Global Warming Cause: People or Planetary Mechanics?

[Cedars]

Sorry Cedars, I missed that one.

 

The reference (3) at Wiki points to http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/hole/whyant.html#psc.

 

It appears that cold temperatures are a factor in the depletion of ozone. The ozone layer has been depleted over much of the globe, but it is most apparent over the antarctic.

 

uh oh... My unanswered question was rhetorical and I am not sure I have presented it here, but I am sure I discussed this issue with persons in real life. So, no need to think a question was overlooked here by you.... sorry.

 

But thanks for the link, it did help explain the process of ozone depletion in the Antarctic, I read it and began a search for more info and came up with a few things to clarify my question (and real doubts) about whether the condition of ozone depletion is adaquately addressed by the whole-scale assault on CFS.

 

I can find no demonstration of cfs reaching the antarctic airs. It is theorized, but not proven to have occured as far as I can find. I cannot find one example of PPM over x area, at xx levels (atmospheric heights) anywheres. There was an experiment by some British researchers (whos infomation I cannot find again) who tried to create this effect over several years and they could not get CFS even close to the stratsosphere. It would reach a certain point and just not go any higher. That said here is additional information which makes me doubt the ozone depletion is really due to the horrors of CFS.

 

This whole article is worth a read:

 

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/chemistry/laureates/1995/press.html

 

But this snippet really stuck out for me from the section, The ozone layer and the climate:

"Ozone, like carbon dioxide and methane, is a greenhouse gas that contributes to high temperatures at the surface of the earth. (CFC gases have a similar effect). Model calculations have shown that the climate is specially sensitive to changes in the ozone content in the lower layers, the troposphere. Here the ozone content has increased markedly* during the past century, chiefly because of the release of nitric oxide, carbon monoxide and gaseous hydrocarbons from vehicles and industrial processes and from the combustion of biomass in the tropics."

 

*then there are contrary info pieces which declare the opposite is occuring with ozone levels in the troposphere by other researchers

 

So now we have claims that the ozone content in the lower layers of the atmosphere have increased at the same time the CFS were being released into this same atmosphere, yet we are not seeing ozone floating up to replace the depleted ozone, unlike the really nasty CFS (mostly released in the northern hemisphere) which are allegedly taking over and mixing with antarctic airs to cause a depletion that is dooming mankind, and all other life on this planet.

 

Then there is this:

http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20010917arctictemps.html

I particularly like this:

"One theory is that greenhouse gases may be responsible for decreasing the number of long waves that enter the stratosphere, which then thins the ozone layer."

 

20 years of research and someone has concluded that long waves are decreasing. OK, so what are the other theories?

 

Personally, I had never heard of these long waves before. I googled it. Not much available:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22atmospheric+long+waves%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1

 

So I picked one. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/booty.weather/metinfo/rossby.htm

 

Well I clicked a couple, like this one,

http://www.amath.washington.edu/people/faculty/tung/publications.html

 

but I dont do PDF especially complicated math PDF, dialup and all....

 

Seems Long waves have more to do with the rotation of the earth and big things like what happens when wind hits mountains. Additionally, it is the presence of Long waves which warm the antarctic (according to the gsfc.nasa link). I look forward to reading more about how 'global warming' impacts the rotation of the earth (cuz I dont know how global warmists are going to prove long waves are reduced by warmer air), but I bet I will have to wait a while for that answer....

 

And I for one love the (I think they are called Chinook winds) which roar down the rocky mountains sometimes during the midst of winter, warming the air quite a bit (I think the record temp change occured in Montana as a 70 degree change in 6 hours). But this effect (warming) would also negate the impact of ozone depletion, being as warmer air runs contrary to the theory that it is the cold which provides the clouds which provide the host for the chemical reaction that destroys ozone and runs contrary to the idea that global warming would reduce long wave effectiveness in denying the ability of these cold air clouds to form.

 

So anyways, this is a part of why I have some doubts....

[truevoiceman]

The question is too cut and dry. One has to look at the possibility of both being a cause and just how much of both to determine what it is we can and can't do about it.