Anarchist society

[α CMa]

i think i have the thread in the right place, if not then please put in the right place.

just wanted to discuss an anarchist society.

 

 

here goes....

anarchist is a person who doesnot want a government to controle his life. he has rules that he follows.he is responsibel and cares for himself and others. he knows that in caring for himself and others it is a must that he cares for the environment of the earth.

 

anarchist society is made of these anarchists .they make the rules of living together in a society.they know that the survival does not mean a rat race among the members of the society but survival means coopration among the members of the society.

some of the features of the society

1. consensus based decision making systems.

2. full access to all info that affects the people.

3.so there will be no need for politicians(most of them are liers anyway, who needs them)

4. educate your child as you like, at home or in a school, you dont need to conform to a system that requires only bits and pieces be taught.

5. still working on the economy, but this much i know that the wealthy will not be allowed to run over the business of the not wealthy.and there will not be confusing language about taxes. there will be only one tax to build the community,thats it and no more.no free market formula cuz i think it is not sutable for a society that does not want a rat race among its members or externat controle.it is not communism so people who work harder and who work more should earn what they work for and keep it .

6. self governance, so no more rulers,kings chiefs,bishops,leaders of any sort.

7. coordinators will be chosen from the community based on how good that person is in character and how capable he is to do the task. once the task is done, no more coordinator.

8. what is good and right will be known to people because they will have a good understanding of the knowledge , physics, chemistry, biology and psychology. i personaly like astronomy too.

9.there will be no prisons, if a person does somthing wrong then pay the panalty that is agreed upon by the community.

10. every one has the right to defend themselves, self-defence.

11.people are free to practice their religion as long as they dont try and impose any thing on the community or influence the community that the community does not want.

 

 

at the moment only this comes to mind.but will post later other things. i need to know what the other members think .

[TheBigDog]

I like the fact that you are thinking about all of this. But lets under the covers of this world just a little bit.

i think i have the thread in the right place' date=' if not then please put in the right place.

just wanted to discuss an anarchist society.

 

 

here goes....

anarchist is a person who doesnot want a government to controle his life. he has rules that he follows.he is responsibel and cares for himself and others. he knows that in caring for himself and others it is a must that he cares for the environment of the earth.[/quote']

A society where the rules are all voluntary. What about those people who decide to live by rules that are not acceptable to others?

 

anarchist society is made of these anarchists .they make the rules of living together in a society.they know that the survival does not mean a rat race among the members of the society but survival means coopration among the members of the society.

some of the features of the society

1. consensus based decision making systems.

An anarchist based system of government. And majority rules. Very nice. How is the will of the majority... er .... concensus enforced?

2. full access to all info that affects the people.

What constitutes full access to all information? Does every member of the society need to inform every other member of the society about everything they know the hypothetically effects the people? How many people does information have to effect to fall under this rule?

3.so there will be no need for politicians(most of them are liers anyway' date=' who needs them)[/quote']

It is alwasy safe to say that politicians are liars. Wrap yourself in in like a warm blanket if you like' date=' but understand that it is not a true statement. Politicians are the outcropping of any specialist society. In the society you are describing all citizens have a say in all issues. So who is it who frames the issues, and educates people about them, and attempts to sway people in favor of one alternative over another? Politicians. There is no such thing as society without politicians.

4. educate your child as you like, at home or in a school, you dont need to conform to a system that requires only bits and pieces be taught.

5. still working on the economy, but this much i know that the wealthy will not be allowed to run over the business of the not wealthy.and there will not be confusing language about taxes. there will be only one tax to build the community,thats it and no more.no free market formula cuz i think it is not sutable for a society that does not want a rat race among its members or externat controle.it is not communism so people who work harder and who work more should earn what they work for and keep it .

Education. Fine, that bit might work. But you really need to crack some books on economy. Are you going to let companies be run in the same anarchist fashion? If a company needs capital investment to start, the person with the capital is taking the risk that the company will succeed. They don't get a paycheck like an employee, they get a profit when the company succeeds. Because they are taking the risk, they get to determine policy of the business. Why would they leave that in the hands of poor people who have no demonstrated experience with investing? The rich are in control because they take the risks. And for the greatest risks come the greatest rewards and the greatest falls.

6. self governance' date=' so no more rulers,kings chiefs,bishops,leaders of any sort.

7. coordinators will be chosen from the community based on how good that person is in character and how capable he is to do the task. once the task is done, no more coordinator.[/quote']

Good luck. There are always leaders. That is the nature of the human animal. And what you just described is... well... politicians. People who make policy, and chosen by their peers.

