Hezbollah,Iran,uranium.

[Edella]

Eight Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed and two others were kidnapped in a series of Hezbollah assaults on the northern border yesterday. Another five soldiers and five civilians were wounded in the attacks.Hezbollah commandos crossed into Israel on the same day that Iran was supposed to give its answer to the package of incentives that the five permanent Security Council members plus Germany offered to Iran if it will suspend uranium enrichment.This doesn't seem like coincidence to me,but what could Iran gain from such a move?

[InfiniteNow]

My take:

They (Iranian officials) think it's all a bluff, and are forcing the security council to show their hand.

[sebbysteiny]

Hezbollah commandos crossed into Israel on the same day that Iran was supposed to give its answer to the package of incentives that the five permanent Security Council members plus Germany offered to Iran if it will suspend uranium enrichment.This doesn't seem like coincidence to me,but what could Iran gain from such a move?

 

Your are absolutely right. This is no coincidence.

 

What could Iran gain? Howabout taking its nuclear violations off the G8 agenda making international consensus on the issue all but impossible and premptively blocking all other diplomatic actions against Iran? Unfortunately, Israel has played into Iran's hands, but what else could it do? It does have a fundamental responsibility to protect the lives of each and every Israeli citizen.

[hallenrm]

Looking at it as an outsider, I think, the wise would have seen this coming. There comes a stage when the exploited and the weak, flexes its muscles, only because it has no other choice, if it wants dignity and freedom that is not forthcoming to it, because the powerful strongly believes that the status quo will continue forever.

[sebbysteiny]

Looking at it as an outsider, I think, the wise would have seen this coming. There comes a stage when the exploited and the weak, flexes its muscles, only because it has no other choice, if it wants dignity and freedom that is not forthcoming to it, because the powerful strongly believes that the status quo will continue forever.

Interesting idea, but somewhat strange. I assume the 'strong' is Israel and the 'weak' is Hezbullah / Iran / Syria. Israel had withdrawn from all occupied lebanon and has been declared by the UN to have fullfilled all international obligations and agreements regarding the Lebanon. So what exactly did Hizbullah have to feel they lacked 'dignity' or 'freedom' about?

[hallenrm]

May be memories of the days past when they were suppressed, they are enjoying their freedom and power, just like a noveoue rich, who had been exposed to hardship and poverty for a long time. :hyper:

[sebbysteiny]

May be memories of the days past when they were suppressed, they are enjoying their freedom and power, just like a noveoue rich, who had been exposed to hardship and poverty for a long time.

 

Nice post. It is almost certainly the worst explanation for the cause of Islamic terror I have ever heard. :hyper:

[InfiniteNow]

Nice post. It is almost certainly the worst explanation for the cause of Islamic terror I have ever heard. :lol:

Sebby,

 

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Cheers. :)

[TheFaithfulStone]

but what could Iran gain from such a move?

 

<snap, snap> Watch this hand, this one right here! No, not that one, this one! Look here! <snap, snap> Right over here, look here!

 

<other hand behind back flicks the switch on the centrifuge>

 

TFS

[Mercedes Benzene]

<other hand behind back flicks the switch on the centrifuge>

:) :lol:

 

Yup yup.

Have you noticed how the American news agencies have shone the spotlight exclusively on the Israeli-Lebanon crisis?

 

That leaves Iran free to jump-start their nuclear ambitions out of the world's eye.

I do not remember the last time I saw (or heard) a news report on the "Iranian Nuclear Crisis".

It's easy to see why Iran so strongly supports Hezbollah and their efforts.

[sebbysteiny]

Nice post. It is almost certainly the worst explanation for the cause of Islamic terror I have ever heard.

 

Sebby,

 

If you dislike someone's post, clarify exactly why, PM them, or neg rep with adequate explanation. Comments like this one are not in line with the rules of this site and could result in further action if they continue. PM me if you have any questions about this request.

 

Perhaps better words might have been 'by far the strangest'. But 'worst' + ':)' = strange. :eek2:.

 

I've heard a lot of theories for Islamic terror in my time. Never before have I heard one saying that memories of feelings and oppressions past combined with being 'noveoue rich' regarding freedom created a desire on the part of Islamic terrorists to kill innocents. It makes no sense. For one thing, memories of resolved issues do not have the power to emotionally compell people into killing. And that is ignoring the idea that a developing society is somehow a good environment to build a desire to kill innocents.

[hallenrm]

Perhaps better words might have been 'by far the strangest'. But 'worst' + ':)' = strange. :eek2:.

 

I've heard a lot of theories for Islamic terror in my time. Never before have I heard one saying that memories of feelings and oppressions past combined with being 'noveoue rich' regarding freedom created a desire on the part of Islamic terrorists to kill innocents. It makes no sense. For one thing, memories of resolved issues do not have the power to emotionally compell people into killing. And that is ignoring the idea that a developing society is somehow a good environment to build a desire to kill innocents.

