Independent Mind

[coberst]

Independent Mind

 

 

“Joseph Schwab said in 1962 that science is most commonly taught as a ”rhetoric of conclusions." He developed sophisticated arguments for teaching science as "enquiry."

 

An independent mind is one that is grounded in ‘enquiry’. Enquiry demands the ability to develop significant questions and the ability to utilize good judgment while separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

John Dewey, a great philosopher, psychologist, and pedagogy discussed the discrepancy between the skills valued in adults and the skills taught to children in schools. Dewey lamented the fact that independent thinking skills were demanded of adults but our children were being taught the converse in our schools.

 

My grade school, high school and college education convinces me that Dewey is accurate. I am a retired engineer and my contact with the sciences of physics, mathematics, chemistry, and engineering were completely an experience that was algorithmic (a step-by-step procedure for solving problems) in nature. Later I took courses in the humanities and these were more of a historic enquiry into who thought what and why they thought it at the time that they did so.

 

In my opinion the natural sciences do not prepare an individual to become an independent mind whereas the humanities do a better job of that. Does your schooling lead you to agree with me and Dewey?

 

Quotes from http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3667/is_200101/ai_n8934732.

[InfiniteNow]

Personally, I sense that it has less to do with the school in which your diploma is awarded or the type of course in which you are enrolled, and more to do with your interaction with the instructor, the amalgom of both your backgrounds and experiences, as well as interests.

[coberst]

Personally, I sense that it has less to do with the school in which your diploma is awarded or the type of course in which you are enrolled, and more to do with your interaction with the instructor, the amalgom of both your backgrounds and experiences, as well as interests.

 

I would assume that for most of us we would find that we all have on average the same kind of teachers. Some of our teachers are good some are bad. If we quantified all of them and averaged the numbers I suspect there would be little difference overall in the quality of our teachers.

[InfiniteNow]

Some of our teachers are good some are bad. If we quantified all of them and averaged the numbers I suspect there would be little difference overall in the quality of our teachers.

This is quite an intriguing point. While statitistically speaking, of course there would be some bell in that curve, but on a personal level, I know that most of us have been impacted by a special teacher or have had a significant perspective shift as a result of the quality of interaction with one of them. Are you proposing that this is not the case?

[pgrmdave]

I think he means something different - that every student receives, on average, the same quality of teaching throughout his or her career - that most of us have a few great teachers, a few lousy teachers, and many average teachers.

[InfiniteNow]

The thing is, I disagree with that point as well. Some individuals are lucky enough to have all great teachers, or perhaps can afford a better school where the teachers are all top notch. At the opposite end of that spectrum are the unfortunate ones who have awful, noncaring, uninformed, biased teachers...

 

To further my line of thinking, it's not all teachers or teaching method that dictate the ability of one's mind or thinking processes. There are individual differences, genetic dispositions, social context, nutrition, exercise, amount of sleep, and vast other possibilities which all come together to lead someone toward or away from an independent mind.

[Turtle]

Independent Mind

 

An independent mind is one that is grounded in ‘enquiry’. Enquiry demands the ability to develop significant questions and the ability to utilize good judgment while separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

While the characterization of the situation sounds well founded, I question the conclusion of the possibility of teaching people to have enquiring minds. More or less as useless as trying to teach common sense.

Maybe require 'study skills' courses.:confused:

[coberst]

My main point that I would like to accentuate is that our student days have prepared us to get a job but has not prepared us to be adult learners. Schooling has not prepared us to be independent self-learning adults.

 

The world badly needs adults who can face reality with the ability to reason in a way that they have not generally been taught to do. The great thing that is missing in our culture is adult learners with the ability to formulate questions and to find the answers to the questions formulated.

 

Adults have closed down their minds to learning when their schooling ended. I do not propose that adults go back to some kind of school I am proposing that adults take up the role of teacher and pupil. I am proposing that adults open up their minds to the fact that the world can no longer afford for us to ignore our intellectual responsibilities.

[hallenrm]

Thanks Coberst for initiating a thread on a topic close to my heart!

 

I have given some serious thought to this issue at several occassions and I have concluded, thus far, that education is a long drawn process, that involves the student the teacher and the enviornment. It is a communication process and at any moment of time its consequences depend on the state of mind of the student and teacher and the state of the society.

 

The states of minds of each student in a class are seldom similar to one another, because each one of them has/had different past experiences, so even when a teacher a teaching the same lesson to all of them they receive it differently. Some assimiliate it wonderfully and some do not. Even the way a teacher, howsoever, good or bad s/he may be, changes with time as does the social conditions.

 

What then is the solution that each individual recieves the appropriate education?

In my opinion there is no perfect solution, each person learns at various stages of life, as and when need arises. It is the society that can ensure that the need to learn arises much more often!

 

How can it do that? Well some other time:) :)

[Eclogite]

The responsibility to provide an educational infra-structure lies with society.

