Nuclear Terrorism

[Turtle]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Thomas Jefferson

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

[Eclogite]

So we could have prevented 9/11 by refusing to believe it could happen?:)

Turtle, I don't think you are listening to exactly what I am saying. I refuse to yield one inch to the intended hysteria. That means I thumb my nose, or give the one fingered salute to the terrorists.

That does not mean we do not conduct proper intelligence operations to protect ourselves from such attacks. It means that when such attacks occur we refuse to allow them to scare us or cause us to react negatively.

 

When the London bombs were exploded last year I was in Moscow. My first reaction was to try to change my flight back to the UK to go via London rather than via Paris, with the explicit intention of making a personal and private statement that no terrorist act is going to intimidate me.

How do you suppose just one nuclear explosion (tactical or dirty-bomb) in a US city will compare in total loss say to Katrina? How about simulataneous nuclear blasts in multiple cities? And why worry if you don't live in the US? No skin off your nose eh?:)

Total loss from a single suitcase sized nuclear device: 30 - 50,000.

Total loss from multiple blasts - I don't believe they have the ability.

 

You imply I can be cavalier about this because I do not live in the US. I spend one month, roughly, of every year in the US, in Houston. Oil capital of the world. One of three US cities that would be prime targets for any attack. I believe you live in the Pacific North West. I think I may be at more risk than you, so the nasal epidermii of us both remains intact.

Additionally, I spend a couple of months each year in the Middle East, where any Brit can make a potentially juicy target for a terrorist spectacular. I think I am, arguably at more risk from a terrorist attack than you, but so what. If we start being effected by such calculations the terrorists have already won. I shall not give them that satisfaction.

[Turtle]

Turtle, I don't think you are listening to exactly what I am saying. I refuse to yield one inch to the intended hysteria. That means I thumb my nose, or give the one fingered salute to the terrorists.

That does not mean we do not conduct proper intelligence operations to protect ourselves from such attacks. It means that when such attacks occur we refuse to allow them to scare us or cause us to react negatively.

 

.... I think I am, arguably at more risk from a terrorist attack than you, but so what. If we start being effected by such calculations the terrorists have already won. I shall not give them that satisfaction.

 

I am listening to exactly what you say, while working to understand exactly what you mean. Just so, I don't mean to create hysteria, but rather relay what others have said so we may try & agree on what they mean.

This is not a story seen on network TV much if at all, seeing as how the more important stories on Wacko Jacko & Benafer, etc. get the air time. The whole web thing is relatively new to me, but I see it as a unique opportunity to circumvent the 'normal' channels.

Nice as always to exchange ideas with you Eclogite. Be safe.:hihi:

[Cedars]

I dont think there is any doubt that some/most elements of the terrorist groups are wanting to get ahold of some kind of nuclear bomb technology to use at some time against a perceived enemy. But as I glanced over the website of the college link, I really didnt see anything there which would inspire "I wonder if". Of course, all I was left with was looking for arabic type names in the Nuclear dept. I found none. Looking over the math dept I found one. So I have to assume the accuser, Journalist Paul L. Williams was refering to students of this school.

 

There are quite a few immigrants from the middle east to Canada each year. Back shortly after 9/11 there was some rumblings in our state dept (or some function of the us gov) over all the numbers of these groups Canada admits. But exactly how good the information provided by an ex-FBI consultant would be leaves me very skeptical of this persons accuracy. So I did a search:

 

About the Author

Paul L. Williams holds a Master of Divinity degree and a Doctor of Philosophy degree from Drew University. He has taught theology, humanities, medieval history, and philosophy at the University of Scranton, and for the past seven years has served as a consultant on organized crime and international terrorism for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

 

From this link http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?isbn=0028643526

 

It seems he has published several books over the years such as this one: The Vatican Exposed Money, Murder, and the Mafia

 

I am unsure how credible his assessment of terrorist threats are based on his experience.

[Qfwfq]

There would be someone else getting nuked. The United States doesn't have a nuclear arsenal for nothing...:)

Wipe Iran and North Korea off the map! It'd only be fair....

I doubt Al Qaeda is able to destroy the world, it would be foolish to do so in retaliation for an attack. We're less at risk than during the cold war. Remember that? :(

 

I doubt they could even destroy the whole of the US, there's no point in destroying Iran or Korea. There are plenty of good people in these countries too, don't judge the whole lot by the gov't.

 

An attack could very well happen, if you keep giving them reason to want to do so.