8. what is good and right will be known to people because they will have a good understanding of the knowledge ' date=' physics, chemistry, biology and psychology. i personaly like astronomy too.[/quote']

I thought that there were no standards of education? You might want to rethink this.

9.there will be no prisons' date=' if a person does somthing wrong then pay the panalty that is agreed upon by the community.[/quote']

So there is a justice system. What happens when a person says they are wrongly accused, or refuses to submit to the ruling of the system? What happens when they dirupt society over and over again and refuse to recognize the humanity of their fellow citizens? How do you handle such people with no prisons and only a .... financial penalty?

10. every one has the right to defend themselves' date=' self-defence.

11.people are free to practice their religion as long as they dont try and impose any thing on the community or influence the community that the community does not want.[/quote']

What happens when the majority of the citizens decide to base their concensus law on religious teachings? The majority concensus breaks the cardinal rule of no religion. Is the will of the people allowed to be ignored to enforce this standard?

 

at the moment only this comes to mind.but will post later other things. i need to know what the other members think .

Keep working on it! You may find out that this is far more difficulat than you initially imagined.

 

Bill

[IDMclean]

A society where the rules are all voluntary. What about those people who decide to live by rules that are not acceptable to others?

Most rules are voluntary in Anarchy. With exception of one:

Everybeing is free. Free to live, free to die, free to love, and to choose their own path in life. You retain these freedom in all aspects, save one. When you impeed on the freedom of another, such that their self is endangered, you immedately surrender the same freedom you are attempting to supress.

 

If you, by action of murder, or mutilation, supress the freedom of another to pursue life then you also shall lose the freedom of life. This is the right of self-defense. No one but you gets to decide when to finally clock out.

 

An anarchist based system of government. And majority rules. Very nice. How is the will of the majority... er .... concensus enforced?

 

By the citizens, by the people. Anarchy is an Egalitarian system. The police are people whom are invested with the power to enforce the will of the people, on behalf of those whom have other buissiness to attend to.

It is alwasy safe to say that politicians are liars. Wrap yourself in in like a warm blanket if you like, but understand that it is not a true statement. Politicians are the outcropping of any specialist society. In the society you are describing all citizens have a say in all issues. So who is it who frames the issues, and educates people about them, and attempts to sway people in favor of one alternative over another? Politicians. There is no such thing as society without politicians.

 

Perhaps then we are not talking about a society, perhaps we are talking about a culture. Politicians are the middle men. You go to them to reach the people in the higher ups. In an "Anti" "Archy", you have no "Higher" "Archy". There is no one higher up, you do not nessessarily have a executive or head of state.

 

Are you going to let companies be run in the same anarchist fashion? If a company needs capital investment to start, the person with the capital is taking the risk that the company will succeed. They don't get a paycheck like an employee, they get a profit when the company succeeds. Because they are taking the risk, they get to determine policy of the business. Why would they leave that in the hands of poor people who have no demonstrated experience with investing? The rich are in control because they take the risks. And for the greatest risks come the greatest rewards and the greatest falls.

 

The Economy of a Anarchy is a far more complex creature, and should be discussed in a seperate thread from the Power distribution portion of this all, but I'll take a stab at it.

 

Once again, the structure is egalitarian. People whom have money to invest do so in the same way as now, except where that investment creates a conflict of the interest of the people, or the Enviroment (and therefore indirectly the People). Who decides? The people of course. So no monopolies.

 

Taxes are a nessessary part of having a sovereign nation. Once again kick out the middle men, make transparent the PUBLIC taxes. The moeny collected is to uphold the state, and the state is abstraction of the People, therefore the people must have access to the information and say in the distribution of said taxes. Remember we do not have higher ups, we have a communal chest, and it is to be spent in maintainence of the people's state.

 

7. coordinators will be chosen from the community based on how good that person is in character and how capable he is to do the task. once the task is done, no more coordinator.

 

I had not thought of that before, that is a rather elagant solution to certain issues. This person would be invested with the Authority of a given number of people to act in their behalf, on projects that must be undertaken for the good of the state, correct?

 

I thought that there were no standards of education? You might want to rethink this.

Not no standards, simply the freedom of education. With all Rights and Privillages, comes Responsibilities and Obligations. It is the Right of the Parent to educate their child as they see fit, however it is also the responcibility of the Parent to make sure the child gets a good education, that the child is given enough to contribute likewise in the community as an adult.

