The Anarchy of Offensive Speech

[Buffy]

Ah, got your attention. For the record, I don't really believe you're any of those things, I just needed to get you to start to understand the implications of your actions. You say you believe you are a sociopath and you wish harm upon yourself from your actions that are not accepted as normal in society: I don't believe that, mostly because I've heard so many teenagers say it in an extreme attempt to rebel against parents, society, or whatever they say is oppressing them. In fact, in spite of your statements to the contrary, the length and tone of your response here, and from your reaction to other posts on this forum, its pretty clear you do get offended. You might think about those feelings and how you might like to act toward others to make things work better for you.

 

You get a certain dispensation simply because we're nice folks around here, and in this case, you were not the one performing the original offensive action, only defending another poster for an offense that many of us find indefensible. To the extent however that your post makes it seem like such behavior is justified, you incurred a certain amount of wrath. But you also need to realize that the *attitude* that you are advocating is *highly* anti-social, and this was simply a warning to you and others that it has consequences. The fact that you can't bring yourself to directly address this fact or that such reactions are justfied indicates that somewhere inside you, you do question your behavior. Let's hope that little meme grows.

 

It is of course highly appropriate that this blew up in a thread discussing anarchy, although *not* because anything that DarkLight said was actually justified. It just goes to show that the kind of anarchy you seem to be advocating degrades into a horrible mess that even you really would not enjoy. Its been a while since I've done Psychodrama, but it has its interesting benefits.

 

Thank you for your cooperation, and I look forward to your enlightened posts in the future!

 

Uber Mom,

Buffy

[IDMclean]

You say you believe you are a sociopath and you wish harm upon yourself from your actions that are not accepted as normal in society:

 

Where did I say this, cause I don't have recollection of such a statement. That is a rare.

 

you are advocating is *highly* anti-social

Once again, I said i am anything but? this would seem to be another lapse in my memory.

 

The fact that you can't bring yourself to directly address this fact or that such reactions are justfied indicates that somewhere inside you, you do question your behavior. Let's hope that little meme grows.

 

Directly address what?

 

Now Buffy, I seem to have been the butt of a cruel joke that I still don't understand, you seem to feel that you have gleened some ammount of knowledge about me, through a non-toned (you know what I mean), non-body languaged, or otherwise distiguishing piece of writting.

 

I admit that I get offended, that is not issue, what is issue is what is done with that sense of offence, what is done with those feelings.

 

Oh as for Uber mom, you don't compare. My mom is many things that NO person has ever measured up to, that I have met as of yet anyway.

 

As for Psychodrama? Hardly. There was no comedy, and therefore is no drama.

 

As I pointed out, Buffy. You come from two places that I dislike emmensely, 1) Age superiority. You are nothing but the content of your character, of which age has little baring on. 2) Authority-compliance. This is a weak stance, as it requires that the one you are appealling to give a crap about authority. To me, Buffy, you are another human being with thoughts, opinions, and beliefs and are everybit fallible as anyone esle.

 

You, right now, in my eyes, are playing a game in which one person is a winner and one is a loser. I refuse to play such games, and if that is what this forum is about I will gladdly leave and take all contributions I have made with me. Not a threat, just the truth as I strive always to tell.

 

I am here to discuss, exchange and otherwise converse my feelings, ideas, beliefs, opinions, and wisdom with others. Not to win, or to degrade others. To exchange, pleasantly. I have editted my offending post, so as to hopefully be a little more clearer.

 

I am fascinated/appauled by the various reactions I have witnessed over the last month on these forums in regards to people and their point's of view. Like wise i have been feeling that Perhaps this is not the best, nor most understanding, and therefore not the most mature, place to discuss my thoughts at.

 

I repeatedly get rebuffed and attacked for my personal moral assertions. For my belief that we should discuss instead of simply deny on merit of popular opinion in the guise of science.

 

Often I have noticed that various members will demand proof of one thing and then let the same slide of another, basicly on consenus.

 

I speek the truth, as far as i am able to see it and as purely as I can, I know that such truths, expecially when they reveal one's self in unfavorable light, can be painful. It still baffles me how one can call stick man, and then attack the messenger. How interchagnable the series of by-laws and rules of the forum and of logic are when it comes down to the human aspect, that of personal feeling and attachment.

