity is a self inflicted condition that is the result of gluttony and sloth. What I find objectionable, and it appears that Moontanman does as well, is that many people who are only obese by their own actions (or lack of) use all of the science and research as a way to convince themselves that it is not their fault. Not only that, many in society try to use the research as way to justify and excuse the behavior.

 

The idea that obesity should be accepted and even a protected disability I find repugnant. There was a really good episode of the Simpsons where Homer intentionally made himself obese in order to gain disability status. I am not saying that people are intentionally making themselves fat, but it was a rather interesting pun on the idea of obesity as a disability. Look at these links...

 

Obesity Law and Advocacy Center

American Obesity Association - Advocacy Updates

OAC * Obesity Action Coalition

The Obesity Society

 

The idea that we are trying to make a preventable and dangerous health condition acceptable and to advocate for it is ridiculous. That is like encouraging the spread of AIDS! Don't try to stop AIDS, just encourage acceptance of it. If you think that is an unfair comparison, I will actually argue that it is a perfect analogy. The life expectancy of some one living with AIDS and receiving treatment is actually comparable to the life expectancy of a morbidly obese individual. Obesity related illness is the #1 cost in health care. To encourage acceptance is to remove motivation for correcting the self destructive behavior that most obese people indulge in.

 

You indicate that obese people suffer from prejudice and that the rest of the world treats them unfairly. I don't necessarily know that there is anything wrong with that. As I have pointed out numerous times in this thread, even for individuals with a legitimate condition which makes maintaining weight or losing weight hard, it is still achievable. Obesity is completely preventable even for individuals with risk factors and conditions.

 

Why would we ever advocate for making a preventable condition socially acceptable that lowers the quality of life for the individual, causes vast resources to be wasted to deal with it, and provides no benefit to anyone? :hyper:

[Michaelangelica]

You misunderstand and misrepresent me completely

I am not saying obesity is acceptable.

It is an urgent social health problem that we are NOT winning.

Why? perhaps because we are ignoring the science?

 

I am NOT saying that obesity is acceptable-although i can't see why not if there are no health consequences- but I am saying that we are ignoring the science because of prejudicial, emotive, discriminatory attitudes -like those you have just displayed.

 

I would not let Homer Simpson inform my opinions on this issue- it is a satire.

The popular press also looks for the simple, quick, and usually wrong, answer.

[Nitack]

You misunderstand and misrepresent me completely

I am not saying obesity is acceptable.

It is an urgent social health problem that we are NOT winning.

Why? perhaps because we are ignoring the science?

 

I am NOT saying that obesity is acceptable-although i can't see why not if there are no health consequences- but I am saying that we are ignoring the science because of prejudicial, emotive, discriminatory attitudes -like those you have just displayed.

 

I think there is a combination of my not articulating my point well enough and you not understanding what I was trying to say.

 

I don't feel that we are ignoring the science because of our social prejudices. My point was that perhaps people are reading too much into the science. The science has provided a way for those people who are obese through action, NOT BY ANY CONDITION ADDRESSED IN THE SCIENCE, to convince themselves that it must be something other than their own actions. Because we find a new article every day about some recent development in obesity research it reinforces the idea in many peoples minds that they must be the innocent victim of some condition/genetics/virus/bacteria/artificial sweetener/syndrome/[insert favored excuse here]

 

You concede that the vast majority of people who are obese are that heavy not because of the possible risk factors, but through their own actions. How many obese people believe that they are one of the few that are obese primarily because of genetics, or a virus, or the splenda in their diet coke? I'd bet that even though in all likelihood 90% or more of the obese population are that way from overeating and lack of exercise, more than 90% think that it is not their own actions that caused their condition.

 

I would not let Homer Simpson inform my opinions on this issue- it is a satire.

The popular press also looks for the simple, quick, and usually wrong, answer.

 

I said that it was not an influence but just an interesting pun given the conversation. Who is misrepresenting who?

[paigetheoracle]

With many, maybe even most, people this is probably the #1 cause of obesity as Racoon says.

However there are funny "blips' in the data -like starving people getting fat. Like people who are fat being put on calorie restricted diets in hospital and complaining they are being fed too much. Funny genetic results that don't compute, like a starving pregnant mother(in first trimester) giving birth to fat boys but not fat girls. The role of the immune system in wrapping "Non Star Born" (ie man made) chemicals in fat and storing them away has not been fully investigated.

All I want to do in this thread is to point out that there is a lot of info. & science about obesity and its causes that we are ignoring because of our prejudices and social blinkers.

It is almost as if fat people suffer from a kind of racism. certainly I suspect that a lot are getting perfunctory and cursory medical investigations because of our social prejudices toward the obese.

It is almost as if we are afraid of the overweight and obese. Do they threaten us?

 

Ageism, sexism, fatism are all fashion statements by those striving for perfectionism in the world. Once being overweight was considered a sign of wealth in Third World Countries because of the scarcity of food and Ancient man worshiped big women as with the recent find of a carved icon (The German Venus).

 

Back to the subject though - could innoculation be the culprit? America has grossly overweight people, maybe more than any other country in the world (please correct me if I'm wrong) and also gives its population more injections too for various diseases (Could the two be related?).