 

Perhaps you are not aware of the history of indo-pak conflict, else you would not be of the same opinion. Anyway ignorance is pardonable. The root of the indo-pak conflict and the present terrorist acts we have witnessed in India, all have roots in memories of resolved issues , and they do compel rather instigate into killing.

 

Anyway it is not your fault if you never knew it, it is the fault of the education system that produces immature youngsters like you.

[sebbysteiny]

Anyway ignorance is pardonable. The root of the indo-pak conflict and the present terrorist acts we have witnessed in India, all have roots in memories of resolved issues , and they do compel rather instigate into killing.

I'd hardly talk about Kashmir as a 'resolved issue'. Besides, I don't think 'issues' have anything to do with it. We should continue this in my thread: Islamic terror: the solution.'

[hallenrm]

I'd hardly talk about Kashmir as a 'resolved issue'. Besides, I don't think 'issues' have anything to do with it. We should continue this in my thread: Islamic terror: the solution.'

Since when were threads in Hypography the personal property of the member who initiates it?

[Rebiu]

Thank you for responding to my post

I'd be hesitant to gauge either of those situations a "defeat" just yet.

In respect for your decorum and even tone, I will try to treat your post with the same respect you are showing me in spite of the intensity of my feelings on this matter.

 

Israel's execution of it's conflict with Hezbollah left something to be desired

I agree.

- but it's difficult to gauge it a military defeat.

The military is a tool of the body politic and ultimately the people. I find it is unrealistic to suggest that whether a "military defeat" has occurred has any useful connotation given the asymmetric nature of the conflict.

As a public relations battle, Hezbollah may have been the clear winner, but from a "killing people and breaking things" stand point, it's tough to judge it that way.

The goal of a conflict is not to kill and break things, these are means to the end.

 

Similarly in Iraq - we've accomplished SOME,

What has been accomplished in Iraq? These accomplishments are lies and illusions perpetrated by the Bushies. The "free and fairly elected" government is as fractured and powerless as the rest of the country. The oil does not flow. The economy is in tatters, fuel prices are impossible high. There are no functioning Iraqi military units. People are being shot by men in police uniforms. What are these accomplishments you speak of?

we just haven't accomplished ALL in a timely or effective manner.

What do you think will be accomplished and when? How long is to long. If it takes 50 years should we "stay the course" how much money is it worth?

 

Yes, Iraq is a big, putrid mess right now, and yes, it's largely our fault, but I don't think the situation is utterly unsalvageable.

I agree. The first thing that must happen is the impeachment of Bush and prosecution of his entire administration. Iraq must then be partitioned into three separate countries. This may qualify as salvage it certainly will not have been worth the war.

 

In any case the point being that "defeat" and "haven't won yet" are not the same thing, especially when the conditions for victory are as murky as they are in the War on Terror.

What the hell does Iraq have to do with the "War on Terror"? You still believe that nonsense?

 

TFS

[damn, I sound like a regular Republican don't I?]

Worse, you sound like the far right 33% anti gay, anti abortion, pro gun, pro military, rapture groupies hoping Bush can bring on the end times before the end of his term.

[Rebiu]

Since when were threads in Hypography the personal property of the member who initiates it?

The term my thread does not necessarily denote ownership. For example I do not own my family, my race, my church, my country or my mother. You imperious and condescending tone is a detriment to this post and makes you sound like the "immature youngster".

[Rebiu]

Eight Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed and two others were kidnapped in a series of Hezbollah assaults on the northern border yesterday. Another five soldiers and five civilians were wounded in the attacks.Hezbollah commandos crossed into Israel on the same day that Iran was supposed to give its answer to the package of incentives that the five permanent Security Council members plus Germany offered to Iran if it will suspend uranium enrichment.This doesn't seem like coincidence to me,but what could Iran gain from such a move?

The attacks on Israel occur all the time. This time Israel reacted differently. You noticed that they were willing to submit to a cease-fire even though they did not have the kidnapped soldiers they said they would get back. This suggests that the particular attack by Hezbollah was not the real trigger for the Israeli invasion.

 

Perhaps you have not heard this theory yet. When the Bush administration goes after Iran it is believed that Hezbollah will retaliate by stepping up their attacks on Israel. This was a preemptive move planned by the US and executed by the IDF to crush Hezbollah before the US attack on Iran.

 

This action may have been a test run for the technology, strategy and tactics to be used by the USA against a force that most likely is very similar to the one that will be faced in Iran.

 

If we consider this perspective the question must then be what has the US gained by the timing of this escalation?

 

Given this administrations refusal to look at evidence contrary to their prophecies I would suggest that Israelis defeat at the hands of Hezbollah has gained the US nothing. Just as our defeat in Iraq has gained us nothing.