 

Anyway, make no exception for me, I am but a person. I am no better than DCL, Dwattiswari, MagnetMan, or Uncle AI. I am with my quirks and my stong biases, my inappropriate (by social standards) beliefs. However if I always went with the main stream, how could I expect to discover new things? How could I ever expect to advance beyond my prejuidices?

[IDMclean]

Alright I am just going to put this up with as little talking as I can, as it would seem at the moment I am under unfavorable, biased, light. Therefore subject to Ad hominem.

 

Anarchism

Noam Chomsky

"Notes on Anarchism" in For Reasons of State

Noam Chomsky, 1970

Anarchy Archives

 

Anarchism is the name for both a political philosophy and manner of organizing society, derived from the Greek ἀναρχία ("without archons" or "without chiefs"). Thus "anarchism," in its most general meaning, is the belief that all forms of rulership are undesirable and should be abolished. Anarchism also refers to related philosophies and social movements that advocate the elimination of coercive institutions. Although it has been traditionally and popularly described as anti-capitalist[1], the latter 20th century saw a contentious, free market formulation called anarcho-capitalism. The word "anarchy", as most anarchists use it, does not imply chaos, nihilism, or anomie, but rather a harmonious anti-authoritarian society that is based on voluntary association of free individuals in autonomous communities, mutual aid, and self-governance.

 

Anti-Civilationization Anarchy, Not my thing but hey just so you know it's out there.

 

Practicle Anarchy, Sounds more like my kind, I will need to read through this myself.

 

“Anarchism… stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government.” — Emma Goldman

 

The word ‘anarchy’ comes from the ancient Greek αναρχία in which αν meant ‘without’ and αρχία meant first a military ‘leader’ and then ‘ruler’. So an anarchist society is one ‘without rulers’: a classless, non-hierarchical society. The history of attempts to create such a society in the modern era is the history of anarchism.

 

Aussie Anarchy, Coolness.

 

I hope that is enough to be informative and to get some people in the curious zone of things, and somewhat out of the Authoritive zone of things.

[DarkColoredLight]

If you really don't care what other people think remember two things:

[*]People will consider you to be a self-centered sociopath and will want to have nothing to do with you.

[*]Some people will take offense--who you obviously feel are lower forms of life because they "can't take a joke"--and some of them carry guns and have itchy trigger fingers

 

So as long as I put up a front that I'm not a self-centered sociopath, then I can have a voice in this world. Twist my thoughts in a way that's more pleasing to the aged ear, so it might actually want to hear what I have to say? Then, I can be a charismatic intelligent self-centered sociopath. Or in other words successful in life.

 

I speek for criminal thoughts.

I also speek for all the self-centered sociopaths out there. So if you're a self-centered sociopath, that wants to take over the world and is in need of another self-centered sociopath to listen, learn, and help to take over the world. Just drop me a line in my pm box. We'll discuss taking over the world via this internet forum. Which has allowed us the freedom of speech to devise such a plan.

 

-Captian EXTREME Obvious

 

Now seriously, if two or more like people, shunned from having a voice in society. Get together to start up a some everlasting effect. Don't you think there's that chance it will fully go through? I'm sure the few troop ralliers have a better chance putting their life earnings into lottery tickets and winning, than a bunch of rebels actually taking over the world. But the chance, possibilities, opportunities are, with time, ripening the fruit of an uprise. :)

 

So keep doing what you're doing. And keep getting what you're getting. Right.

 

Here ends the reading of:

Book of Criminal Thoughts, Chapter One, Verses One - Two Thousand Six

[DarkColoredLight]

I'm sorry you take this all so personally, but really, you're not the center of the universe. ...

I suppose since I act like Im the center of my own universe, my own life. That I should bow before your age difference, and learn how to revolve around you? Therefore I keep a steady distance, and out of your comfort zone. My comfort zone is light-years away from me, even through internet connection you are in my comfort zone. If that make's me anti social and self centered I will accept that, so you don't have to. Because I'm also self conscious. Self helped by keeping away from what I see as; WOOP WOOP DANGER ... DANGER ... DANGER. Then, using the hard way I'll learn to shade my colors, my persona, to blend in with the "main steam." Subconciously I'll be a self centered wanty immature kid, but I'll look and sound just like a giving mature adult.