[C1ay]

In testing the system, our own agents have successfully smuggled nuclear materials into the country numerous times. It is inevitable that some group will succeed in at least detonating a conventional explosive to radiate such material as an atomized poison. It is also quite possible that some group will succeed in getting a nuclear device into the country with a container since less than 1% of the cargo containers entering the country are inspected. Expect the worst and hope for the best......

[Qfwfq]

They probably don't even always use Geigers.

[Cedars]

In testing the system, our own agents have successfully smuggled nuclear materials into the country numerous times. It is inevitable that some group will succeed in at least detonating a conventional explosive to radiate such material as an atomized poison. It is also quite possible that some group will succeed in getting a nuclear device into the country with a container since less than 1% of the cargo containers entering the country are inspected. Expect the worst and hope for the best......

 

But all this is contingent on the terrorists aquiring the products needed to create nuclear havoc. So far the closest they have come is Jose Padilla which has left me with alot of doubt regarding the foundation of our governments case:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2037444.stm

 

There are so many factors involved with creating a nuke, getting it in position and actually getting it to explode without being detected I have many reservations on whether they (terrorists) could actually pull it off in america. At least anytime in the next 5 years.

[IDMclean]

I ended up skipping a bunch of posts here, because for the most part I know my answer:

 

"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,

I will fear no evil."

 

Terror tactics don't work when you refuse to be terrorized. Further I refuse to give the children attention, they are throwing a temper tantrum rather than approaching their problems from a responsible, and respectable direction.

 

I will continue to live my life, and I will not be cohersed into quiet submission by such tactics. I will go to work tomorrow, and I will continue my life long plans, unchanged. They lose, I win.

 

As for nuclear deterrence and security? National boarders? All that?

 

Bah humbug! I will not surrender my freedoms for security! I welcome my brothers and sisters from around the world, I wish we would just get over the national boarders thing.

 

The terrorist want attention? I'll give it to them once they learn how to behave like well collected and modern individuals. they would impress me if they went about their "Jyhad" with faith, compassion, love, and conviction; but instead they conduct it as a war in which ultimately we all lose.

 

Security is a laughable thing, we survey at any given time less than 10% of our land, sea and air. A man with a suitcase in a row boat could f@ck up New York harbor rather easily. I could sit you down and walk you through the anatomy of a nuclear weapon, how to aquire the things you need for it's construction and how to make the fuels, all of which is available within the American house hold. It wouldn't be a city buster but it would make a pretty bang and cause allot of property damage. Fission does that.

 

It's like a meteor strike, be ready for it, but it's not something to worry about, I lose no sleep of the subject.

[Cedars]

Well, it looks like they are getting closer! :hyper: Maybe not a SuperPower style Atomic Bomb, but something that will be Bad. :naughty:

 

I said to rent the movie "Dirty Bomb";

Here is why!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13093787/

 

This world will go to hell in a hand basket...

 

From a NOVA program 2/03

British intelligence recently reported that Al Qaeda might have gone beyond the planning stage to actually build a dirty bomb in 1999. No one knows where it went, or how powerful it might be.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3007_dirtybom.html

 

Is this the same bomb they are looking for in the link you posted, or is their reliable information a new bomb?

 

 

From the same link:

In 1995, Muslim rebels from Chechnya directed a TV reporter to a park in central Moscow. The package she found contained a small amount of explosives and something else: Cesium-137, a radioactive isotope. This was the first known appearance of what has become a household word: a dirty bomb.

 

In March 1998, the people of Greensboro, North Carolina, woke up to what they thought was a perfectly normal spring day. One of my physician colleagues said, "Tim, the cesium is missing." The missing cesium was inside nineteen tiny metal containers, called brachytherapy needles. These needles are inserted into tumors. The amount of radioactivity involved certainly was significant. Twenty two gigabequerels has the potential to give someone a fairly substantial radiation exposure. The Greensboro hospital's cesium needles were never recovered.

 

The missing brachytherapy needles from Moses Cone Hospital have joined 30,000 other items on a list of radiation sources now lost inside the U.S. New instruments are being employed to detect radioactivity inside trucks on the nation's highways. Detection devices have also been quietly installed at certain entry points into our major cities. People who have recieved cancer treatments are tripping these detectors.

 

Read over the parts about the Brazilian release of radioactive hosptial waste. 4 people died. 200 were exposed. What overwhelmed the system was the people who were fearful of being exposed and demanding the system monitor them. People fear anything radioactive/nuclear with cause. But what is the real problem is the misplaced fear due to not knowing whether or not you have been exposed and what the level is.

