Voodoo

[Tarantism]

rad, thanks for that clarification magnet.

[Queso]

I believe shamans do not hear,

for they are Doomed to listen.

 

During your research,

did you study the way they slept?

I'm curious . .

[MagnetMan]

.

 

During your research,

did you study the way they slept?

I'm curious . .

 

Science recognizes three states of consciousness. Waking. Dreaming. Deep sleep. Each gives out different measurements of brain-wave activity, heart-rate and muscle/skin tension and one can tell, simply by checking the measurements, what state of consciousness a person is in.

We are all more or less familiar with waking consciousness, though other than controversial IQ measurements, nobody really knows how to measure the degree of holistic alertness the average adult enjoys during waking consciousness. (And therein lies the goal and universal purpose of the Psyche-Genetic theory I have been working on for three decades.)

 

Freud and Jung and others have spent much time and energy theorizing about the sub-conscious via various forms of analysis including that of the dream state.

 

Nobody knows anything about deep sleep, other than that we surface in and out of it throughout the night, from deep-sleep to dream-sleep and back again.

 

The commentary I am about to give regarding the dream and deep sleep states, and what I think the affect those two states have on our degree of self-awareness during the waking state, have to be taken within the context of my particular frame of reference, which is based on a holistic meld of both physical and metaphysical modes of comprehension.

 

In metaphysics this is seen as Form/Void or Yin/Yang.

In physics it is seen as Particle/Wave

 

Most scientists see everything from an analytical perspective.

Most metaphysicians see everything from an intuitive perspective.

(Hence the wars between science and religion )

Split-brain experiments by Roger Sperry have revealed that our psyche is composed of both analytical (left-brain/masculine) and intuitive (right brain/feminine) modes of comprehension.

 

Our current state-enforced schooling system concentrates primarily on developing the left brain mode and producing a predominantly analytical psyche that produces practical craftsmen and scientists.

 

My research with shamans revealed that they worked almost exclusively on developing the intuitive powers of their apprentices. (I will explain their ESP drills and exercises later.) This allows them to instinctively empathize with others and divine their spiritual angst when they come for treatment. They can either see y or even feel the pain of their clients. (Robert Shabalala, one of the primary subjects of my documentary, could sometimes feel the pain of a prspective client up to three days before the individal arrived.)

 

I took both these methods and invested decades training myself to meld both modes together and thereby force myself to see both sides of any issue/problem/idea simultaneously. This stereo mode of comprehension requires that any conceptual idea (old or new) must be constructed first as a practical model, and then slept on in anticipation of the evocation of a dream model. Only when these two models agree can the concept be accepted as feasible. (Tesla swore that he could construct an entirely new type of electric motor in his head and watch it running as an hallucination, and even revise it to check on its wear and tear months later.) Many scientists have experienced the seemingly uncanny dual nature of problem solving, when after days/weeks/months of analytical wrestling in lab experiments, they suddenly wake up from a dream with the full solution very clear.)

 

Unlike Freud or Jung, I have never been much concerned with dream interpretation. Their approach is that dreams are sometimes trying to tell us something important that is hidden deep inside our sub-conscious. This may well be useful on occasion and the information applied to waking life.

 

But there are other psychic dreams that go far beyond any mundane interpretation that may be relevant to physical application. Lucid psychic dreams relate specifically to the current condition and further development of our spiritual consciousness. For this reason recounting psychic dreams is an essential part of shaman training. (Snake dreams and flight dreams are the most significant)

 

Where I differ from scientist and shaman, is; where the scientist is trying to ground us in a physical reality, and the shaman is trying to escape gravity and float the psyche on an astral reality, I see dreams as an integral link between the mundane and the profane. By accepting body and soul as a single entity, I do not get confused by the seemingly conflicting laws that govern each state.

 

Let me give you a graphic example of exactly what I mean here, and how vitally important it is to apply holism in everything.

 

I interviewed two woman separately. One was an accomplished middle-aged African shaman. The other a deeply confused middle-aged scientist.