That is part of the spiral of life. If you disagree, take a walk in my shoes and be thankful you did't have to put those shoes on everyday for 19 years. Because you had your own shoes to live in. Your own life. But, don't feed me the same old listen to me, learn from me, be like me I'm smarter than you additude. Those terms are what offend me, those points probably give you some sort of joy. Make you content with your life, happy. Those are what make you the same as me, just in a different shades. A different person.

 

 

I might look Dark, I might look Light. But, in the middle of my looks, I truly am Colored.

 

I'll use sarcasum to act immature for this one.

I'm just a kid, what do I know?

 

I have plenty more to say, but I won't waste my breath responding to every sentence you have to offer. Because one sentence is all I can take right now.

 

All I am asking you to consider is that your view that if your words and actions have negative effects then its someone else's fault may in fact be detrimental to how you are treated by others. ("Where did I say that?" Honest, listen to your words!)

So I should rethink, the thought's that are rightfully mine. Created in my mind, displayed through my posts, speech, and actions which may or may not be taken negativly because what I subconsciously think is tainted. Then, it's not someone else's fault because they treat me like a mother father piece of doodoo that will never amount to nothing.

 

Here, I'll even decode my message for you. And then we can compair notes in a pm, so I can "learn" to "change"

 

I'm speeking for you when "I" get offended. Putting words in your mouth, thoughts in your head. Because that's my perception of how you see me.

 

Something else, fudge it.

[Tormod]

So I should rethink, the thought's that are rightfully mine. Created in my mind, displayed through my posts, speech, and actions which may or may not be taken negativly because what I subconsciously think is tainted.

 

At least understand this: The fact that the thoughts may or may not be yours, does NOT imply that you have to share them here at Hypography.

 

Second, sharing them gives you a responsibility for what you have said (or rather, written), not for what you have thought (nor for what you think you may have written, if you get my drift). This also means that you are responsible for following our rules, regardless of what anyone else says, thinks, or writes.

[DarkColoredLight]

At least understand this: The fact that the thoughts may or may not be yours, does NOT imply that you have to share them here at Hypography.

 

Second, sharing them gives you a responsibility for what you have said (or rather, written), not for what you have thought (nor for what you think you may have written, if you get my drift). This also means that you are responsible for following our rules, regardless of what anyone else says, thinks, or writes.

 

I can accept that. I'd rather be able to post 1,001 thought out posts, then to not be able to post one unthought post. Which will eventually lead to the opposite, which would be me posting one thought out post rather than 1,001 unthought post. It's better to aim, then to just start shooting at random.

[IDMclean]

"Innocence can be redefined and called stupidity. Honesty can be called gullibility. Candor becomes lack of common sense. Interest in your work can be called cowardice. Generosity can be called softheadedness, and observe: the former is disturbing, the latter is not. It can be dalt with. You can deal with a jerk or a fool or a pollyanna or something of the sort. But nobody knows how to deal with an honest man"

 

One always must give up one thing to have another. I surrendered my security for my freedom. I surrendered my social acceptability for my honesty. there are those who would tell me, to act some way contrary to this, to surrender my honesty, once again, to be more socially acceptable. There are those who would tell me to surrender my freedom for security, once again.

 

I would do niether for to do so would be to compromise the integerty of my character.

 

I know that there is the easy path, and the right path, and that the right path is not always the easiest. However it is the right path, and therefore I shall walk it, come rain or shine. Even if in the end it leads me to solitude.

 

I am a Martyr, and to me that is acceptable. I am not a fanatic. I'm not going to blow myself up in the name of this or that cause. I would take a bullet for a fellow human. I would stand up for anyone whom performed work of the righteous sort, that was moral and good.

 

I accept with pride that I would live, stand and die for what I believe is right, no matter what came of it. I have conviction, I know where I stand. I don't need others to tell me what is right or wrong, I can decide that myself. Can you say the same?

[Buffy]

Righteousness is not the same as being right. Both Jesus and Hitler were righteous and absolutely convinced that they should proceed in their quests in an unwavering manner. Jesus however was right and understood his fellow man, and the bible shows many examples where he modified his behavior to accomodate the acheivement of his goals, most of which even non-believers agree are good and right. Hitler was oblivious to the fact that his beliefs were detrimental to his fellow man and would not hear of altering his views because he was sure of the destiny of the thousand year Reich.

