World War III

[Racoon]

I hope there can be some sort of peaceful resolution in the Middle East,

BUT the proverbial s* is hitting the fan! :eek2:

 

Israel is mobilizing their army into Lebanon in search and retrieval of their 2 kidnapped soldiers; who purportedly might be headed to Iran...

 

This doesn't look good.

Are those 2 soldiers going to be the assasinated duke Ferdinand of WW I ??

 

Is World War III on the horizon?

[Pyrotex]

I hope there can be some sort of peaceful resolution in the Middle East, BUT the proverbial s* is hitting the fan! :eek2: ...

It does look pretty grim.

I believe that if America had just left the Middle East alone, or dealt with the parties in a balanced impartial way, they probably would have settled their differences by now. But America has been dumping a metric ton of money and guns into Israel for decades, and overlooking the very kind of behavior we condemn in the Palestinians.

Personally, I think both sides down there need a good paddling.

Let us hope that if there IS a major war, that both sides get hammered enough to make them flinch at the very thought of doing it again.

[TheFaithfulStone]

both sides get hammered enough to make them flinch at the very thought of doing it again.

 

Unfortunately, that's not the way it normally goes when you tweak the Israelis. Generally, the Arabs get hammered and then start bombing random civilians.

 

I'm not generally an Israeli backer, but in this case, I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Hezbollah and Hamas. My hope is that Israel doesn't confuse Hezbollah with the considerably more moderate Lebanese government, and that the Lebanese government finally does something about all the damn terrorists they're tacitly supporting.

 

TFS

[Freddy]

If 30% of the world's oil production did not come from the Mideast few would care about whether they find peace. I for one am so tired of hearing about the Arab/Israeli mess that has been going on for almost a century. Make peace or die!

[DarkColoredLight]

Make peace or die!

 

Just don't drag me into the equation.

 

needs to go to college, quick,

DCL

[paigetheoracle]

Not the spark for WWIII but it means poor old Lebanon will get plastered again. Left in peace things grow naturally from the inside-out. Attacked from the outside, they collapse outside-in. Yes, without the oil thing nobody would care less about the arab world. As for rights and wrongs - take away the religious attitude of divine right and reduce the situation to a scientific basis i.e. good is creation, evil (sin = error) is destruction - it stops being biased and becomes obvious that whoever starts a fight and whoever carries it on is in the wrong. The ordinary people suffer as always because all they want to do is just get on with their lives, not have the legs blown off or their children killed. Idealists are not realists - dead people (suicide bombers) don't want to be here and to be alive is to be here and living an ordinary life: The cult of personality is just as alive in the East as it is in the West but celebrity isn't on film but in martyrdom. Tolerance and forebearance allows life to continue - death is the easy way out (not here = no 'response-ability' i.e. ability to change things for the better, which takes hard work (nose to the grindstone, not bullet up the nose). Laziness of mind (ignorance) is equal to laziness of body (dead beat or beat dead).:naughty: :doh: :shrug:

[Racoon]

What are you jabbering about??

 

We're talking tactical military conflict; Tanks, rockets and mortars. People dead or with limbs blown off.

Arab countries Hate Israel ---- Israel has to defend itself.

 

If you haven't read the latest news, somone can post it here; or I will.

[Queso]

Yeah beiruit just got F***ed up...

 

((again))

[pgrmdave]

I don't think it could turn into WWIII. That would need to involve more modernized countries. Now, if parts of Europe start to back Palestine and Lebanon, and the US backs Israel...

 

I'd be more worried about N.Korea and China right now.

[Boerseun]

Doubtful.

 

The current 'crisis' in the Middle East is just the latest in an endless list of similar 'crises'. This has been going on for the best part of the last century, and, I suspect, ever since ole' Abraham hisself.

 

I kinda agree with the previous post that said "Make peace or die". I am so fed up with this crap. Kill each other, or do what you have to do. I simply don't care about the Middle East. Both parties (Israel & the Arab World) are equally good and equally bad depending on which comparison you use. They should just be careful that the rest of the world don't get desensitized by the continuous conflict that eventually nobody'll care.

[TheFaithfulStone]

As horrible as it sounds, maybe it would be better to just let them slug it out. All the really aggressive, fanatical ones would kill each other off, and only the tolerant and peaceful would be left.

 

Or maybe that's a little too Larry Niven.

 

TFS

[DarkColoredLight]

As horrible as it sounds, maybe it would be better to just let them slug it out. All the really aggressive, fanatical ones would kill each other off, and only the tolerant and peaceful would be left.

 

Or maybe that's a little too Larry Niven.

 

TFS

 

In the grand scheme of things that would be nice. Except there's going to be a winner, rather a not loser. Who will certainly think that because of their modern day elite not dieing, makes them a good leader. These not losers can be represented by WWII's "axis/evil." One of which will destroy the other, whole or in part. Leaving the civilians of the "axis/evil" and the victims; who wanted to see both sides die in the first place, to clean up and/or live in the new tainted-with-smoke/chemicals/radiation/and the-whole-spectrum-of-wonderful-things-that-come-from-war world. The civilians will most likely have to clean up the mess, because these "good leader" I mentioned earlier will, if they haven't already, make a plan to have their will be done. Much like their will of destorying the "threat" to their society. Let's hope and see if I'm wrong.

