Relativistic Rocket: The rest of the story...

[IDMclean]

I vote for Liquid enviroments myself. Then we can get near c without worrying to much about increased force due to acceleration.

[Jay-qu]

Generally, you would want to throttle down your engine to maintain a constant acceleration. It might get mighty uncomfortable for the passengers if the acceleration continued to increase as the voyage progressed.

well thats where we need cryogenics to pick up, then it wont matter how long or how fast we're accelerating

[TheFaithfulStone]

****.

 

Now I'm depressed. :lol:

 

Unless someone invents the wormhole. (Not gonna happen.)

Cryogenic freezing. (Not gonna happen)

Some kind of miracle anti-matter container. (Not gonna happen)

Or teleportation gates a-la Manifold:Space (Also not gonna happen.)

 

We're all freakin' doomed.

 

TFS

[IDMclean]

Like I said, Liquid enviroment. You spend your Acceleration time suspended in liquid. The ship can full burn and you won't feel a thing. It requires more fuel but, hey. who said traveling to a new part of the universe was easy or cheap?

 

Also, we haven't even left our own planet. We haven't REALLY started researching intrastellar travel, let alone interstellar. What we know is here on the ground and to a lesser degree up in the air. We have yet to truely explore that which is space and time.

[Jay-qu]

I still have faith that we will find some means of doing it, but KAK I disagree that the water solution would work.. how will that change anything

[IDMclean]

Even distribution of acceleration. You won't experience that many g's cause your supported by the liquid enviro.

 

It's like driving down the road at high speed with a fish tank versus a bird cage.

 

Assuming the fish tank is hardy and bolted in place and like wise for the bird in a cage. When you Accelerate quickly the bird will loose it's footing, fly back and hit the back of the cage. The fish will remain stationary relative to the truck. This is assuming the fish tank doesn't have room to slosh.

 

The ammount of g-force that you take is miniscule, because it is evenly distributed amongst you and the water/liquid.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Yeh, Clown, but that doesn't solve the larger problem that you need more mass than is visible in the universe to get your rocket moving that fast, and you need 10,000 suns to get your TIE fighter moving that fast.

 

TFS

[Jay-qu]

I dont know if you are entirely correct there clown.. what happens when you are in a pool? you sink because of gravity, since accelleration is the same, you want remain stationary relative to the ship.

[Boerseun]

I dont know if you are entirely correct there clown.. what happens when you are in a pool? you sink because of gravity, since accelleration is the same, you want remain stationary relative to the ship.

You'll just have to set your bouyancy, and then the water will become 'more dense' as you accelerate, to the same tune as you'll become 'heavier'. I fail to see the use, though - after a few light-years' worth of travel, you'll be all wrinkly an' stuff.:hyper:

[IDMclean]

I personally would think that water wouldn't be practical. The wrinklely things is fixable, it comes about from either hypo or hyper saliene solutions. I forget which.

 

I am not saying it would completely negate the effects of acceleration, only that it would significantly reduce them. accelerating up to 4 gs with gas enivro would be uncomfortable, I am not sure what the exact rate of diminishment is, but I don't think it would be anywhere near that with a liquid enviroment.

 

What is the tempature at the bottom of Lake Tahoe? 36* F. What is the tempature at the bottom of Lake Victoria? 36* F. Why is this? Static Equalibrium.

 

Sure you sink, but nowhere near as fast as you fall. Air resistance is nothing at high speeds. Viscous liquids? Much higher, more supportive. Expecially if you pressurize, which you would need to do.

[Jay-qu]

I dont see how it diminishes it, at all. Think about it, you have to accelerate with the ship, if the ship is going at 2g then you must go at 2g, period. It may seem dampened by spreading the force out over your entire body with water, but its still the same force. You dont need water to do it, you would just need your seats shaped right :hihi:

[CraigD]

I vote for Liquid enviroments myself. Then we can get near c without worrying to much about increased force due to acceleration.

I dont see how it diminishes it [the effects force due to acceleration], at all. Think about it, you have to accelerate with the ship, if the ship is going at 2g then you must go at 2g, period. It may seem dampened by spreading the force out over your entire body with water, but its still the same force. You dont need water to do it, you would just need your seats shaped right :hihi:

I think Jay-qu is correct – a well-cushioned couch is potentially as effective at protecting against high acceleration as suspension in liquid.

 

An advantage of liquid is that you’d have greater freedom of movement, both large movements of your body from place to place, and small movements of your arms and hands for such needs as manipulating controls. An obvious disadvantage is the need for some system to allow you to breath. Other disadvantages include health and comfort – human skin is healthiest in its natural air environment, and having all or part of your body underwater, as someone who’s done it can tell you, starts to feel uncomfortable after only a few hours. Many days might be maddening.

 

There’s been speculation about using fluids – water, jelly, etc – to allow humans to withstand high acceleration for at least half a century, likely more. In SF, there’s even been speculation about converting people into jelly to withstand high acceleration! (eg: One of my favorite novels, Piers Anthony’s 1970 Hugo award-nominated ”Macroscope”)

 

This interesting speculation is, however, diverting from the thread’s main topic – how can a spacecraft be designed with enough available impulse that too much acceleration is even a problem? If a ship has sufficient impulse, it can reach a respectable number of other star systems in a couple of tens of years or less accelerating at an optimally comfortable 9.8 m/s/s. The big problem is how to make a propulsion system that can provide nearly the total impulse needed for such performance, followed by how to protect a ship traveling at a significant fraction of lightspeed from super high energy collisions with interstellar gas debris.

[Jay-qu]

its not that far off topic, relativistic rockets will need to take such things into account if they are to save time by accelerating at decent rates. But I suppose that g is enough.. I could do some calcs, but its very early

[Boerseun]

Other disadvantages include health and comfort – human skin is healthiest in its natural air environment, and having all or part of your body underwater, as someone who’s done it can tell you, starts to feel uncomfortable after only a few hours. Many days might be maddening.

Actually, the human body is at its' healthiest not being hurtled at some ridiculous speed at a distant star! :hihi:

 

The whole idea is fundamentally unhealthy, so if we were to suspend ourselves in a bucket of snot to make the unhealthy situation at least slightly less uncomfortable, why not?

[IDMclean]

I am going to start a thread on this. Janus, I apologize for the side-track. So what are some other Propulsion types that we might use?