 

This analogy is presented not to associate anyone with either of these extremes, simply to point out that mere righteousness can blind one to the true meaning and effects of ones beliefs. Condemning and disregarding any opinions or beliefs that disagree with ones own is a sure way to ensure static beliefs that do not grow or evolve. They become static and without modification due to feedback, atrophy and die.

 

Learning is good. It makes humans and other living beings grow. It is not always pleasant, because it forces change. Change is good. Life is about growing and interacting with others. Being part of a society, even when it does not agree with you is good. This requires empathy. Principles can conflict with empathy, and bending principles to encourage empathy encourages cooperation and mutual support that leads to growth and even reestablishment of those principles over time if they prove to be right. Empathy is good.

 

A rock feels no pain, :eek:

Buffy

[IDMclean]

right·eous Audio pronunciation of "righteous" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rchs)

adj.

 

1. Morally upright; without guilt or sin: a righteous parishioner.

2. In accordance with virtue or morality: a righteous judgment.

3. Morally justifiable: righteous anger. See Synonyms at moral.

 

I did not say my structure excludes all things only wrong things. Every suggestion is weighed and balanced against everything else, and for the most part nothing that I have not already concidered is ever suggested.

 

I have Very strong morals. I know where I stand, I know that my way is just. I know that I err, for I am human but I also know that others err for they are human.

 

This thread is not the place for me to describe my belief system, but mostly it comes down to the teachings of Great people, including Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.

[paigetheoracle]

In defence of Darkcolouredlight I'd just like to say that offence like praise is in the ear of the beholder and both these imposters ("If" by Rudyard Kipling) will be taken by the listener through the haze of their own prejudices and fears. What he 'meant' may not have been what you 'thought' he said. Coloured people use the term to apply to themselves but heaven help a politically incorrect white person to use the term. The real question is not does the word offend you but was the person trying to offend you or use these particular terms to convey something else? Having accidently been the perpetrator (and reciever) of similar reactions in the usage of language, I must point out that the words are not necessarily the things indicated and associations we have may lead us astray in this area without us consciously recognizing it.

 

So, Dark, what is your point really and can you paraphrase what you said to make it clearer? That is substitute some terms for others or use different words, so as not to be misunderstood: Let's all sit back and listen a second time, instead of jump to the conclusion we think we know what he meant, okay?

[DarkColoredLight]

So, Dark, what is your point really and can you paraphrase what you said to make it clearer? That is substitute some terms for others or use different words, so as not to be misunderstood: Let's all sit back and listen a second time, instead of jump to the conclusion we think we know what he meant, okay?

 

 

Appropriate use of "nigga" (as Malcolm X said, it's best understood as a socioeconomic, not racial term)

 

Thanks CraigD for enlightening me with that.

 

I'll let that speek for me. So I can do a little action.

[Buffy]

Appropriate use of "nigga" (as Malcolm X said, it's best understood as a socioeconomic, not racial term)

Malcolm was murdered long before it was adopted by "hip-hop culture" (and really it was earlier use by Richard Pryor that got this going) used as a badge of courage, and in spite of its wide use in music and art, it is still considered just as derrogatory today as it was in Malcolm's day. Notably he was assassinated for breaking with the Black Muslim movement for not being adequately antagonistic toward whites, which is where this statement from him comes from, and the meaning is not to say that because its socioeconomic, its better: what he was saying was it wasn't simply an epithet for "black" but rather a tool by racists to keep black people poor.

 

The complaint of conservative blacks is that this broad and flippant use of Nigga is a way to perpetuate this "black people should be kept in the ghetto" BY blacks.

 

Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it, :hihi:

Buffy

[DarkColoredLight]

Okay buffy, I'm just a wrong *** nigga. You're right. :)

[TheBigDog]

Don't cave so easily DCL. You have only used one racial slur so far. There are so many others to choose from to make your point.

 

Besides, Buffy was not entirly correct.

 

Notably he was assassinated for breaking with the Black Muslim movement for not being adequately antagonistic toward whites, which is where this statement from him comes from, and the meaning is not to say that because its socioeconomic, its better: what he was saying was it wasn't simply an epithet for "black" but rather a tool by racists to keep black people poor.

