Science and Religion

[Spiked Blood]

Explain to me scientifically how Jesus was born from a virgin in pre-genetic manipulation times?

Don't know. How was Jesus born from a virgin in pre-genetic manipulation times? I'm gonna wait for a humourous conclusion but I suspect the punchline is already there.

How a boat was filled with two of every animal?

 

Isn't it seven of each animal, but two of each unclean animal. I'd like to know how christians, or whomever, explain him gathering up all of these animals..on his own. Don't things like lions generally eat people. What did he do, knock the lion out( he had a mighty punch that Noah) toss a pair of 400 pound lions over his shoulders and carry them a few hundred miles back to his big boat. What did he feed them with, fives loathes and two fishes... no wait that was the other guy, that one time.

How... whatever. One is faith, the other is observation.

 

Religion and science would easily be compatible, if there was one true religion that dealt in truth, unfortunately there isn't.

 

You can't mix the desire for knowledge with the need to be ignorant.

[shadow]

I disagree. Since you're the believer, you

send the angel to me & let me get a photo and an interview. Since you can't do that, your claim is lame. :

shrug: :rainbow: :hihi:

 

Dear Turtle,

 

You're on dude. An angel of death for you. Don't worry, he'll just vist. He's not taking you anywhere.

 

You can laugh now. I don't know about later.

 

 

shadow

[Boerseun]

Dear Turtle,

 

You're on dude. An angel of death for you. Don't worry, he'll just vist. He's not taking you anywhere.

 

You can laugh now. I don't know about later.

 

 

shadow

You are a strange, strange individual.

 

So - Turtle, be ready for the Angel of Death's 'visit'. Make sure you have all kinds of recorders, writing pads, cameras, etc. Heck - I think you should rig up a webcam so we can all join in the fun. Just remember to put some sort of covering over your sofa, I would imagine the Angel of Death smelling rather foul. And seeing as this is just a pop-in 'visit', you actually would want to use your sofa again afterwards. Would you make him some tea, served with biscuits? That'll probably just fall straight through him and mess your sofa up, seeing as he's a skeleton. So don't bother with the tea.

 

But this makes me wonder. If Shadow gets to boss Death around, who's Shadow, then? Some kind of uber-demon? Or maybe he's just Death's secretary, making appointments and stuff. If that's the case, Shadow, I've got this really loud neighbour who's a real pain in the ***. Wanna sort it out for me? How much would a surprise visit from Death to my neighbour's house cost me? Come on... I'll make it worth your while. It's just a wee entry in the Demonic Diary - can't be that hard, now can it?

[ughaibu]

A date and time needs to be set for this.

[Turtle]

Dear Turtle,

You're on dude. An angel of death for you. Don't worry, he'll just vist. He's not taking you anywhere.

You can laugh now. I don't know about later.

shadow

Dearest Shadow,

I am a mirror, and shadows are not immune to my reflection any more than the light. I haven't been laughing; I have been crying.

A date and time needs to be set for this.

Since this is smoky's experiment & I am always in the same place sceduling is of no consequence to me. I do appreciate the offer to act as my second.:hyper:

So - Turtle, be ready for the Angel of Death's 'visit'. Make sure you have all kinds of recorders, writing pads, cameras, etc.

I have these bits always at hand; you know me like a pamphlet Sir.:rainbow:

I propose that the proof needed is not for me, but rather for shadow. So shadow's further experiment is to question his ghosty when it returns on some particular feature of my environs. What sits on the upturned flowerpot in my yard? :hihi: :eek2:

[Turtle]

I have these bits always at hand; you know me like a pamphlet Sir.B)

I propose that the proof needed is not for me, but rather for shadow. So shadow's further experiment is to question his ghosty when it returns on some particular feature of my environs. What sits on the upturned flowerpot in my yard? :shrug: :D

 

So much for that experiment, and on to some new ones that shed light on the 'shadow people', spirits, angels, and such ilk as people claim are visitations from supernatural beings.

 

 

“Electrical stimulation repeatedly produced a feeling of the presence of another person in her extra-personal space,” said Olaf Blanke, co-author of the study conducted by a team of researchers from University Hospital in Geneva, Switzerland.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/686

[InfiniteNow]

From the link above:

When a region of her brain called the left temporoparietal junction was electrically stimulated, the woman described encounters with a ‘shadow person’ who mimicked her bodily movements.

 

Stimulation of subregions in the brain in close proximity have also been strongly associated with a feeling of well-being.

[Turtle]

Stimulation of subregions in the brain in close proximity have also been strongly associated with a feeling of well-being.

 

Close proximity to the left temporoparietal junction do you mean?

Not all the experiences of the subject seem to have engendered feelings of well-being.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/686

... During a language task, in which the seated patient held a card in her right hand, she described the person sitting next to her and trying to interfere with the task. "He wants to take the card … he doesn't want me to read," she said.

