Racoon Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 The 2 soldiers who were taken prisoner in Iraq a few days ago suffered horribly. They were barbarically tortured, beheaded, had their hearts removed and had their penises cut-off and shoved in their mouths. :) So, where are the Human Rights guys when it happens against US troops??Wheres the prisoner abuse whistle blowers at now?? It makes me sick. :thumbs_up Quote
Lancaster Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 I couldn't agree more. It shocks me when people complain about places like Guantanamo Bay. Here are ignorant Americans crying out for justice for the poor terrorists that don't have a nice Quar'ran, or fluffy enough pillows. These people want you dead. They don't want to negotiate. They want your children dead and your house burned down. They hate you without ever seeing you. They behead prisoners, and we have to make sure that they are happy prisoners. Look at the second quote on my sig. Quote
Mercedes Benzene Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 They were barbarically tortured, beheaded, had their hearts removed and had their penises cut-off and shoved in their mouths. Ewwwww. OMG. I did not even hear that! That is one of the most cruel and disgusting things I have ever heard. I hate terrorists, and all those other freaking Islamic extremists who think that by torturing and killing people they will go straight to heaven. If someone is as heartless and cruel as these people, then they deserve nothing less than an eternity in hell!!:eek_big: Quote
InfiniteNow Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 Lead by example. Violence begets violence. Hate begets hate. Forgiveness, compassion, patience... beget a better world. Quote
Mercedes Benzene Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 True true.I apologize for my hateful remarks. Please forgive me infinite.:eek_big: Quote
Edella Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 I It shocks me when people complain about places like Guantanamo Bay. Here are ignorant Americans crying out for justice for the poor terrorists that don't have a nice Quar'ran, or fluffy enough pillows. Not all of us who question the reasons for Guantanamo Bay are as ignorant as you suggest.Some question why the facility is in Cuba and not on U.S. soil,and why many are without access to any court or legal counsel.Those accused of even the most heinous acts are given a trial in America,citizen or not.I agree some humanitarians organizations have gone to far, and live in "happy bunny rainbow land".I think it's possible some of the detainees are innocent,but without a trial(indeed not even charged with anything),there seems to be a legal "black hole." I have no compassion for terrorists,and couldn't care less about their comforts.I simply think we need to be damn sure they are terrorists. It's been years since I was in the army and studied the military code of justice and Geneva conventions.I'm sure things have changed,but I think detaining people without charging them is bad policy. Quote
Probable Uncertainty Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 you do not treat you enemy nice and humane because you want for your own people the same nice and humane treatment. you do it because you are civilised man, not animal. Quote
pgrmdave Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 More is expected of the United States because it should be. There is nothing surprizing about terrorists treating people poorly, but for the United States, a nation which prides itself on the ideal that all men, whether gentle or rough, kind or cruel, are created equal. It is the juxtaposition of our actions versus our ideals which people cry out against. Our critics do not claim the other side is better, but that we have a tendancy to see things in black and white - us and them - right and wrong, when the truth is that there are some times when we screw up and hurt people, torture, and we need to understand that we are, sometimes, no better than those against whom we fight. ughaibu, Edella and Kayra 3 Quote
Kayra Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 Giving a government... ANY government... the right to arbitrarily decide who should be imprisoned, questioned, and tortured.. without any oversight or recourse for the individual, is the epitome of stupidity for a society. If that same government decided, with or without cause (how would you know anyway), that you(or your spouse, or your child) was a terrorist threat, and decided to imprison and question you for a few years to determine if you were or not involved, would you still believe it was the right course of action? Sounds to me like a country that Saddam himself would be proud to be a leader of... in fact, he was. Without oversight (somebody outside looking in) and due process (laws and methods agreed upon by the society) you give that government ultimate power over YOU!!!! The laws are there to protect YOU!!! Protect you from your own government. If society determines that such acts are required to ensure the safety of said society, then they must be enacted within the existing framework of that society. To do anything less is to spit in the face of everyone that fought for that society. The acts of those terrorists only drives home the absolute need for this. Quote