 

9.there will be no prisons' date=' if a person does somthing wrong then pay the panalty that is agreed upon by the community.[/quote']

So there is a justice system. What happens when a person says they are wrongly accused, or refuses to submit to the ruling of the system? What happens when they dirupt society over and over again and refuse to recognize the humanity of their fellow citizens? How do you handle such people with no prisons and only a .... financial penalty?

 

I don't agree with this one, in the complete. As I do not agree with a death penalty and this is implied by the lack of a prison system. There is a rather sizable reform of laws that would have to go on, Decrimilatization of things like Cannabis.

 

Violent/Sexual Offenders would take up the Prison space. In some anarchy systems the power of capital punishment lies in the hands of the people... I however do not view such things as moral, and therefore have no place in an enlightened governing style. however Yes the people hold the power, and the Freedoms are held. A person is Innocent until proven guilty.

 

The key here is Freedom, and Education. This kind of structure requires decent education. It is much like what we have however it strives to return the power to where it belongs, in the hands of the people, to cut out the Parasitical ruling elite, those who grow fat on the suffering of the common man, those who exploit the resources of the land to their own gain.

 

A moral, reasonable, objective, encompassing, comprehensive, and knowledgable government.

[paigetheoracle]

here goes....

anarchist is a person who doesnot want a government to controle his life. he has rules that he follows.he is responsibel and cares for himself and others. he knows that in caring for himself and others it is a must that he cares for the environment of the earth.

 

anarchist society is made of these anarchists .they make the rules of living together in a society.they know that the survival does not mean a rat race among the members of the society but survival means coopration among the members of the society.

some of the features of the society

1. consensus based decision making systems.

2. full access to all info that affects the people.

3.so there will be no need for politicians(most of them are liers anyway, who needs them)

4. educate your child as you like, at home or in a school, you dont need to conform to a system that requires only bits and pieces be taught.

5. still working on the economy, but this much i know that the wealthy will not be allowed to run over the business of the not wealthy.and there will not be confusing language about taxes. there will be only one tax to build the community,thats it and no more.no free market formula cuz i think it is not sutable for a society that does not want a rat race among its members or externat controle.it is not communism so people who work harder and who work more should earn what they work for and keep it .

6. self governance, so no more rulers,kings chiefs,bishops,leaders of any sort.

7. coordinators will be chosen from the community based on how good that person is in character and how capable he is to do the task. once the task is done, no more coordinator.

8. what is good and right will be known to people because they will have a good understanding of the knowledge , physics, chemistry, biology and psychology. i personaly like astronomy too.

9.there will be no prisons, if a person does somthing wrong then pay the panalty that is agreed upon by the community.

10. every one has the right to defend themselves, self-defence.

11.people are free to practice their religion as long as they dont try and impose any thing on the community or influence the community that the community does not want.

 

Doesn't sound like what I'd define as anarchy but it does sound good: A bit like Native American and even ancient Celtic Government ways of running things. If people must be taxed, what about everybody paying the same percentage? (e.g. 10% If you're earning a £100, you pay £10/ £1,000 = £100 and so on - you can't say fairer than that). Not sure about prisons and punishment - robbery is one thing but how do you deal with murder?

[Boerseun]

Enforcing any of the 'anarchist rules' and 'concensus' you talk about, would need manpower. Educating kids would need manpower. Policing society, same. Handling court cases and prosecuting offenders would take up manpower. The administration of processing of taxes would also take manpower. The application of tax money to society's benefit would need full-time bean counters. And so on.

 

In effect, in order to make your anarchist vision work, you have reinvented beaurocracy all over again. BANG!!! Government appears, out of the blue. Back to the drawing board...

[UncleAl]

anarchist society is made of these anarchists .they make the rules of living together in a society.

Anarchy is no rules at all. Any rule book requires government - where there is no enforcement there are no laws.

[α CMa]

 

Doesn't sound like what I'd define as anarchy but it does sound good: A bit like Native American and even ancient Celtic Government ways of running things. If people must be taxed, what about everybody paying the same percentage? (e.g. 10% If you're earning a £100, you pay £10/ £1,000 = £100 and so on - you can't say fairer than that). Not sure about prisons and punishment - robbery is one thing but how do you deal with murder?

 

i am thinling on the same lines i.e. the same percentage.

 

pisons are not good, you die in there every day and from psychological point of view the person in the prison dwells only on the negative. in all my readings i have not found one prison system that is fair.

[α CMa]

Anarchy is no rules at all. Any rule book requires government - where there is no enforcement there are no laws.

 

yah! i am following "no" unfair laws by any idot. especially if he wants to force those on me. there are always the universal laws of fairness and goodness, like killing and all.

