Gravity Bends spacetime

[Meanderer]

:) No offence taken UncleAl....... Thanks all the same pgrmdave.

 

Ignorance is bliss til one wishes to learn!

 

Amazing the response one gets when asking a question!

:eek2:

[HydrogenBond]

Not quite true. An electron does not 'travel' around the atom: it is infact a stationary wave whose energy state would give it a velocity of approximately 1/135th C if E = 1/2 m v^2. It is nevertheless quit still (see other threads).

 

The wave model of the electron correlates the data very well, however, it does not fully take into consideration the particle nature of electrons. As a particle traveling near C, it should also be expressing special relativity affects in conjunction with the observed wave affects.

 

It is also strange that the math does not say that relativistic mass would create a gravity affect. If this was true, it would imply that only matter creates gravity. Or particle matter creates gravity which can distort space-time and not space-time distortions creating gravity that creates matter.

 

I work under the premise that matter is a fundamental state of reality. Relativistic mass is virtual matter, that is closer to energy and can only form matter-antimatter if at all. That is why relativistic mass never results in more steady state long lived matter than one starts with.

[IDMclean]

Careful with the terms Matter and Mass. Matter contains mass, usually. Though not always. Mass is a property of Matter.

 

Relativistic Mass does distort Space-Time, as I understand it, which says little other than that is how I understand it to be. As a body's energy increases, so does it's mass, given by the relationship of:

[math]K = m_0 c^2 - \gamma m_0 c^2[/math] (The Proper Relativistic Kinetic Energy equation, I do believe.)

[sebbysteiny]

The wave model of the electron correlates the data very well, however, it does not fully take into consideration the particle nature of electrons. As a particle traveling near C, it should also be expressing special relativity affects

1/137 c is not really that close to c. Relativistic effects vary as v^2 / c^2 (well, strictly speaking, gamma). Thus the relativistic effects will be very small since 1/137^2 is very small.

 

But they do exist.

 

 

On another topic (and I am not claiming I am definately right here), nobody has offered any explanation for why relativistic mass does not causes a distortion in spacetime. I will put forward a reason why it does. Mass is just energy stored (in the form of mass) from E=mc^2. Others have said that a moving particle has an increased mass because it increases its energy stored thus it does not create mass that causes spacetime distortion. However surely the correct conclusion is that it should have exactly the same properties as mass caused by storage of any other type of energy which include both resistance to motion and spacetime distortion.

[HydrogenBond]

Somewhere else we did such a calculation and the relatistic mass increase was about 20ev, sort of analogous to double the ionization energy of H. I don't know if that means anything but is more likely coincidence. I used this slight relativistic energy to explain the Hiesenberg Uncertainty. The electron is hard to pin down because it exists in a different space-time reference than the nucleus and our zero reference.

 

If relativistic mass acted like mass, if something approached C it would become sort of like a huge blackhole moving near C due to its enormous mass ans gravity. This sort of makes sense, in the sense, that it would take enormous energy to achieve this. And with energy conserved in the universe, matter/energy would attrack to our object, so energy can be sucked out of the matter to achieve this energy intensive motion.