 

So buy yourself a geiger counter and be able to be aware without dependence on the system for these kinds of answers. You will sleep better I am sure, and this will also reduce the potential that you are terrorised by these clips and soundbites that you will be bombarded with, should the worst case scenario occur near you.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22geiger+counter%22

[Turtle]

While the explosives were 'conventional', these fellas from Ontario had quite a little terrorist plot cooked up. Guess I worried for nothing as they planned to blow up Canadians & not sneek over the border to the US. Whew! Dodged that one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/world/americas/04toronto.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5094&en=84373be6349c6d33&hp&ex=1149480000&partner=homepage

[HappytheStripper]

I was thinking about a political career and need to fund it..

 

How about text alerts for $1.. to your mobile phone or email address.. warning of a nuclear attack..??

 

I think the US may need em :shrug:

 

Ashley

[charles brough]

Surely, the subject of nuclear terrorism deserves more than a series of one liners!

 

In my web page I bring out reasons why the prospects for nuclear wars are grand for the next twenty five years.

 

Our "solution" to the threat is to keep aggrivating Islam into turning out ever more terrorists. To me, it seems that we should take a serious look at what it is that is causing Islam to turn violent. We are currently subject to Fox News "educating us" that the fault is in Islam itself.

 

But Islam has been largely at peace with the West every since the Turks stopped invading SouthEast Europe in the 16-17th century. Muslims have lived much like any other civilized people for the last fifteen hundred years. What their scriptures say has little to do with what the people regard as important and what shapes their lives. Religions are how people live, not what their scriptures say because scriptures have always been confused and self-contradictory.

 

Ever since the formation if Israel, we in the West have badly treated Islam and our humiliating intrusions into their world in the last 6 years is accelerating the demoralization of their society and driving ever more of their young men into retaliating the only effective way they can.

 

charles, HOME PAGE

[Michaelangelica]

This certainly does not help?

No wonder Islamic nations are nervous of the West

Why does Britain need all this plutonium?

Is she panning on making the planet stardust?

or is is just waste?

 

Sellafield's plutonium store 'vulnerable to terrorist attack'

 

 

David Adam, environment correspondent

Friday September 21, 2007

The Guardian

 

Britain's stocks of plutonium are kept in "unacceptable" conditions and pose a severe safety and security risk, experts warn today.

 

The Royal Society says ministers must urgently review the way more than 100 tonnes of the radioactive element, separated during the reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel,The amount of plutonium stored at Sellafield has nearly doubled in the last decade to 103 tonnes. A quarter has been separated for foreign countries and companies. Prof Boulton said: "Just over 6kg of plutonium was used in the bomb which devastated Nagasaki, and the UK has many thousands of times that amount. We must ensure this very dangerous material does not fall into the wrong hands."

[Michaelangelica]

I was thinking about a political career and need to fund it..

 

How about text alerts for $1.. to your mobile phone or email address.. warning of a nuclear attack..??

 

I think the US may need em :rolleyes:

 

Ashley

"WHAT TO DO IN CASE OF NUCLEAR ATTACK

Bend over

Put your head between your legs

and kiss your arse good-by."

 

-remembered from somewhere.

[Eclogite]

This certainly does not help?

No wonder Islamic nations are nervous of the West

Why does Britain need all this plutonium?

Is she panning on making the planet stardust?

or is is just waste?

Waste.

The quotation notes: "We must ensure this very dangerous material does not fall into the wrong hands."

 

Perhaps it already is. Those of you who are unfamiliar with the history of nuclear power in the UK may be interested to know about our Three Mile Island/Chernobyl equivalent. At the charming nuclear facility of Windscale, in 1957, a reactor fire led to the release of 20,000 curies of radioactive iodine, plus some plutonium, caesium and polonium. The reactor pile, I believe, still contains molten uranium and gives off significant heat.

 

And what became of Windscale? With Orwellian deftness (and governmental daftness) they changed its name to Sellafield.

[Hill]

Right now I think the chances are < 10%. Of course this probability will probably increase in decades and centuries to come. Right now I think it is part of the deception used by the current US administration to try to keep the population in a constant state of anxiety. "Vote for us because the others guys can't protect you".

 

I think we face a much greater threat from nukes in the hands of established states. It wasn't too long ago that India and Pakistan were rattling nuclear sabers at each other. Then there are elected members of US government who are proposing using tactical nukes against enemies. Cooler heads prevail for now and these proposals are a part of the fringe. But a conventional attack against any of several countries could, probably would, amplify the voices of those proposing nuclear detonations.