 

Can't we all just ... get along?,

DCL :lol:

[cwes99_03]

Interesting since I was recently thinking the same things.

 

The reason why it may turn into a worldwide struggle/ war. OIL PRICES HAVE CROSSED OVER $78 /BARREL.

 

Every nation in the world including the US which produces nearly 50% of what it uses annually (very rough figure there that needs to be checked but I've heard it quoted by more knowledgable people than myself.) is going to be greatly interested in resolving this as quickly as possible.

 

The G8 are meeting and discussing this right now. Bush is backing the Isrealis (if he didn't he wouldn't be sticking to his own guns about being against terrorism) others such as France and Germany are calling out Isreal for its attacks. Russia and China are already involved with Iran who back Syria who in turn backs Lebanese guerrila groups like Hizbollah. GB backs the US along with a multinational force including Japan and Australia. US is allies with Saudia Arabia who has backing from Egypt (though how strongly is anyone's guess.)

 

Back during WWII, Japan joined Germany and Italy only because it thought that it too would be able to take influential control of a large portion of the Pacific. Germany and Italy likewise needed support from Japan force America into a two sided war (they knew the US would eventually have to intervene with U-boats patrolling the Atlantic.) The US had to get involved because of its economic interests in Europe and then in the Pacific being directly attacked.

 

Now you have Japan taking sides with the US because with US help it may finally get someone to do something about North Korea, and with enough backing from other nations who have interests of their own the US may finally get something done on Iran (Bush's viewpoint not mine, I'm apolitical.) You also have Russia backing Iran and possibly Korth Korea because let's face it, they have a whole lot of arms sales to these two coutries (France is in the same boat.)

 

WWII was just waiting to happen and the assassination was the match. Now we have been talking about NK and Iran for 3-4 years and these two kidnappings of Isreali soldiers (the first kid and now these two more) are possibly the match.

[sebbysteiny]

I believe that if America had just left the Middle East alone, or dealt with the parties in a balanced impartial way, they probably would have settled their differences by now. But America has been dumping a metric ton of money and guns into Israel for decades, and overlooking the very kind of behavior we condemn in the Palestinians.

 

Erm, America has also been throwing a ton of money into: the Palestinian territories; Egypt; Jordan; Kuwait; Saudi Arabia. So what's your point, that America rewards nations that respect democracy and human rights?

 

Also, in a previous thread, we discussed 'Collateral damage: self defence or war crime'. In it, we all agreed that the actions taken to defend ones civilians even if they cause suffering to enemy civilians are 100% justified. It's called the right of self defence, which, as we agreed, extends to the military option that causes least harm to civilians THAT IS ALSO effective at achieving the military objective of stopping aggression. This covers almost all actions Israel has ever performed and more. It does not cover almost all Palestinian 'terror' attacks because they are neither effective nor necessary. Unless of course you can think of an alternative way for Israel to get their soldiers back without creating an even greater security threat?

[sebbysteiny]

WWII was just waiting to happen and the assassination was the match. Now we have been talking about NK and Iran for 3-4 years and these two kidnappings of Isreali soldiers (the first kid and now these two more) are possibly the match.

 

Sorry, but your theory, which was a good read, is highly dubious. In WW1 there were major military pacts formed. However today, nobody wants another WW. Russia etc may have an incentive to remain chummy with the 'axis of evil', but I doubt Russia will commit millions of men to cirtain death taking on a nuclear superpower with stealth bombers for them.

[Cedars]

As horrible as it sounds, maybe it would be better to just let them slug it out. All the really aggressive, fanatical ones would kill each other off, and only the tolerant and peaceful would be left.

 

Or maybe that's a little too Larry Niven.

 

TFS

 

While not condoning this action, I think some third party would then have to go in and take out the winner. I dont think the winner would be the tolerant/peaceful types, just less of them.

 

Then maybe it would work.

 

* * * * * * * * *

 

We intend to remain alive. Our neighbors want to see us dead. This is not a question that leaves much room for compromise. - Golda Meir

[DarkColoredLight]

Also, in a previous thread, we discussed 'Collateral damage: self defence or war crime'. In it, we all agreed that the actions taken to defend ones civilians even if they cause suffering to enemy civilians are 100% justified.

 

Hold up, so killing innocent people because there's a threat on your innocent people is justified? So then, killing yourself and taking with you members of a different culture that is a threat to your culture is not justified?

 

I tend to believe that war crimes can be considered self defence and vis versa. Depending on the perspective, justifications, and availible means. If the justifications and means are not to be understood, it's a war crime. If the justifications and means are to be understood it's self defense.

 

I might want to read through the thread you mentioned. So if you could supply me a link to the discussion so I can read what you read, it would be appreciated.

 

 

probably have to edit this,

DCL