 

When I asked the African women what caused her to become a shaman, she told me the following story.

When she was eleven years old, while taking here usual trips up and down from the river, hauling water for her mother's millet patch, she got tired and decided to take a short nap. She wondered down the river until she found a secluded shady spot and fell asleep. She was startled from her sleep by a hissing noise. She woke and found herself confronted by a huge black mamba which had reared up out of the grass and was about to strike. Her fright vanished when the snake suddenly revealed itself to be an old man. He told her that he was her grandfather and that she was to come with him down to the bottom of the river and live with her ancestors for a while. So he grabbed her and jumped into the river and they sank to the bottom. There she found a village and lived for a month with her dead relatives.

 

Meanwhile, the girl's mother had become frantic. Her daughter had not returned with the water. The empty can was by the river side and all thought that she had been taken by a crocodile. A month later, to the shock of the whole family, the girl walked back into the house and told her mother where she had been for the past weeks. Her accurate description of her grandfather, who had died before she was born, and of other dead relatives and the family tales they all told her, convinced the family that she was telling the truth and had been specially selected by the ancestors to become a witchdoctor. So she was sent off for training with the local shaman.

 

When I interviewed the scientist and asked about her confusion, she told me the following story.

 

When she was eighteen she was out riding her horse near the Drakensberg Mountains. She found a nice secluded spot for a picnic, ate her food and fell asleep. She awakened to a strange noise. A flying saucer was hovering in the air and landed nearby. A young man got out and told her that she has been specially selected to come with him to visit his planet. She went with him and stayed for three of his planet years on his world. She fell in love with her abductor and had his child.

 

Meanwhile, her riderless horse had returned to the stable and the family was frantic. They feared she had been thrown and was lying unconscious somewhere. A massive manhunt went on for weeks. No body was found.

Three months later she walked back into family's house and shocked everybody. They were even more alarmed when they heard her alien abduction story. Even though she produced several tiny stones that geologists could not identify, and made impressive drawings of a type of warp-drive space ship that confounded several aerospace engineers; went under psychiatric care and took lie-detector tests, not a single person from that day onwards believed a word she said. She studied, took her engineering degree and married an Earth man, and spent her life in a profound state of inner confusion.

 

So there you have two stories, eerily similar, (though 2000 years apart in social evolution)with both women totally convinced about what happened to them, with one calmly accepted by her society and the other abandoned as a confused outsider. During my interview, despite the bizarre nature of their accounts, I could not find it within myself to doubt their sincerity.

 

So what really happened?

If I had known then what I know now, though I have never been able to prove it, this is what I would have told them.

Both women had dream encounters. Their experiences took place out-of-body on the astral plane, while their undiscovered physical bodies lay in deep sleep for one month and three months respectively, in a state of (near)suspended animation.

 

I believe this rationale accounts for the reports of literally thousands of people who genuinely believe that they have had UFO, or Big Foot, or Loch Ness encounters. Though many may be lying. The most sincere have, I believe, out-of-body experiences that are utterly real to them, but have been unable to make the connection to dream/deep sleep that I have just described.

[Queso]

are you familiar with the Art of Dreaming by

Carlos Castaneda?

 

a native american shaman's apprentice documents his teachings on dreaming that's been passed down from sorceres 6,000 years ago.

 

Humans had this down,

thousands of years ago,

and here we are

in business suits.

 

The book is incredible,

and it explains the lucid world

better than any text i've ever

observed.

 

I've only passed the second gate of dreaming.

[MagnetMan]

are you familiar with the Art of Dreaming by

Carlos Castaneda?

.

 

Castaneda, Alpert, Yogananda and countless biographies of saints, yogis, sufis. taosts and zenists were proufoundly influential and encouraging when I first set foot on the psychic hajj, as it was for millions of others during the so-called hippy movement of the 60's and 70's.