 

The Baba Yaga Hag stories/myths/experiences we discussed at length in the DMT & the Pineal thread have many of the hallmarks of the experiences described by this subject. ( posts #35 and on: http://hypography.com/forums/chemistry/5450-dmt-psychedelic-pineal-4.html ) I add to that experiences of/with aliens, demons, angels, gods, spirits, blah blah yada yada.:)

[paigetheoracle]

Explain to me scientifically how Jesus was born from a virgin in pre-genetic manipulation times?

 

How a boat was filled with two of every animal?

 

How... whatever. One is faith, the other is observation.

 

Playing Devils Advocate here - how about if the ark description isn't to be taken literally? Also how about if it was literal, God was an alien and the boat was a spaceship that held gene banks of the entire, present population? (Would also explain virgin birth or is this virgin on the ridiculous?).

 

As for the flood legends around the globe - sounds like record keeping of a known phenomena and one through global warming we might see again. How would future generations react to our version of events? (Liars? Misinterpreters of the truth?).

 

Personally, I believe if you aren't there (place/time), you can't know only speculate. It's like the story of the confederate general, who said 'They couldn't hit a barn door at this- ":lol:

[paigetheoracle]

I thought science was nuetral? As for the explanations - loads exist but the phenomena itself still exists (life/existence) and most of what people say is just hot air. The bible is full of speculation and facts, recorded by people much like us - some logical and scientific, others dreamers and charlatans. As a guide to morals, it has its merits. As a historical record, some use. As inspiration - whatever turns you on but don't be surprised if it turns others off or that they move on to other 'good books'.

 

As for death - we all flip this mortal coil and no argument or discussion means anything when compared to the actual experience of it for us as individuals (Others can tell you it's terrible/ wonderful/ boring) but only our own position to it at the time will decide how we react at the time (Rollercoaster Ride effect).

 

We are all either innocent blunderers, doing our best to understand and therefore control the world or deliberate trouble makers, out to destroy the world and everything in it - what would you rather believe? To me our attitude creates or destroys our links with the world and this is the science in Religion. It is an attempt to bring cohesion, where there is none as politics is its true counterpart, not science (divide and conquer). You could say it is the science of the soul and like a large percentage of anything, consists of cul-de-sacs and blunders.

 

It is the predecessor of psychology, sociology, history and other art subjects and is the best thing we had at the time to get us where we are today (Yesterdays Model T of the spirit). It is the holding onto what no longer works or has been found to be in error, that is the problem - not the original attempt to codify life itself. Everything starts off vague and generalised but experience hones our perception, so that we can sharpen our act and work down to the details of reality. As they say in Zen "The answer lies at your feet - walk on"

[InfiniteNow]

Close proximity to the left temporoparietal junction do you mean?

Exactly. I was mostly referring to an area called the entorhinal region, and how it's amazing that moving the electrical stimulus just a few mm in one direction or another can vastly change the sensation. :shrug:

[catholiboy]

Just visiting this forum-

Wow, there sure are a lot of narrow minded scientist types among you, aren't there?

You would not be ill advised to look up some epsitemology...

 

Sorry, the entire point is that you cannot verify what you believe. At the same time, science cannot verify ANYTHING outside human experience...

See Kant, and the noumenal world...MAN IS THE LIMIT TO HIS OWN KNOWLEDGE.

Not, of course, that I endorse hardline doctrinal religion of any form.

[cwes99_03]

Too Turtle's eternal chagrin, I will most likely follow up this post and begin discussing some of the earliest points of this now 30 post long thread. Some of the earliest points were wrong, or went unanswered, so I'd like a crack at correcting them.

 

I don't pretend to know everything about history, religion, or how certain things could have happened in the Bible. However, it has been my experience that some scientists are materialists, like our friend turtle, who insist for anything to be scientific we must have a material object to observe. However, much of science deals with phenomena that can't be explained at this time, but assumptions are made as to how it might be explained. Many of these very things occur in quantum mechanics and have been theorized and studied for 50 plus odd years.

 

Before I do so however, I would like all people who claim to be christians to weigh in on a few things. I'm off to lunch right now, but will bring them up when I return.

[Turtle]

Too Turtle's eternal chagrin, I will most likely follow up this post and begin discussing ...

 

Discuss away Chuck! :esmoking: It's not 'too', it's 'to'.:doh: It's not 'chagrin', it's 'da grin'. :D Nothing is eternal, even in odd years. :confused:

[InfiniteNow]

Just visiting this forum-

Wow, there sure are a lot of narrow minded scientist types among you, aren't there?

You would not be ill advised to look up some epsitemology...

Who pissed in your cheerios?

[cwes99_03]

While Turtle will have lots to say of whether religious ideas can be backed up in a scientific way (like the Noah's Ark and Lazarus' resurrection type parts of the Bible), I think he wouldn't mind if we scientifically determined whether someone's professed beliefs were in line with their source for their beliefs.

 

Would you all be up for this? For those of you who profess to be christians, I would ask that we all find a way to get on the same page before we try to discuss whether our beliefs in the Bible can be founded scientifically otherwise we will not present a united front. I'm particularly concerned with this because if you pick and choose which bible teachings you want to follow, then I see no reason why you can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible are mythological and which ones aren't. See the point?

[Southtown]

HA! You nailed it! Internal consistency is the goal. United front... never happen.