Lancaster Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 America does not realize how free it is. We are spoiled, beyond a doubt, and take our rights for granted. Wwe are lucky to even been holding open conversation about a topic like this. Everyday I think, "what would it be like to have to be careful about every word I say, because death entails my opinion?" I cannot stand when people get mad about organizations like the NSA tracking phone calls. They don't care what YOU are doing. YOU sould have nothing to hide. I would jump at the chance to allow the NSA to tap my phones, then they would know that I have nothing to hide. The only people who need to be afraid are terrorists. We take our rights for granted. Quote
Kayra Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 It has taken me a while just to try to think about how to respond to that. All aspects of what the NSA are tracking and what they do with that information is secret. Americans have absolutely no idea what the NSA is recording, nor do they have any legal means of finding out. You are correct in that if you have nothing to hide, then you should have no concerns... IF you can be assured that your government is acting responsibly, and in your best interests at all times, and in all ways. Do you think that is the case? If even one employee of the NSA in a position of authority were to decide to use information garnered with their new technologies and methods to make themselves rich (or powerful), what then? Insider stock information, blackmail, account passwords passed via E-Mail, the list is endless. How many employees are in the NSA? Do they use reasonable means of protecting the information they acquire? What methods of policing themselves do they use? Are they effective against someone in a position of authority?NONE of these questions can be answered satisfactorily due to the absolute necessity of secrecy. To give such an organization carte Blanche to all information without checks and balances in place is lunacy. Quote
Lancaster Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 I trust my government, just like I trust the police force to protect me or the fire dept. to come to my rescue in an emergency. I trust the NSA to use technology to uncover terrorism before it starts. The point of the NSA is to protect YOU and many people forget that. After watching television programs with corrupt policemen and evil government organizations, that's all we see anymore. It seems like when you boil down a lot of problems, TV has had a part in them.... Quote
InfiniteNow Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 It seems like when you boil down a lot of problems, TV has had a part in them....Or perhaps you only understand the world through your TV... Your TV, and those presenting information through this medium, are not necessarily the CAUSE of the problem, despite how strong your mental association between the two may be. I do not claim that the media is not biased, only that you are trying show causation where there only exists correlation. Quote
Lancaster Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 Or perhaps you only understand the world through your TV... Your TV, and those presenting information through this medium, are not necessarily the CAUSE of the problem, despite how strong your mental association between the two may be. I do not claim that the media is not biased, only that you are trying show causation where there only exists correlation. That's true. It's like money is not the root of all evil; the want of money is the root of all evil...:) But the thing that scares me the most is the MTV generation. If they only cared about the outside world instead of who Britney Spear's nanny is, maybe we would have a different world today. Even if they would just watch Fox News or CNN from time to time....For instance, the Vote or Die campaign endorsed by celebs like 'P. Diddy' and Paris Hilton just told teens to get out and vote. Great idea, right? Wrong. They just voted for who the celebs voted for. They didn't care about the issues. There's a difference between voting and voting for the candidate because you understand the issues. :hihi: Quote
InfiniteNow Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 But the thing that scares me the most is the MTV generation. If they only cared about the outside world instead of ...Maybe they care too much? Maybe the distraction is the only way they can avoid going through life in a perpetual state of anxiety? Maybe we all look for an escape every once in a while, but fault others if we feel they do it too often... Agreed. I'm about to go bump a thread on complacency. Cheers. Quote
Lancaster Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 Please do, I need to rant some more. Quote
Freddy Posted June 21, 2006 Report Posted June 21, 2006 I trust my government, just like I trust the police force to protect me or the fire dept. to come to my rescue in an emergency. I trust the NSA to use technology to uncover terrorism before it starts. The point of the NSA is to protect YOU and many people forget that. After watching television programs with corrupt policemen and evil government organizations, that's all we see anymore. It seems like when you boil down a lot of problems, TV has had a part in them.... I do not trust my government! Quote
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