What fear does

[paigetheoracle]

For all who wish to understand attrition in warfare and its waste of resources, may I recommend watching the film "Kagemusha" by Akira Kurosawa, while looking at George Bush's foreign policy?

 

Insularity as a policy (minding your own business) builds up resources as warmongering depletes them (sticking your nose [fears] into other peoples business). Feeling pressured into action leads to rapid draining of resources as slow release of energy isn't so draining because it's small amounts over a longer period. This is why patience and tolerance is better for you as an individual or nation and rash and violent action bad for you (anger rapidly depletes energy as patience gradually builds up resources).

 

Behind anger is fear. A foolish (frightened) man opens his mouth and closes his eyes (becomes violent), whereas a wise (patient) man opens his eyes and closes his mouth (controls his temper and looks for the truth). Fear projects itself into the world - courage examines its own heart and motives (Sees enemies everywhere, rather than realizes the true enemy is within - its own mind and the attitude it takes towards the outside world).

 

This is why Eastern Philosophy advocates patience in which to learn (build up knowledge) rather than react impatiently to what little knowledge you do have. Like the law, the principle being that the more evidence you have, the more likely you are to be right in your assumptions (Crime is rushed reactions based on the flimsiest of beliefs). When you don't believe you have time to think or build, you don't, so act in fear (ignorance) instead, destroying all forms of connection (relationships with the world and each other as human beings or life forms). Put simply, you stay and build your life as an individual or society, or panic and run, laying waste to everything around you (scorched earth policy).

[Eclogite]

It all sounds very nice, but there are issues.

Insularity as a policy (minding your own business) builds up resources as warmongering depletes them .

Insularity also allows you to ignore injustices on your own doorstep. Is this a good thing? Also, is an injustice on someone else doorstep any less of a good thing?

The quote implies that insularity is the only option to warmongering. This is not the case.

Feeling pressured into action leads to rapid draining of resources as slow release of energy isn't so draining because it's small amounts over a longer period.

Firstly, pressure may appear to be external, but is always internal. We choose to acknowledge or disregard the external environment: to act, react, or be inert.

Secondly, and quite separately, the use of resources is likely to be the same in each instance. In some instances a rapid expenditure of energy may be more appropriate. The tactics for a sprint differ from those for a marathon.

This is why patience and tolerance is better for you as an individual or nation and rash and violent action bad for you (anger rapidly depletes energy as patience gradually builds up resources).

Again, you imply that the only alternative to patience and tolerance is rash and violent action, and that rapidly applied action is by its nature rash and violent. (I concede you do not say this, but it is strongly implicit in the both the words and the sentence structure.)

Behind anger is fear.

And sometimes it is simply disgust.

This is why Eastern Philosophy advocates patience in which to learn (build up knowledge) rather than react impatiently to what little knowledge you do have.

Do you think Western Philosophy does not advocate patience? Do you think it promotes precipitate behaviour? Do you feel Western Philosophy is a hotbed of fearful and ignorant reaction?

[paigetheoracle]

It all sounds very nice, but there are issues.Insularity also allows you to ignore injustices on your own doorstep. Is this a good thing? Also, is an injustice on someone else doorstep any less of a good thing?

 

Not the way I read it (point one). No but how do you stop it and how do you know the cause of the situation (who started it and why)? If you listen to the arguments on both sides, all you hear is justification for actions but no conscience about the results or its effects on anybody, including the doer of the action (It felt good to kill him and I don't care if I get killed in response, reaction).

 

The quote implies that insularity is the only option to warmongering. This is not the case.

Firstly, pressure may appear to be external, but is always internal. We choose to acknowledge or disregard the external environment: to act, react, or be inert.

 

Of course the pressure is internal and it's down to what you want versus what you don't want

 

Secondly, and quite separately, the use of resources is likely to be the same in each instance. In some instances a rapid expenditure of energy may be more appropriate. The tactics for a sprint differ from those for a marathon.

Again, you imply that the only alternative to patience and tolerance is rash and violent action, and that rapidly applied action is by its nature rash and violent. (I concede you do not say this, but it is strongly implicit in the both the words and the sentence structure.)

 

Cold, calculated action would put a barrier between warring opponents (The UN) but would require implied threat of something worse to stop two sides fighting as with all policing methods. This doesn't mean I'm against it, quite the opposite. In martial arts in the Far East, the higher your skill, the less you have to do. A competition is like the kids game of first to blink or react to something your opponent does. This goes back to a thread I either initiated or contributed to about dominance behaviour in animals. The dominant male does nothing and needs not to, until his abilities start to fade. Young males fight with each other, vying for dominance because they don't know who is top dog amongst them but they all know who is the chief of the tribe for as long as he rules. This also applies to countries and I suggest you see Kagemusha, by Kurosawa as it displays brilliantly what happens when dominance is lost and order collapses (The heir to the title wants to prove himself and in his folly, wastes the resources built up over the years, destroying the peace and power his father had built - think of George Bush and his warmongering to make a name for himself or the present crisis in the Middle East (Palestine not necessarily Lebanon) brought about by new Israeli ministers wanting to make a name for themselves by proving they are tough rather than sensible.

 

And sometimes it is simply disgust.Do you think Western Philosophy does not advocate patience? Do you think it promotes precipitate behaviour? Do you feel Western Philosophy is a hotbed of fearful and ignorant reaction?

 

Horror (disgust) and Terror (fear) are both rejection of things as they are.

Second point - no, I don't think Western Philosophy advocates violence. All philosophy is aimed at getting people to stop and think about their actions not leap into them rashly. I personally find western philosophy is the precursor of science and doesn't approach these questions as consistently as Eastern Philosophy. By this I mean it is younger and hasn't reached a general consensus on which direction philosophy should go or why. The East is more concerned with human behaviour and the West, more with the mechanics of the universe as far as I can see. I do not see this as being good or bad, just different.

[paigetheoracle]

Life is a sequence of events. We need to sit on the fence to see and understand both sides of the argument. Those involved in a fight lose sight of the truth in their passionate unilateralism. Only the dispassionate, standing back back from the situation, can see it for what it is, which the emotionally charged (involved) always fail to see because they're too busy acting to look.

 

The wise learn - the foolish have to be taught the same lesson again and again, until the pain of their own ignorance eventually forces them to change ('People do not change until the pain of staying the same, outweighs the pain of altering' The Tao/ 'Groundhog Day').

 

War follows peace, action follows thought and demolition follows building (The old is always cleared away to make way for the new - these are the simple mechanics as far as I can see and moral stances are just words that stop nothing as far as I can see, sadly).

 

To return to my last post, where would medical science, surgical techniques and forensics be - if emotional 'repulsion' had pushed the innovators in these fields away from exploration? Can I stop the violence in The Middle East? No but at least I can control my own feelings, to stop them clouding my senses and judgement about the situation.

 

The truth is that whether we like it or not war (like prostitution) has been with us since civilization came into existence and before that personal and tribal violence: Sex and violence are part and parcel of life and we need to understand our drives to control them as condemnation is just joining in the violence, only verbally (hypocrisy in action or 'It's nothing to do with me!').

 

Prejudice talks in terms of good and bad, pro and anti (movement towards or away from in Taoism). Science deals deals with neutral facts or in philosophical terms truth (sames, similars and differents).

 

Looking at my own life I see that the sense of panic that arises in me and leads to anger and violence, comes about through a feeling of, lack of time. When we feel we have all the time in the world, we sit and dream of what we're going to do someday but when it looks like that 'someday' will never arrive, we feel stimulated into action and God help anybody who gets in our way! (The driven, no matter what the cause or form it takes, are the violence creators in the world and this is what we need to understand and deal with - poverty of mind, body and spirit).

 

Violence is understandable but never justifiable (There is no morality in war, only in peace and that comes from self-control - this includes crime, which is class warfare or addiction driven action: Think of New York in the 60's and now).