Voices in your head, and insanity (do they go together?)

[Turtle]

There's an interesting article on this subject today on the FoxNews website. It seems there are more "perfectly normal" people who hear voices, than psychologists previously realized. It's just that they don't seek psychotherapy because they don't see it as an issue.

On the boldened: this is exactly what is wrong with all psychotherapy derived from statistical models (which is all of them;) ).:esmoking:

 

I saw the article too EW and liked it. I have always thought the "voice" in my head was just me, moreover I don't consider it really auditory as you earlier described in this thread.

When it comes to voices - and visual - "hallucinations" I always think to refer to John Nash. Here's a short bio:

http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/nash.htm

[Michaelangelica]

On the boldened: this is exactly what is wrong with all psychotherapy derived from statistical models (which is all of them;) ).:hihi:

 

Unfortunately very little psychotherapy is derived from Stastical Modeling.

[Turtle]

Unfortunately very little psychotherapy is derived from Stastical Modeling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_statistics

Care to elaborate in support of that statement Micha? In 99.9% (+-5%:hyper: ) of all psychological analysis I have read (or you care to offer into evidence), there is no substantiation other than numbers and their statistical analysis from case studies.:shrug: In other words, there's a whole lotto guessin' goin' on.:doh: ;) :eek2:

[Michaelangelica]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_statistics

Care to elaborate in support of that statement Micha? In 99.9% (+-5%:umno: ) of all psychological analysis I have read (or you care to offer into evidence), there is no substantiation other than numbers and their statistical analysis from case studies.:hyper: In other words, there's a whole lotto guessin' goin' on.:eek: :) :hihi:

Psychotherapy is more of an art than a science.

There is no statistical support for Freudian, Jungian, Gestalt, tor any other psychotherapy system I know of.

One of the problems of modern psychology is that thee are thousands of experiments (usually on college students or rats) that are analysed statistically but that does not make a coherent or consistent theory or model.

Perhaps with the one exception of Skinner's (behaviourism)work which I think is only a very inadequate and small part of the story.

[HydrogenBond]

Statistical support would doom psychology to correlation, which is the lowest form of science, just a notch above alchemy. Rational models are far better.

 

Part of the problem with psychology is that most of the good data occurs within the mind and imagination, yet it is researched from outside. If you saw a person crying, one may assume sadness, but it may be tears of joy or one may have just been cutting onions. If one explores this same crying from inside there would no longer be the same confusion that can lead to three conflicting theories. The superfisical approach creates more jobs and so-called experts but doesn't lead to the truth.

 

The seocnd aspect of the problem is that most scientists are too afraid to generate hard data within themselves to prove their theories especially with respect to adnormal psychology. They would prefer let someone else asume the risk. This creates a level of subjective separation. Within this subjective separation their own subjecitve inner bias affect how they perceive the superfisical data. They will selectively see data that reinforces what they want to see and interpret it that way. The cart leads the horse.

 

For example, Freud was preoccupied with sex due to an affair with his sister in law. He was thinking with his lower brain and id, thereby biasing his understanding with his own inner drives. If he had been collectiing inner data, he would have realized he was filtering his perception with his own unconscious bias and assuming eveyone was like him.

[Michaelangelica]

Statistical support would doom psychology to correlation, which is the lowest form of science, just a notch above alchemy. Rational models are far better.

Psychology rarely uses correlation. It is a very poor predictive statistical method.

Agreed there are very few good, all encompasing, models about; unlike economics.

My favourite models would be Transactional Analaysis and Gestalt

 

Psychology dearly wants to be a science, not philosophy, but many great insights have been made by philosophical psychologist/psychiatrists like Freud Jung,and James.

 

Have you read Sacks?

eg "The Man who Thought his Wife was a Hat" I find books like this (case studies) full of wisdom

[InfiniteNow]

First, HydrogenBond is making many assumptions and speaking from personal opionion, not fact.

 

However, much of psychology, and other sciences use correlation to show tendencies and trends. However, it's important to note that correlation does not prove causation.

 

Psychology is a science, and it doesn't desperately want anything. Desire is reserved for those engaged in the practice of psychology. Much of psychology is an attempt to understand consciousness, a very sticky wicket.

 

Even quantum mechanics fails to fully take into account the concept of consciousness, and in this regard psychology is and has been well ahead of physics.

 

Oh, and what the hell is "truth?" Come on...

[arkain101]

I think there is relative truths.

 

But when the concsiousness or heart is added to the equation I think this is where there is truth, even if we've forgot it.

 

A part of ourselves that seems to have laws that everyone would unite with. In your heart, there resides truth. Heart I mean the purpose you live in.

[Michaelangelica]

However, much of psychology, and other sciences use correlation to show tendencies and trends.

I don't think this is true.

The bigger the fire the greater number of firemen at the fire.

Therefore more firemen cause bigger fires?

 

I don't think so.

Statistical analysis of psychological experiments is a lot more sophisticated than correlation

[InfiniteNow]

The bigger the fire the greater number of firemen at the fire.

Therefore more firemen cause bigger fires?

 

I don't think so.

Yes, you are correct. This is wrong, however, I am not sure where in my post I suggested that correlation proved causation nor the concept of a spurious relationship being useful in the study of psychology.

