Revisionism and the Holocaust

[InfiniteNow]

I think you're stupid for saying that Eclogite..

 

See... not so cool. ;)

 

I do not believe it was an issue of the word choice, but the word tone.

 

 

Nor do we accept posts that are obvious attacks on other members, or which make other members appear needlessly stupid or ignorant.

 

If you want to refute someone's claims, please stay calm and point out where you think they went wrong, and what kind of proof you base your own opinion on.

 

Rude and offensive behaviour is not tolerated

 

Avoid short, witty, off-topic remarks ("hit-and-run posts") in a thread where people are having a serious discussion. This is considered rude and offensive.

 

I understand your concern Eclogite, but I am pretty sure the issue was with the rudeness, not the poo-ness...

[Chacmool]

I understand your concern Eclogite, but I am pretty sure the issue was with the rudeness, not the poo-ness...

Yes indeed. Thanks for the clarification, InfiniteNow! I was trying to point out that we can all still heartily disagree without being rude and offensive.

 

Eclogite and Spiked Blood, I didn't mean to "leap on" anyone or issue a warning, I was just doing a bit of house cleaning in terms of our forum rules. It's a pity that this has now hijacked the topic. I consider the matter closed, and you can PM me if you want to discuss it further.

 

Let's get back on topic. :naughty:

[HydrogenBond]

I remember watching a PBS program, a while back, about the rise of the Nazi party. When the party first began it was a just small fledgling political party, campagning within the rules of politics. They eventually won a small minority of seats in the German parliment. They had a lot energy and drive and gained further representation in the govenment as time went on. One of their chief political opponents was from the majority party and he was of Jewish descent. He spoke out against their platform and became a strong political rival causing them problems. I often wondered whether the hate of the Jews began simply as a political tool to discredit their outspoken rival. At that point the Nazi party stayed within the rules of political mudslinging without hitmen. This mudslinging remained part of their platform because it was found to be a powerful way to manipulate people in their favor. Somewhere, the nature of that political tool changed from words to atrocity, leading to mass murder.

 

One sort of wonders, in the crossroads of fate, if their chief critic had become an ally, when things were politically legitimate, the German Jews may have become part of team instead of their scape-goat.

[Freddy]

I remember watching a PBS program, a while back, about the rise of the Nazi party. When the party first began it was a just small fledgling political party, campagning within the rules of politics. They eventually won a small minority of seats in the German parliment. They had a lot energy and drive and gained further representation in the govenment as time went on. One of their chief political opponents was from the majority party and he was of Jewish descent. He spoke out against their platform and became a strong political rival causing them problems. I often wondered whether the hate of the Jews began simply as a political tool to discredit their outspoken rival. At that point the Nazi party stayed within the rules of political mudslinging without hitmen. This mudslinging remained part of their platform because it was found to be a powerful way to manipulate people in their favor. Somewhere, the nature of that political tool changed from words to atrocity, leading to mass murder.

 

One sort of wonders, in the crossroads of fate, if their chief critic had become an ally, when things were politically legitimate, the German Jews may have become part of team instead of their scape-goat.

 

Have you read Mein Kampf? In it Hitler clearly blamed the Jews for all of Germany's troubles, from losing WWI to its economic problems. I would suggest the fact that a Jew headed the main opposition party to the Nazis would have re-enforced Hitler's hatred of the Jews which started after WWI ended.

[Spiked Blood]

I remember watching a PBS program, a while back, about the rise of the Nazi party. When the party first began it was a just small fledgling political party, campagning within the rules of politics. They eventually won a small minority of seats in the German parliment. They had a lot energy and drive and gained further representation in the govenment as time went on. One of their chief political opponents was from the majority party and he was of Jewish descent. He spoke out against their platform and became a strong political rival causing them problems. I often wondered whether the hate of the Jews began simply as a political tool to discredit their outspoken rival. At that point the Nazi party stayed within the rules of political mudslinging without hitmen. This mudslinging remained part of their platform because it was found to be a powerful way to manipulate people in their favor. Somewhere, the nature of that political tool changed from words to atrocity, leading to mass murder.

 

One sort of wonders, in the crossroads of fate, if their chief critic had become an ally, when things were politically legitimate, the German Jews may have become part of team instead of their scape-goat.

 

Anti-semitism was rife throughout Europe and most of the world during that time period. People thought Jews were an inferior people. I think the Nazi party was just channeling the thoughts of the people. I don't think most of what transpired was planned in any way. I think it just escalated beyond any of their control.

[Ananke]

Antisemitism has a long history everywhere in the world, but Germany in the 1930's was an odd place for it to rear its head. The jews in germany were extremely well integrated, to the point of having virtually dissapeared as a serperate group. Intermarriage with germans was common, and only the ultra-right german romantics had any deep-seated resentment towards them. The holocaust was caused by the Nazis, not by some general german antisemitism.

[HydrogenBond]

This is a little off the topic but it is an example of even Jews having their own distain for others who are not Jews. A friend of mine was once married to a Jewish man for many years. She was a non-Jew who went the extra step to become Jewish for her husband and children. Whenever she was in social situations were mostly Jews would congregate she was always considered the schwetsa (I hope this is the right word). This is a yiddish term for a woman who is not a Jews, used in a derogatory way. It was used to make her feel bad. There is also a term for nonjewish men that is used in the same way. Not everyone was like that, but there was a good fraction of biggots, but typically only in the privacy of other Jews. It is something an outsider may rarely see but in the privacy of thoughts narrow mindedness is more common even among those who complain the most.

[perplexity]

Antisemitism has a long history everywhere in the world, but Germany in the 1930's was an odd place for it to rear its head.

I think it had a great deal to do with the need for somebody to blame for the hyperinflation of the Deutsche Mark after World War I, the Jewish association with usury, and so on. Lives were ruined. It was never the same again.

 

30 years later when I was taken to Germany to visit Grandparents, there was still a palpable sense of deep insecurity whenever those days were mentioned.

 

When Hitler turned up it was already a time of crisis, for once again because of money, the World was shaking underfoot, and in a time of crisis people are at their most susceptible to the power of suggestion.

 

--- RH.