My theory is that the drug administrations of that period, which were instrumental in opening blocked spiritual channels, was an evolutuionary imperative that was vital for the further development of the collective psychic of our WASP culture, which was heading ever deeper into outright atheism. In response "wise men" came from the East in answer to the ancient maxim' when the pupil is ready the master appears

 

Though I was a late bloomer and already 30, I took LSD and joined several New Age sects myself. Then I went on to make documentary films of over a dozen others. By my rough calculatiions, (if the numbers of members each sect gave out to me were anywhere accurate) by the mid 70's some one hundred million westerns were involved in the New Age movement. The most important global developments to result from that mass response of the flower children to the tune of the Pied Piper, was the emergeance of a growing ecological awareness and the realization that we had to transcend our own ethnic bigotries and pay a lot more respect to other cultures. This led to the formation of the EPA and the current efforts by a multitude of enviromenal advocates to stop despoiling the home planet - which, in turn, I believe, was Mother's Earth's own link to the vital evolutionary need for the general awakening of a New Age of ontological consciousness.

 

I would hazard that more then 200 million Westerns are now involved in ontological practices and in holistic globalization, and as that number grows exponentially, the future looks increasingly hopeful

[Queso]

You think it looks hopeful?

 

I see the hope,

and I also see the mass destruction,

a yin yang rolling around the earth

pressing down, squashing everything,

destroying to recreate.

 

Tho-

we DO keep getting "smarter"

and if you look closely

we are evolving . .

 

 

every kid of this generation

can multi-task like crazy,

and they call this ADD

but we just need to be

stimulated at all times.

 

I don't know, tho,

I just sort of sit back

and while I ride these strange

air waves,

and dream-

A lot.

 

What is a New Age Sect?

I've never heard of that . .

Logically, it sounds like a group

of thinkers,

no?

 

A lot of beautifully creative things seemed to happen back then,

people getting together just

to figure things out

FURTHER.

 

My theory is that the drug administrations of that period, which were instrumental in opening blocked spiritual channels, was an evolutuionary imperative that was vital for the further development of the collective psychic of our WASP culture, which was heading ever deeper into outright atheism. In response "wise men" came from the East in answer to the ancient maxim' when the pupil is ready the master appears

 

thank owsly :hyper:

No-

Can't thank one person.

I would have liked to have met him, though.

 

So my question for you now is

why does the future look hopeful

to you, mr. magnet?

[Turtle]

...

I believe this rationale accounts for the reports of literally thousands of people who genuinely believe that they have had UFO, or Big Foot, or Loch Ness encounters. Though many may be lying. The most sincere have, I believe, out-of-body experiences that are utterly real to them, but have been unable to make the connection to dream/deep sleep that I have just described.

 

I related one of my encounters with a shaman in the dream thread, but it's worth repeating here. In preface, I was not under the influence of any mind altering substance. As Magnetman, Castanada, & I have said, the psychoactives have a limited use, the main thrust of which is to crack open the heads of initiates & make them aware of the other states. Once that is accomplished, the initiate learns to invoke the awareness entirely without the substances.

Here's my dream encounter in Zion Canyon:

Find me camped along the Virgin River deep in Utah's Zion Canyon. Just after falling asleep and beginning to dream, a spirit Shaman appears to me in this vision: The old man has come in and disturbed us. He intends to stay. He curls up and goes to sleep. He wakes as I tell him to go and begin to pick him up. He objects, but does not struggle. I pick him up and carry him away. I take him where he belongs. It is dim and an old woman is there. I put him down and he stands. He produces two objects with handles on one end and spider-web weaving at the other. They have parallel finger-like projections on the handle end. He joins the fingers together in front of his face. The object is a mask now. He pulls a string on the mask from his left, down and forward and a part spins and rides down the string giving off a low whirring sound. He does likewise on the right. The mask center now opens like four doors and something protrudes, square and glowing red. It flies toward me. I see myself now from the neck down. The cube has come from the mask and I see it enter my chest. A snake comes out from my throat, stretches out a ways and then turns to a forked stick which then falls to the ground. I wake.