[α CMa]

Enforcing any of the 'anarchist rules' and 'concensus' you talk about, would need manpower. Educating kids would need manpower. Policing society, same. Handling court cases and prosecuting offenders would take up manpower. The administration of processing of taxes would also take manpower. The application of tax money to society's benefit would need full-time bean counters. And so on.

 

In effect, in order to make your anarchist vision work, you have reinvented beaurocracy all over again. BANG!!! Government appears, out of the blue. Back to the drawing board...

 

i think the community has to be small enough that every one knows every one . in a small community people police themselves , educate their own ,remember "it takes a village to raise a child" or educate one. in a community where people know and care about each other crime reate is low,any crimenal is caught immediately because he has no where to hide.

i live in a big cosmopolitan city and i know the big city package. i also know the parallel slum life and its parallel economy. we dont need a big fat government to force things on us. the little educated people of the slun settle their problems , disputes, education , economy by them selves. they dont need any big fat judicial or police systems. the slum people run a crude system of self governanca ,if highly educated people are governing themselves then the they can run the systen perfectly , and it will always be called anarchy.

[α CMa]

Keep working on it! You may find out that this is far more difficulat than you initially imagined.

 

Bill

hey......who said rome was built in a day;)

[infamous]

 

 

 

anarchist is a person who doesnot want a government to controle his life. he has rules that he follows.he is responsibel and cares for himself and others.

 

There is a rule in nature that goes something like this: The strong survive at the expense of the weak. In the anarchist society, the strong will prosper and the weak will suffer. If you are among the weak, who's rules will you be following and, who will plead your case when the strong make you bare the expense????....................Infy

[α CMa]

There is a rule in nature that goes something like this: The strong survive at the expense of the weak. In the anarchist society, the strong will prosper and the weak will suffer. If you are among the weak, who's rules will you be following and, who will plead your case when the strong make you bare the expense????....................Infy

 

psychology says that people need each other to remain sane. and i dont have to live with insane people. there are plenty of sane people who are looking for alternatives to the insanities of the big cosmopolitan,consumer mad, police state ,unfair/selfish, self indulgent/why should i care about any one, style of life. i have seen those people. and the are growing in there awareness of the alternatives. some one said "if you are alive you can creat your world" meaning i dont have to conform to any stupid ideas. remember with the proper understanding of the psychology and the right intentions one can be a good person. every one has and knows what is good. goodness is somthing that every one knows.

who's rules? like i said the proper understanding of sciences and the right mind that recgnizes goodness will always come to the same rules like killing is bad, stealing is bad, lies lead to disharmony which leads to community destruction which leads to individuals being alone which leads to mentaly sick people. did any one notice how lonely the people in the big cities are. the only friends they have are the ones working in the same office. their families dont have those warm friendly relations that a society needs to remain mentally healthy. if you loose your job the friends go with it.

 

the strong who survives at the expence of the weak is called a bully at the human level,lower than human will be called an animal.the thinking of a bully is that of an unfair person who would steal from you when you are weak, bully will hurt you only because he knows you are physically weaker than him.a bully is a coward. if a bunch of bullies force a life on me that i dont want ,i think it is better to die coz living a life that you dont want is like dieing every day like in a prison, but i have options.options to live with the unfairness and conform to it or dont live with the bullies. yrust me the bully type is in minority. and the stupid majority does not use their brains enough. but it makes me think that we allow the power is in the hands of the few when we conform to the bully.

[infamous]

A nation without law is little more than a jungle with paved highways........Infy

[α CMa]

A nation without law is little more than a jungle with paved highways........Infy

well, this is a common mistake that anarchy means no law at all.all anarchists have rules.which are based on facts and reason,which goes back to psychology! remember the anarchist come together to live in a community where they decide their rules and not conform to some bully's rules.

i dont want wall mart in my area and the local shop keepers are with me. do i have to conform to having a wall mart?

[infamous]

well' date=' this is a common mistake that anarchy means no law at all.all anarchists have rules.[/quote']Websters......anarchy The absense of government, political disorder and violence, confusion. About that last definition 'confusion', I believe it describes your understanding of the word Anarchy if I may be allowed the opinion?........Infy

[α CMa]

Websters......anarchy The absense of government, political disorder and violence, confusion. About that last definition 'confusion', I believe it describes your understanding of the word Anarchy if I may be allowed the opinion?........Infy

you should check anarchism also.

[α CMa]

revenge is a negative thing. if a society seeks revenge it will not survive for long.