 

Then there is processed food - could it be this causes loss of nutrients and that this is a sign of malnutrition?

[Nitack]

Ageism, sexism, fatism are all fashion statements by those striving for perfectionism in the world. Once being overweight was considered a sign of wealth in Third World Countries because of the scarcity of food and Ancient man worshiped big women as with the recent find of a carved icon (The German Venus).

Not really a valid caparison when talking about ageism and sexism. Neither being old nor your gender has a direct correlation with your likelihood of an early death, lower quality of life, and disproportionate drain on the health care system. Many people try to frame any prejudice that overweight people experience as the product of a superficial world looking to bully an easy target. Even though that is probably true, it does not change the fact that being obese or morbidly obese is a major health concern and preventable. A number of logical fallacies with that... Ad Hominem, Argument from fallacy, and a sprinkle of Red Herring for good measure. Appeal to ridicule as well...

 

Back to the subject though - could innoculation be the culprit? America has grossly overweight people, maybe more than any other country in the world (please correct me if I'm wrong) and also gives its population more injections too for various diseases (Could the two be related?).

 

Then there is processed food - could it be this causes loss of nutrients and that this is a sign of malnutrition?

 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

Obesity is actually on the rise in the third world as well, except for a few areas such as Sub-Saharan Africa. Although I hear they cause autism! :huh: ( I am just kidding by the way)

[paigetheoracle]

Not really a valid caparison when talking about ageism and sexism. Neither being old nor your gender has a direct correlation with your likelihood of an early death, lower quality of life, and disproportionate drain on the health care system. Many people try to frame any prejudice that overweight people experience as the product of a superficial world looking to bully an easy target. Even though that is probably true, it does not change the fact that being obese or morbidly obese is a major health concern and preventable. A number of logical fallacies with that... Ad Hominem, Argument from fallacy, and a sprinkle of Red Herring for good measure. Appeal to ridicule as well...

 

Isn't that the point here - is it preventable? What truly causes it? What are our prejudices about it?

 

Morbidly obese in my book is people who have to be picked up by crane to be moved out of their house or have the walls of the house knocked down, so that their bodies can be removed for burial and those that can walk, looking like real life Michelin Men

 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

Sorry my Latin isn't that hot - are you saying I'm arguing from premises that I've provided and then claim them as proof?

 

Obesity is actually on the rise in the third world as well, except for a few areas such as Sub-Saharan Africa. Although I hear they cause autism! :huh: ( I am just kidding by the way)

 

If it doesn't occur there, why not? What is different about these areas? Is it genetic or lack of food source?

[Nitack]

If it doesn't occur there, why not? What is different about these areas? Is it genetic or lack of food source?

 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because (on account) of this"

 

The research I read a while ago indicated that the reason why it is not affecting sub-Saharan Africa and areas similar is believed to be due to the much lower amount of Calories available per-capita... I'll have to re-research to find it again.

[paigetheoracle]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because (on account) of this"

 

The research I read a while ago indicated that the reason why it is not affecting sub-Saharan Africa and areas similar is believed to be due to the much lower amount of Calories available per-capita... I'll have to re-research to find it again.

 

No need - I'll believe you! (I quote stuff that I've read but can never find again because I didn't keep a copy or threw it out, thinking I'd never need it again or eventually I remember the quote and source because I've used it many times before but had temporarily forgotten it - at my age recall is as slow as some old beat up computer because I am some old beat up person!)

[Michaelangelica]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because (on account) of this"

 

The research I read a while ago indicated that the reason why it is not affecting sub-Saharan Africa and areas similar is believed to be due to the much lower amount of Calories available per-capita... I'll have to re-research to find it again.

 

Metabolic syndrome in a sub-Saharan African setting: Central ...

Central obesity appears to be the key determinant of the prevalence of the MS in sub Saharan Africa. Many MS definitions may not be appropriate for African ...

cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18810851

 

Obesity and Undernutrition and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in ...

People in sub-Saharan Africa appear not always to perceive obesity as a health risk. The local perception of obesity and physical inactivity as signs of ...

Obesity and Undernutrition and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Rural and Urban Gambian Communities -

 

Metabolic syndrome in a sub-Saharan African setting: central ...

Central obesity appears to be the key determinant of the prevalence of the MS in sub Saharan Africa. Many MS definitions may not be appropriate for African ...

Metabolic syndrome in a sub-Saharan African setting: central obesity may be the key determinant

 

Disease and mortality in Sub-Saharan Africa - Google Books Result

by Dean T. Jamison, World Bank, Richard G ... - 2006 - Medical - 387 pages

Table 18.3 shows the prevalence of obesity from Sub- Saharan Africa reported in recent literature. South Africa has the highest prevalence of obesity in ...

EDIT: Disease And Mortality in Sub-saharan Africa p.253-254

I'd bet that even though in all likelihood 90% or more of the obese population are that way from overeating and lack of exercise, more than 90% think that it is not their own actions that caused their condition.

Show me some science to support your "bet".

It just sounds like more prejudice and unsupported generalisation.

The same sorts of stereotyping & attitudes you find in racism.