I am am a bit of a Malcolm X buff, so I have to correct this statement. Malcolm left the Nation of Islam after he confronted the so called "Honorable" Elijah Mohommad about why he preached one thing but practiced another. Seems the so called "Honorable" Elijah Mohommad had been out fornicating among the faithful and was using church funds to cover up his 4 bastard (DCL, note that "bastard" is properly used) children with 4 young un-wed mothers. Malcolm was so put off by this hypocracy that he left the Nation of Islam to do some soul searching. When he returned from the Middle East having found out that Islam was not the fictional "black" religion that he had been taught, but was in fact a religion blind to race, he publicly denounced much of his earlier rheteric while publicly attacking with words his former organization. His word were met with violent acts aimed at both he and his family. He was soon murdered by the "Fruit of Islam", the security force that he had run while he was with the Nation of Islam. While he kept up his stance about US oppression of blacks for his whole life public, he was a fascinating character who grew and changed with time, and is very often mis-characterized.

 

The movie by Spike Lee was garbage. The Autobiography of Malcolm X is a must read for anyone who want broader perspective on the race issues of the 40's, 50's and 60's than you get from most books and movies.

 

As for the word "nigga" (is that even a word? slang of slang?) that at the beginning of this thead appears in what I believe was a Two Pack garbage poem I must say this... know your audience. Some words are not for general consumption and carry a great deal of weight that may not sit well with those hearing them. Your use of those words defines your own character to your audience. Speak in the way you wish to me remembered.

 

Bill

[DarkColoredLight]

Don't cave so easily DCL. You have only used one racial slur so far. There are so many others to choose from to make your point.

 

I'm just moving on from this wheel-spinning thread. I'd rather have thought driven conversation, rather than have thoughts crammed down my throat.

 

I've had about enough thoughts forced in me. Started with cramming thoughts in my mouth. Eventually getting digested and held in my mind. Through out my life I kept chewing because that's what I was told to do. But, I couldn't chew fast enough, so thought's were piled on my plate. Eventually spilling all over the table, floor, and filling my house. After my house was filled with thoughts people just left their thoughts at the door, which again piled up. Then, they spilled out on to the streets. Following me every where I went. Now my whole world is crawling with crazy thoughts. The differance now is I consider if I want to chew on them or step on them. But, I had to choke and almost sufficate to death before I realized what everyone was doing to my mind. My mind is still over weight with thoughts, so I have to exercise that exrta weight off my head. With that I'm going to go work out. So I can whoop the next fat head that comes at me with their thoughts.

 

 

My point isn't about racial slurs. It's about offensive speech. Just because it's not a "bad" word does NOT mean it's not offensive.

 

The words that cut the deepest are offensive speech, not offensive words. The "no, listen to me", "no, you're wrong", "I'm right so learn how to be like me." To me, that is offensive speech. Putting me on the defensive. Untill I burst and start fights with anyone and everyone. Now, who is that REALLY helping?

 

"Rather love me or leave me alone." - Jay Z

 

at the beginning of this thead appears in what I believe was a Two Pack garbage poem

Throw the garbage away, or make something beautiful out of it. But, do not call it garbage. Because it will remember, and seek revenge. Ya 'eard?

[Buffy]

I'm just glad we've *jointly* come to the conclusion--not me or any other gray shoving it down your thoat--that there is such a thing as offensive speech, and maybe, just maybe we can agree that being nice to each other is a heck of a lot better than not, even if it means we *choose* to go against our *desire* to say whatever the @#$% we want.

 

Big: I read "The Auto..." but never saw the movie. Your facts are correct, but there are those who have interpretations of the conflict similar to what I posted above (first hand from Ishmael Reed...maybe some people think he's an Oreo (was that the word you were looking for?)...profuse apologies for the epithet!)...while his early fiery rhetoric was perfectly in line with the NOI's virulent and monolithic hatred of "white devils" (I've always loved his "cream in coffee" parable), you see some recognition of the political power of working with anti-racist liberals, some of which came from his recognition of Islam successfully bridging all races....no one is "right" on any of this "interpretation," its all just opinions colored by our souls...

 

History is a people's memory, and without a memory, man is demoted to the lower animals, :evil:

Buffy