 

;)

[MagnetMan]

I The mask center now opens like four doors and something protrudes, square and glowing red. It flies toward me. I see myself now from the neck down. The cube has come from the mask and I see it enter my chest. A snake comes out from my throat, stretches out a ways and then turns to a forked stick which then falls to the ground. I wake.

Extremely enigmatic! Would not try to hazard a guess as to what it means myself. The best interpreter is always the dreamer him/her self - not always fallible for sure, and sometimes takes years for the penny to drop - but there should be an intuitive knowingness

 

What I do know is that dream experiences and how one reacts to them while inside the dream are spiritually important. Other than mundane stuff related to waking life, I do not believe that lucid dreams take place inside one's head. You are OBE operating in another dimension of reality. Those who astral travel consciously, see a silver chord trailing behind them, connected to their comotose (deep sleep) body. I have a close friend (my cameraman on most shoots), who travels the astral daily and will share with you, later, the whole sequence of how and why he existed his body in the first place, and some of his aastral encounters.

 

The guides you meet in lucid dreams states are your higher selves. I only know of the astral and etheric dimensions on which they operate, but believe that there are at least four more levels beyond that. Your highest self is of course God.

 

I know that a show of courage in a dream is vital to further progress into higher planes. Snakes are the usual barriers and one has to gain the courage to grab hold of them. Facing lions is another. So is obedience to a command from an advanced being. (Usually appear as wizzened, seemingly helpless old men).

 

Self-centered, materially-orientated people who do not practice altruism in worldly life in some manner, rarely have lucid dreams. Some of the poorest people are spiritually the richest and have amazing dream lives. (The camel and the needle :eek:

 

Spiritual awakening is always accompanied by initial feelings of affection for mankind in general - especially our collective ancestors and their long struggle to help lift human consciousness. Confucius and Loa Tse were emphatic about filial piety. So are African witchdoctors. I vouche for it too.

 

Early flight dreams, (where one struggles to gain altitude) are ceratin indicators of the beginnings of astral travel. One of my fun flights was on a carpet racing a steam engine. I knew i was a rank beginner, since my magic carpet was just a patch, barely big enough to sit on, and keeping my balance was part of the fun.

 

Daring rescues of others against seeminly impossible odds, are further indicatiors of advancement. I had a couple of these that I would like to share as time goes on.

 

For those pracmatics who do not see the value in spiritual cultivation, all I can say is that you are missing out on the ultimate Disneyland - and far more exhalted spheres beyond. Why live one mundane life when you can experience so much more on muilti dimensions?

 

Take this Eagle dream that Turtle had for instance. One can easily see in it the origines from whence all the fables and moral lessons that have been handed down to cultures from ancient times, came from. This one is a true classic.

 

I find myself on a low hill & a line of people dressed in sackcloth stretches up the slope. All types of people, all races, ages, & genders & each is carying a bucket. I join the line & walk along to the top where I step out of the line. As each person comes to the top they pour out their bucket over the edge. I move to the edge to look over & I become dizzy & I fall. I am sliding down an almost vertical slope of ice & out of control. I am terrorized. Suddenly a sharp pain rips my shoulder & I stop abruptly. I roll over to look & an enormous eagle is there with one set of talons in the ice & the other gripping my shoulder. I ask him where this is & he says it is the slope-of-anguish & the people above are pouring out the collected tears of sadness. I ask him what lies below & he says a ragged edge of rocks lies below which shreds to dust all that fall upon it. I ask him why he is here & he says he came out of sadness & fell on the slope & broke his wing & is trapped. he tells me if I give him my voice his wing will be healed & he will fly off & gather branches to drop at the bottom & break my fall. I ask him how can I give something of such great value & he says if I do not he will starve & we both will die. So I give him my voice & he stretches out his wing & flexes it & turning to me he says when I let you go, stay always to the left. Then he said to rember that nowhere is anything gathered together in any great amount except by the smallest bits. Now stretching out his wings, he let me go & flew up & as I began to slide again I woke.