 

The responsibility to teach lies with the teacher.

 

The responsibility to learn lies with the student.

 

The finest teachers, installed in the perfect insitution, with every available resource, will be unable to teach a student who is unprepared to learn.

 

 

My experience suggests that the route to independent thinking is provided and exemplified, but the student has to make the decision to take it.

[coberst]

Hallenrm says “What then is the solution that each individual recieves the appropriate education?

In my opinion there is no perfect solution, each person learns at various stages of life, as and when need arises. It is the society that can ensure that the need to learn arises much more often!”

 

 

I am not a teacher but I have thought much about education, learning, and self-learning. My interest is primarily with self-actualizing learning by adults after their school days are over.

 

I think that one of the best things that our (USA) educational system has done is they have begun to teach pupils how to think. We have generally been satisfied with teaching youngsters what to think but apparently we have discovered that such knowledge is insufficient for our future in a high tech society. Our schools and colleges have begun teaching CT (Critical Thinking) and this represents a revolutionary course for education.

 

This is also a good beginning for adult education after schooling is complete. The self-actualizing learner needs the fundamental knowledge provided by CT in order to learn how to learn as an independent learner after school days are over and self-learning begins.

[coberst]

The responsibility to provide an educational infra-structure lies with society.

 

The responsibility to teach lies with the teacher.

 

The responsibility to learn lies with the student.

 

The finest teachers, installed in the perfect insitution, with every available resource, will be unable to teach a student who is unprepared to learn.

 

 

My experience suggests that the route to independent thinking is provided and exemplified, but the student has to make the decision to take it.

 

I have tried to imagine a means whereby a society such as ours could essential “have its cake and eat it too”. How to maintain an educational system designed to produce hard workers and voracious consumers while finding a way to combat the shortcomings of such a society.

 

The way to do that is to utilize a gigantic untapped resource. The untapped source is the adults who have, upon graduation from the schools, packed their intellects in a trunk in the attic. If we can convince the adult population that the end of schooling can be the beginning of a process of self-actualizing learning that will open a new and wonderful world to the individual while serving our community needs.

 

If or adult population came to recognize the “ecstasy of understanding”--as Carl Sagan is reported to have said—then our adult population could form very quickly an intellectual force to thwart this decline of understanding that will probably eventual lead to disaster.

[hallenrm]

The way to do that is to utilize a gigantic untapped resource. The untapped source is the adults who have, upon graduation from the schools, packed their intellects in a trunk in the attic. If we can convince the adult population that the end of schooling can be the beginning of a process of self-actualizing learning that will open a new and wonderful world to the individual while serving our community needs.

 

My experience with teachers and students tells that adults who have, upon graduation from the schools, packed their intellects in a trunk in the attic can seldom prove to be good teachers. Teaching is an art, just like music or painting. Not everybody who has used a musical instrument can become a musician, just as every child that has learnt painting at school does not become a painter.

 

To be a good teacher , above all requires dedication and love for children and knowledge. Those who tend to pack their intellect in attic, cannot be assumed to love knowledge.

 

The thought to be able to convince the adult population that the end of schooling can be the beginning of a process of self-actualizing learning that will open a new and wonderful world to the individual while serving our community needs, is grossly idealistic and impractical to say the least.

[pgrmdave]

I think that one of the best things that our (USA) educational system has done is they have begun to teach pupils how to think.

 

I don't know what school systems you've studied, but having just gotten out of high school a few years ago, and with friends still in it, I can tell you that critical thinking is not taught, unless you're in the top 25%. With all the testing that we need to take (PSAT, SAT, AP, HSPA...) we are taught very much with the tests in mind. The AP tests tend to be okay, because they tend to challenge you to think anyway, but the rest of them... It is entirely possible to graduate from high school without doing anything but regurgitating information.

[coberst]

Hal..says--"The thought to be able to convince the adult population that the end of schooling can be the beginning of a process of self-actualizing learning that will open a new and wonderful world to the individual while serving our community needs, is grossly idealistic and impractical to say the least. "

 

I am afraid you might be correct. However, I think that one might have said the same thing about the no smoking effort when it began a few decades ago. One must keep trying no matter the odds.

[coberst]

I don't know what school systems you've studied, but having just gotten out of high school a few years ago, and with friends still in it, I can tell you that critical thinking is not taught, unless you're in the top 25%. With all the testing that we need to take (PSAT, SAT, AP, HSPA...) we are taught very much with the tests in mind. The AP tests tend to be okay, because they tend to challenge you to think anyway, but the rest of them... It is entirely possible to graduate from high school without doing anything but regurgitating information.

 

I guess that teaching CT will be a long time coming. I hope it continues.

[Turtle]

Teaching "independent mind" as you suggest is like teaching a pig to sing; not only does it not work, it irritates the pig.:Whistle: