Greetings

[shadow]

Hello everyone,

 

How's everyone doing? Alright, I hope.

 

I'm fine too. See you all later.

 

Thank you,

 

shadow

[ronthepon]

Hello there! Welcome to hypography.

[IDMclean]

Hmmm, perhaps I should introduce you to DarkColouredLight, or DarkMind, I think you might find them interesting.

 

Anyway, Welcome to the Carnival, may the sights that you see be spectatular.

 

-Foolish is as foolish does.

KickAssClown

[shadow]

Ron and Clown(?),

 

Thank you for your welcome.

 

Yes, I wonder about DarkcoloredLight. I used to be Darklight in another forum.

 

I'll see you guys later.

 

shadow

[Michaelangelica]

Hello everyone,

 

How's everyone doing? Alright, I hope.

 

I'm fine too. See you all later.

 

Thank you,

 

shadow

Hi & welcome.

 

I am new here too.

 

I have found it a nice community

 

You will find the people here helpful, caring, considerate and knowledgeable.

 

Do you have a special area of interest?

 

What country are you from?

[shadow]

Michaelangelica]Hi & welcome.

 

I am new here too.

 

I have found it a nice community

 

You will find the people here helpful, caring, considerate and knowledgeable.

 

Do you have a special area of interest?

 

What country are you from

?

 

Hello Michaelangelica,

 

Thank you for your welcome.

 

I'm sorry I hadn't acknowledged it. I hadn't stopped by my mailbox lately.

 

I'm from the U.S.A. Special area of interest? I don't know. A little bit of everything, I guess. When I was young I wanted to be a psychologist so that I could be close to the study of parapsychology. I didn't get half way towards getting my degree but did get close enough to the area of parapsychology,or spirituality eventually. I have some friends 'on the other side'.

I paint and draw when I can.

 

thanks again,

 

shadow

[Michaelangelica]

Hello Michaelangelica,

 

Thank you for your welcome.

 

I'm sorry I hadn't acknowledged it. I hadn't stopped by my mailbox lately.

 

I'm from the U.S.A. Special area of interest? I don't know. A little bit of everything, I guess. When I was young I wanted to be a psychologist so that I could be close to the study of parapsychology. I didn't get half way towards getting my degree but did get close enough to the area of parapsychology,or spirituality eventually. I have some friends 'on the other side'.

I paint and draw when I can.

 

thanks again,

 

shadow

 

 

I had a psychology lecturer who said

"Psychologists believe in scientifically proven theories

Right?"

 

Right

 

"Something, for argument sake, we will call parapsychology has been shown to exist in scientific, psychology experiments."

(We just had to believe him on this)

"Over 99% of psychologists do not believe in parapsychology

Why"

 

I often think about that question. It is THE one that has stuck with me.

 

I'm an agnostic/atheist myself

[shadow]

I had a psychology lecturer who said

"Psychologists believe in scientifically proven theories

Right?"

 

Right

 

"Something, for argument sake, we will call parapsychology has been shown to exist in scientific, psychology experiments."

(We just had to believe him on this)

"Over 99% of psychologists do not believe in parapsychology

Why"

I often think about that question. It is THE one that has stuck with me.

I'm an agnostic/atheist myself

 

Dear Michaelangelica,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

You mean about why most psychologists don't believe in parapsychology?

 

I thought psychologists were more open to the possibility of 'outside' forces influencing our thought processes--telepathy,etc. After all, the study of the mind shouldn't be limited to what goes on in the brain only.

 

Thanks for your feedback. I am not an atheist,but I am not a religious fanatic,either. My first teacher from the 'other side' is/was an old Indian guru. He was quite well known before he left this mortal world. Why he befriended me when I wasn't even that religious is kinda strange,actually. He's very much alive ,though. Although not in this dimension. He's not a wandering spirit, either. He's a spritual guide and does know his way around on the other side. And that's putting it mildly.

 

Thanks again,

 

shadow

[Michaelangelica]

Dear Michaelangelica,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

You mean about why most psychologists don't believe in parapsychology?

 

I thought psychologists were more open to the possibility of 'outside' forces influencing our thought processes--telepathy,etc. After all, the study of the mind shouldn't be limited to what goes on in the brain only.

 

Thanks for your feedback. I am not an atheist,but I am not a religious fanatic,either. My first teacher from the 'other side' is/was an old Indian guru. He was quite well known before he left this mortal world. Why he befriended me when I wasn't even that religious is kinda strange,actually. He's very much alive ,though. Although not in this dimension. He's not a wandering spirit, either. He's a spritual guide and does know his way around on the other side. And that's putting it mildly.

 

Thanks again,

 

shadow

 

You seem very lucky to have such an experience

 

Yes; despite evidence to the contrary; most psychologists do not believe in parapsychology.

So it begs the question "What is science?"

[shadow]

You seem very lucky to have such an experience

 

Yes; despite evidence to the contrary; most psychologists do not believe in parapsychology.

So it begs the question "What is science?"

 

I don't know if it was luck or maybe it was fate because now looking back there seem to be too many 'coincidences' surrounding our association through the years.

 

Shortly after he(the swami) befriended me, he was joined by an older brother my family had 'lost' back in 1968. And while I had already started believing in an afterlife since the mid seventies it was a great joy to be 'reunited' with him after so many years. It is a strange feeling, knowing that they are not in this world, and yet knowing that they are very conscious and aware of what is going on not only in their world but in ours. They were my first two teachers,like a team sort of, before I was fortunate enough to 'meet' others.

 

I don't know if it's coincidental or not,but they share the same birthdate,years apart.

 

"So it begs the question, what is science?"

 

I think science is limited in its grasp of many things. Things, that if they are not conforming to reason cannot be accepted as 'rational'. Intangibles are not usually accepted as real. There are many things that one cannot put a finger on and yet they 'exist'. Science can observe and 'rationalize' the causes and effects of lust,for example,but I don't think any scientist can yet 'measure' or explain the occurence or existence ,for lack of a better word, of love. It is something that can be very powerful and yet almost impossible to describe in 'scientific' terms,if one were to even try. It is there,but where? And why? We know why lust can present itself when it does,but love? Certainly, it is not made up of atoms or molecules. So, that brings up the subject of ethereal manifestations,which science cannot touch,even if it wanted.

 

I respect all the physical sciences, and do enjoy some of them,but my inclinations have always been towards the metaphysical side of life,for we are not mere physical entities. We are more than that.

 

And yes, there is an afterlife,or hereafter, whether anyone wants to go there or not. Just don't start asking for God once you get there. It's not like once you get there, you will see Him. He's still farther beyond.

 

Thank you for your time, Michaelangelica.

 

shadow

[Boerseun]

Shortly after he(the swami) befriended me, he was joined by an older brother my family had 'lost' back in 1968. And while I had already started believing in an afterlife since the mid seventies it was a great joy to be 'reunited' with him after so many years.

Go to www.randi.org - you're sitting on a potential winning ticket here.

"So it begs the question, what is science?"

Science is a method. This method is clearly defined as the steps needed to be taken in order to prove theories about anything you'd care to mention that might be predictable, repeatable, falsifiable etc. And, of course, thrown into the mix should be a good dose of skepticism to separate fancy from fact. There is no need for rhetorical questions like "what is science" when the method is well understood.

I think science is limited in its grasp of many things. Things, that if they are not conforming to reason cannot be accepted as 'rational'. Intangibles are not usually accepted as real. There are many things that one cannot put a finger on and yet they 'exist'.

The quantum world might be a good example of this. Yet, it's science.

Science can observe and 'rationalize' the causes and effects of lust,for example,but I don't think any scientist can yet 'measure' or explain the occurence or existence ,for lack of a better word, of love. It is something that can be very powerful and yet almost impossible to describe in 'scientific' terms,if one were to even try. It is there,but where? And why?

Lust, and such unsavoury things like rape can be justified and understood in very basic Darwinistic evolutionary terms. Love, on the other hand, can be explained as familiarity and social connectedness. There's nothing mythical or mystical about 'love' in cold scientific terms, but you might not like it.

So, that brings up the subject of ethereal manifestations,which science cannot touch,even if it wanted.

Not really. Read my previous line.

I respect all the physical sciences, and do enjoy some of them,but my inclinations have always been towards the metaphysical side of life,for we are not mere physical entities. We are more than that.

Well, shadow, I respect every new member's explaining of their viewpoint in the introductions forum, but you should keep in mind that the metaphysical is called such because it falls outside the realm of science. So, too, does pseudoscience. And this, unfortunately for the metaphysical point of view, is a science forum. Not a pseudoscience or metaphysics one.

And yes, there is an afterlife,or hereafter, whether anyone wants to go there or not. Just don't start asking for God once you get there. It's not like once you get there, you will see Him. He's still farther beyond.

You are now speaking from some kind of authority here, seeing as the road to the 'afterlife' is a one-way ticket from whence nobody have returned to give a good eyewitness account. So - from where does your authority spring? Is it blind faith? You can't make statements such as "there is" without proof of any kind in the science world. Our gripe isn't with the 'concept' of an afterlife, our gripe is with the "there is" part, which is undeniably a leap of faith - which takes this straight out of science and hurls is slap-bang into pseudoscience and metaphysics. Besides, I think you should read our rules about statements such as these.

 

Later,

 

Boerseun

[shadow]

Science is a method. This method is clearly defined as the steps needed to be taken in order to prove theories about anything you'd care to mention that might be predictable, repeatable, falsifiable etc. And, of course, thrown into the mix should be a good dose of skepticism to separate fancy from fact. There is no need for rhetorical questions like "what is science" when the method is well understood.

 

The quantum world might be a good example of this. Yet, it's science.

 

Lust, and such unsavoury things like rape can be justified and understood in very basic Darwinistic evolutionary terms. Love, on the other hand, can be explained as familiarity and social connectedness. There's nothing mythical or mystical about 'love' in cold scientific terms, but you might not like it.

 

Not really. Read my previous line.

 

Well, shadow, I respect every new member's explaining of their viewpoint in the introductions forum, but you should keep in mind that the metaphysical is called such because it falls outside the realm of science. So, too, does pseudoscience. And this, unfortunately for the metaphysical point of view, is a science forum. Not a pseudoscience or metaphysics one.

You are now speaking from some kind of authority here, seeing as the road to the 'afterlife' is a one-way ticket from whence nobody have returned to give a good eyewitness account. So - from where does your authority spring?

Is it blind faith? You can't make statements such as "there is" without proof of any kind in the science world. Our gripe isn't with the 'concept' of an afterlife, our gripe is with the "there is" part, which is undeniably a leap of faith - which takes this straight out of science and hurls is slap-bang into pseudoscience and metaphysics. Besides, I think you should read our rules about statements such as these.

 

Later,

 

 

Boerseun

 

Dear Boerseun,

 

I know I should be writing in the Strange Claims Forum,but since Michaelangelica was being kind enough to 'listen' to a little of what I had to say here in the Introductions forum, I saw no reason to adhere to the principles of science,afterall, this is the 'lobby',isn't it?

 

Anyway.

 

And this ,I guess, is your more pressing question.

 

"So_from where does your authority spring?"

 

Well, I don't speak as though some authority has been vested in me. I only speak from experience.

 

I know I am not the first one to be sent back from the hereafter,but yes, I was sent back. And I didn't go 'there' just once. I have spent more than twenty years interacting with sprits and Spirits. And the knowledge they have shared with me has come at a very heavy price. I wasn't merely sent back to finish my life. I was sent back with the understanding that I would go through a 'death on earth' state and then if I passed some tests I would be allowed to start my 'next life' right here,right now. Sort of like reincarnation.

 

I don't have the proof yet,but I have learned many things. Things that would rattle the religionists as well as the atheists.

 

The number one question I encounter in most forums is whether there is a God.

 

I tell you this. There is a God, and there yet, there also are 'other' Gods.

 

Jehovah(Yahweh) , the Judeo-Christian god is a sovereign lord,yet, He is not alone.

 

Allah(god) is not another name for Jehovah. Allah is a separate entity,or, more exactly, a different Deity.

 

Lord Buddah(the great Buddah and not Siddharta Gautama--the little buddah)

is a third Deity. The buddhists,who by the way don't worship a personal God, are not even aware of his existence. These buddhists, they are called 'impersonalists',and for good reason. They 'worship' pure energy and to them heaven ,or Nirvana, is a state of pure awareness without form. (Crazy, but to each, his own)

 

The native Americans are a little more discerning. They call their God the 'Great Spirit'. His name is actually Lord Wakonda--a sovereign lord in his own right.

 

These four 'Gods'--the white, the black, the yellow, and the red-- are sons of the a higher Deity, the Blue One, the majestic Lord Visnu(of Hindu Trinity fame). So, it can be said that He is like the 'Grandfather'. The Grandfather to all the races. The Hindus know much about Him,but most don't know how he relates to 'our' Gods.

 

There is one God superior to Lord Visnu. The Supreme Lord. You may have heard about Krsna,or Lord Krsna. Actually, his name is Radha Krsna.

Some hindus even think that he is an avatar of Lord Visnu,but that's not so.

 

Yes, there is One God. One God responsible for the existence of all other gods. The demigods are different,but just as real. The most widely known one ,the Sun God, the one the ancient Egyptians used to consider their main god once upon a time--long before Jesus or what-have-you, is also very real,as is the venerable Lord of Death--Lord Yamaraja.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

I am in the process of writing a book. I am also working on their 'portraits'.

 

I visit the forums just to shoot the breeze.

 

By the way, I appreciate your sense of humor( Randi's challenge). I am familiar with it.

 

thank you for your time,

 

shadow

 

P.S. You can, if you like, move this to the strange claims forum. Just don't delete it til everyone has had a good 'laugh'. It's just that sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

 

later

[InfiniteNow]

Of course there is a God concept, as evidenced by discussions like this. We are discussing SOMETHING... However, claims phrased in the absolute...

 

There is...

I know...

It is this or it is that...

 

...require some supporting evidence. With spiritual concepts, obtaining such evidence or support is incredibly hard to come by and hence science tends to reject the concept itself. However, many curious searchers with an inclination toward science will search for other things, measurable things, repeatable things. They will look into the evolution of such tendencies. Into the neurobiology of thought itself. Into what brain regions are active when religious experience is had... and many others that I have not mentioned here.

 

However, when one says "This is so," with no support, a good scientist will ask for evidence or disregard your claims when you fail to provide it. Even the concept of faith can be explained using science, but it certainly is not one of it's key tenets.

[shadow]

Of course there is a God concept, as evidenced by discussions like this. We are discussing SOMETHING... However, claims phrased in the absolute...

 

There is...

I know...

It is this or it is that...

 

...require some supporting evidence.

With spiritual concepts, obtaining such evidence or support is incredibly hard to come by and hence science tends to reject the concept itself.

However, many curious searchers with an inclination toward science will search for other things, measurable things, repeatable things. They will look into the evolution of such tendencies. Into the neurobiology of thought itself. Into what brain regions are active when religious experience is had... and many others that I have not mentioned here.

 

However, when one says "This is so," with no support, a good scientist will ask for evidence or disregard your claims when you fail to provide it. Even the concept of faith can be explained using science, but it certainly is not one of it's key tenets.

 

Dear Infinite Now,

 

Thank you for your thoughts. And your time.

 

Yes, I understand what you mean. It is not very easy to prove such an outrageous claim. My intention is not to demonstrate anything to the scientists. Or to anyone,for that matter. It is of no concern to me whether anyone believes my unusual story. I have friends that believe,and friends that don't. Formal education has nothing to do with their opinions. I think it's all in each one's inner level of spiritual discernment. You either have it,or you don't. You have to have some experience with spiritual matters. Or at least be familiar with the experiences of others. Dealing with spirit,or spirits , is nothing new. It has only been reported more frequently.

 

When the first two teachers first introduced themselves as such they new I was very familiar,at least through reading about others' experiences, about the different methods spirits use to make contact with those here in this world. Still, they volunteered some unexplainable 'tricks' to prove to me that what I was experiencing wasn't all in my dreams and my mind. I 'knew' they were around,but like I said ,they ,on few occassions, showed me the superiority of spritual energy over material energy(their claims,not mine,though I accept them).

 

This happened sometime during the first month of our acquaintance.

 

I was working on a friend's car under a shady tree in front of our three story apartment one summer day( Aug.1982). I had the trunk of the car open, since I was using the tools we had on an old hubcap that we used as a tool tray. I was working on the carburator of this old Lincoln and was walking back and forth from the front of the car to the trunk to retrieve whatever tool I needed for the particular application on such engine component. When it came time to install the final lock pin on the throttle I went over to get a pair of those red-insulated electrical pliers to handle the tiny pin,since we didn't own any of those so called 'needle-nosed' pliers,which are actually more appropiate for the task. I had noticed all the while that I had been working under the hood of the car that those red wire cutters were on the tray. When I went to get them for finishing up I noticed that they were missing. I was a little surprised, since I had seen them there moments ago,but didn't think much about it and used some regular pliers. I started up the car and drove to the back of the apartment and parked it there. I went up to our own apartment three floors up. When I stepped into my room, I was mildly shocked to see that the missing tool was there on the inside of the window ledge. The screen was on,so that kinda confused me a little more. I instinctively felt what they were up to,but still I felt that it wasn't such a cheap trick. You see, they not only moved the object from the car in the street the length of the driveway and three floor levels up. You tell me, how was it possible for them to put the solid object through a wire mesh window screen without damaging the screen itself? Think about it,and don't say that maybe I imagined it all. There were other instances when they played such tricks,but that was the most strange,at least for those not used to such things.

 

Of course, I didn't record that on a camcorder or what-have-you. Either way, anyone would have suspected a hoax. At the time, I wasn't concerned with obatining proof from 'them'. I 'knew' that they were around and they meant business. The business being, they were here to inform me that my time on earth was reaching its end and that they would be helping me make the transition to the other side. I was happy. I was twenty four at the time and had had my share of partying and living. I was ready to go if that was the case. It's a long story but suffice it to say that they made good on their promise to usher me into those other realms. Thing is that some decision was made by some higher ups that I should be sent back to see if I could 'harness' a new life. They said they couldn't send me back 'for free'. They said I had to earn the right to stay for another life. It all started with a lot of fasting and all types of sacrifice. Those two teachers were nice but they made sure I would feel my 'death on earth'. They gave me hell for four years( for my own good--so as to forge the mind and the spirit). They made me change my lifestyle and learn a little bit about religion.

 

After those four years, another higher spirit took me under his wing. It was like going from a black and white world to one of color.

 

The Gods that I talk about I didn't get to talk to til about fifteen years later. It's not like I ascended to the higher levels overnight. It seemed like forever.

Fasting for years. No women for years(even in thought). No hairstyles. No shaving. No nothing. Just barely surviving and 'learning' whatever they deemed necessary for my spiritual upbringing. OF course, friends and family were concerned with my 'idleness',but I never lost my sanity or my mind. Right now,twenty four years later I am in the process of putting the final piece in the puzzle. My lifeforce I have almost back to a hundred percent. I had to build it back little by little,sacrifice by sacrifice. It's not like I have been meditating on a hammock under a couple of palm trees. Even when I started with the crash fasting,they made sure that I put in at least fifty hours of labor each week. Imagine having to go to bed without dinner for days and weeks at a time. NO breakfast for work. And no lunch to get you through the day. It was days and weeks for a few months,just to 'join their club'...

 

Spirit is there,it's just not for everyone. Normal people come into this world and live a while and then they just die and go quietly. Some, are given other challenges. I don't reccommend it to anyone. If spirit knocks on your door,it's up to you to answer to it. Or leave well alone.

 

thank you for your time,

 

shadow

 

P.S. Hey, by the way, you share your birthday with my two original teachers.

[Boerseun]

Oh, crap...

:evil::naughty::eek:;):lol::shrug::hyper::D:):hyper::hihi:

Happy Friday, by the way.

[shadow]

Oh, crap...

:evil::naughty::eek:;):lol::shrug::hyper::D:):hyper::hihi:

Happy Friday, by the way.

 

Dear Bored son,

 

Have a good day too.

 

shadow