 

The last comment from the Eagle guide (Turtle's higher self) is very appropo in the context of devloping this thread. There are an infinite amount of tiny bits of vital information that each of us gather through life that belong to our own giant jigsaw puzzle. And each individual puzzle is a part of a yet greater collective puzzle.

 

So the way we should go about posting on this esoteric thread, is to do so intuitively. Respond to your own inner urge to share any tiny bit, even if it seems out of context on the surface. There is no need to think one is interupting any train of thought. The spirit planes have no gravity-bound rules. Pieces of the puzzle will gradually fall into place and we will all learn what we need to learn that way

 

Cheers.;)

[Queso]

For those pracmatics who do not see the value in spiritual cultivation, all I can say is that you are missing out on the ultimate Disneyland - and far more exhalted spheres beyond. Why live one mundane life when you can experience so much more on muilti dimensions.

 

Lucidly put,

 

every day I wake

and have to get used to

what it's like to be stuck

to the ground again.

 

It's so weird,

you are amazing at wording all of this, magnetman.

I have read books on the subject,

practiced, and have had lucid experiences myself,

but I've always been unable to explain it.

----Language/analog=slow

----Dream communication(some call telepathy)/I don't know what you would call this,

it's NOT digital,

but it's so far out to be analog,

what do you call this triad?

 

 

----Internet/digital= super fast

 

See,

i'm just spilling thoughts.

 

Lately I've been approaching these weird situations

of courage,

and I've backed down

(When I really shouldn't have)

And I wake up and smile :)

with motivation for the next

time I wake up in a dream.

[Queso]

and thank you for the knowledge about the cord that your Energy Body is attached to,

 

Is it always visible?

I've never tried to

"look back"

and see.

 

I've heard of some people dreaming

and being able to see in

omnidirections.

 

360 vision.

 

Lose your physical body

and become

PHYSICLESS!

[Turtle]

Katabataks is one of my joins of the dichotomy. I suspect if you slice up my brain, the corpus callosum is twisted.:)

[Queso]

Katabataks is one of my joins of the dichotomy. I suspect if you slice up my brain, the corpus callosum is twisted.:)

 

I thought of your katabataks when I was reading your dream.

 

You've got such a complex psyche:hihi:

[Turtle]

I thought of your katabataks when I was reading your dream.

 

You've got such a complex psyche:hihi:

Takes one to know one.:)

[Turtle]

Speakin of dream learned skills amplified, I am logging out as soon as I post & taking the large Khua out & work it up for 15 minutes. If you listen carefully, you may here me.:)

[Queso]

Listen with mine eyes

SHUT

with ears

that are really just

sounds i've always wanted to hear!

 

Dream Jazz is so amazing,

i've played physicless instruments

that have changed my life,

forever.

 

I love your kuah,

that must be a trip.

[MagnetMan]

and thank you for the knowledge about the cord that your Energy Body is attached to,

 

Is it always visible?

I've never tried to

"look back"

and see.

According to my astral friend, always.

 

I've heard of some people dreaming

and being able to see in

omnidirections.

 

360 vision.

 

I am on a television assigment in England.

I have just got into bed and I am lying face-down with my head in the pillow in an old inn just outside of London.

 

A young woman with long blonde hair, dressed in a long blue silky gown, walks into the room. She enters right through the bolted door. She is weeping softly. She takes no notice of me and sits down at the end of the bed, her head bowed, sobbing.

 

I am frozen with fright and cannot move a muscle. My fear is mixed with the confusion of trying to figure out how I can see her so clearly while my face is buried in the pillow.

 

I have no recollection of how long she sits there crying. I do not see her go and do not know when or how i fall asleep. In the morning, at breakfast, I ask the owner of the hotel if anybody else has seen the apparition. He looks uncomfortable, but denies it.

[Queso]

your words are like

drone strings,

my friend.