 

Statistical analysis of psychological experiments is a lot more sophisticated than correlation

Can you help me to understand how you see the two as different? A vast number of statistical analyses are used to calculate correlation. Parametric Pearson's r, one and two tailed t-tests, chi squared, nonparametric spearman ranking, linear and fourier analysis and regressions, and all manner of other statistical analyses are directly used to calculate correlations... :evil:

[Michaelangelica]

More on voices

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/060914_voices.htm

[Michaelangelica]

Yes, you are correct. This is wrong, however, I am not sure where in my post I suggested that correlation proved causation nor the concept of a spurious relationship being useful in the study of psychology.

 

 

Can you help me to understand how you see the two as different? A vast number of statistical analyses are used to calculate correlation. Parametric Pearson's r, one and two tailed t-tests, chi squared, nonparametric spearman ranking, linear and fourier analysis and regressions, and all manner of other statistical analyses are directly used to calculate correlations... :naughty:

I am no mathamatician, but it seems to me some of the above,like T tests, are tests of significance not correlation.

[Michaelangelica]

ALL IN THE MIND - Journeys to Recovery

Saturday December 16, 1pm & Wednesday December 20, 9pm, RN People who hear voices or have delusions as part of a psychotic illness often don't believe they are sick. It's their harsh and frightening reality.

Consequently, helping them accept treatment can be challenging and confronting. This week Lynne Malcolm speaks with two brave men about their personal journeys to recovery after severe psychotic illness. We also hear from psychologist Xavier Amador, who has served as the forensic expert in high profile cases such as the Unabomber and the 12th 9/11 highjacker in the U.S.

All In The Mind

[ryan2006]

I have ten years of experience being put into mental health hospitals. I was actually taking art and psychology at the number five school in the nation when I started having a breakdown. So many things can trigger it. I had been living a pretty stressful life. Stress is a major cause I think perhaps I don't know the mind is so complicated philisophically, physics and the mind, socially experiencing, mind altering, chemical changinging, mood altering, debilitating, sun of a gun of a rotten way of thinking type of a problem.

 

Oh I didn't even notice the article that you had posted when I had posted my own. Sorry. Anyway I am open to talk about it.

[Michaelangelica]

Stress is a major cause I think perhaps I don't know the mind is so complicated philisophically, physics and the mind, socially experiencing, mind altering, chemical changinging, mood altering, debilitating, sun of a gun of a rotten way of thinking type of a problem.

yep it is Amazing that the electrical,short-circuiting chemical-soup, half-evolved, blob-of-convoluted-cholesterol works at all.

 

Stress is the cause of many woes of the body. I think mediation is one good way of helping to cope with it. (Not that i can do it;though i am getting better at it)

 

When I worked in psychiatric centres if you heard voices in your head you were nuts. now it seems that attitude is reversing. It just goes to show you that what is considered "madness' or 'sickness' is defined and enforced by the society you live in. If you heard voices in a Amazon Indian Tribe you would immediately be promoted to shaman..

 

I am reminded of one young psychiatrist I worked with. He had a middle aged woman who often saw visions of the Virgin Mary- mostly when she went to the loo. She would scream out of the loo excitedly telling her grown-up family about her wonderful vision. They would promptly drive her to the psychiatric hospital and admit her. This went on for many, many years until she met the aforementioned psychiatrist.

He explained to her that her family did not understand her visions and were frightened by them. He asked her to promise to tell no-one about them but to come to see him every month or so and tell only him about what she had seen that month. She agreed.

The family were amazed with the recovery of their mother. They praised the new young psychiatrist saying he was a genius; curing there mother when no one else could. They were very happy.

For all I know she is probably still telling her psychiatrist about her wonderful visions.

[ryan2006]

I went through many changes over the years. Brainwashed to believe I was mentally ill and to take medications? Shaman. Saint. eccentric. I believed many things to try and explain what I was hearing I would change belief systems when I learned something new about it or was persuaded or convinced to believe this was the case or that was the case. I took an objective approach not ruling anything out and now I am wondering if Joan of Arc new how to say "build a hospital" in English I am wondering if I am schizo paranoid schizo possessed by demons or if the Kennedy's somehow got in my body or if it is remote viewing. I wonder if it is subconcious. Stress related. I wonder if I am reincarnated. I have no dam idea, please exuse my language. Am I normal abnormal. Am I a criminal? What the heck do I have esp am I clairaudio I honestly do not know. And it drives me crazy all these theories. Did I see this stuff on television and somehow it manifested did my life experiences manifest it should I try and go off my medication and show the world that I can do this without any help. Do I need social security am I dependent should how do I get a job what do people think about me are they talking about me. Do they hate me? Why me? Why me? Well If I dug a ditch and lay it in is what it amounts to so I say pick up your guitar write something invent something draw something study something anything to keep your mind occupied and off the subject but it never goes away and it really is a curse.

[Michaelangelica]

I am wondering. .I am wondering if . . I wonder if . . I wonder if I am reincarnated. . .Am I normal abnormal. Am I . . W. .I honestly do not know. And it drives me crazy all these theories.

should I . . Do I . .what do people think about me are they talking about me. Do they hate me? Why me? Why me? . .it really is a curse.

How come you want a label?

There is no such thing as objective normal or abnormal. Your society defines this. At best it is a continuum.

 

What's all the wondering for? It does not seem to help.

Your mind sounds like you are scambling eggs. Calm down; focus; do some meditation. Find someone who can teach you how to do these things.

 

If you feel it is a curse, not a gift, and you if you are in pain; get help. Get yourself Physically checked out from head to toe . There may be some physical problem.

For example Google "Borna vius" and "cognitive allergy" Cognitive Impairment - ACAAI