Who killed the electric Car

[apeweek]

... until we learn to generate electricity from another source, I believe making this transition to electric powered automobiles is premature. Another factor to consider is the cost of manufacturing these vehicles. At the present, it's still too expensive. And that doesn't take maintenance into the equation either. At best, I think it's a toss-up, too many unanswered questions like, what are we going to do with the pollution caused from the disposal of these spent batteries and the nasty stuff contained within them?..........Just my two cents........................Infy

 

As to the 'unanswered questions', I will try to answer them.

 

-First of all, why do we need to generate electricity from another source? I have just shown that, even using existing sources, efficiency is increased and pollution decreased. What do I not understand?

 

-The cost of manufacturing EVs: You're thinking about expensive EVs like the Tesla, but EVs do not need to be expensive. An electric motor is extremely simple, and has only one moving part. Economy of scale is what's needed to make them cheap. China is presently building large numbers of EVs, and they are indeed cheap. Here's a Chinese EV due for import next year:

 

milesautomotive.com/products_xs200.html

 

It will sell here in the US for $28500, but in China, you can be certain it sells for far less. The US importer has to pay for crash testing and certification for US roads. Once he recovers his cost, I predict this car can get VERY cheap.

 

-Maintenance costs: far, far lower for EVs. Electric motors have only one moving part, remember? No oil changes, Tune-ups, radiator flushes, mufflers, etc. The only ongoing maintenance cost used to be battery replacement. But thanks to battery advances, newer cars like the Tesla and the Chinese EVs are coming with 100,000+ mile battery packs.

 

-Pollution from spent batteries: Li-ion batteries are not an environmental hazard, according to the EPA and most local municipalities. The same can not be said for used motor oil and coolant, can it?

 

Besides, there are substantial financial incentives to recycle the expensive batteries.

[infamous]

As to the 'unanswered questions', I will try to answer them.

 

You make an interesting and intellignet case apeweek, welcome to Hypography forums my friend. It seems you have much to offer and I'm anxious to hear more............................Infy

[apeweek]

You make an interesting and intellignet case apeweek, welcome to Hypography forums my friend. It seems you have much to offer and I'm anxious to hear more............................Infy

 

Likewise. I'm liking this place so far. It can sometimes be difficult to find intelligent discussion on the internet.

[TheBigDog]

Before he retired my dad was the Director of Technical Services for Yugo America. In that position he went to a meeting in California where car companies were gathered to present their plans to CARB for reducing future emissions. The meeting he attended around 1990 had a contigent from GM making a presentation on an electric vehicle - a presentation that had been specifically requested of GM by CARB. They did the whole presentation which my dad said was fantastic. At the end of the presentation the head of CARB got up and stated his 8th grader did a better presentation in school than he had just seen from GM. And that before he would discuss an electric car with them, they needed to do an environmental impact study about the batteries. At that point the GM team walked out of the meeting.

 

Perhaps understanding the nature of this relationship will help us understand why some of the later decisions were made.

 

Bill

[apeweek]

Before he retired my dad was the Director of Technical Services for Yugo America....

Perhaps understanding the nature of this relationship will help us understand why some of the later decisions were made.

 

Bill

 

Great story. I live in the Detroit area, and talk with quite a few automotive types. I can confirm that there is a deep distrust of alternative fuel technologies among quite a few of these people. They have spent their lives engineering cars a certain way, and they don't want to have to learn anything else.

 

We just had the 'Woodward Dream Cruise' here this weekend. It's a big Detroit event, probably our equivalent of Mardi Gras. People drive their historic, classic, or unusual cars up and down Woodward Avenue all day long, while about a million people (no exaggeration, maybe more) line the sidewalks.

 

I drove my electric vehicle, and attached magnetic signs so everyone would know. The result was very polarized. I got cheers or sneers. Nothing in between.

[freeztar]

It looks as if Toyota is going to produce some PHEVs.

Toyota moves to corner the 'plug-in' market | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist

 

The article makes the claim, similar to Apeweek's claim above, that even if the electricity is supplied via coal burning, there will still be a substantial reduction in harmful emmissions.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Before he retired my dad was the Director of Technical Services for Yugo America. In that position he went to a meeting in California where car companies were gathered to present their plans to CARB for reducing future emissions. The meeting he attended around 1990 had a contigent from GM making a presentation on an electric vehicle - a presentation that had been specifically requested of GM by CARB. They did the whole presentation which my dad said was fantastic. At the end of the presentation the head of CARB got up and stated his 8th grader did a better presentation in school than he had just seen from GM. And that before he would discuss an electric car with them, they needed to do an environmental impact study about the batteries. At that point the GM team walked out of the meeting.

 

I think this meeting was discussed in "Who Killed the Electric Car." Apparently, the chairman of CARB, Allen Lloyd, was also the head of some fuel cell institute.

 

Hydrogen economy ain't gonna happen without some other advances. (Namely, mass produced CNT's I think.)

 

Do we have the time to wait, before global warming or nasty middle-east geo-politics kills us all? I actually did look into buying a Prius with a plug-in kit when I replace my current car. (I have a forty mile commute, so I'm thinking I'm gonna need my car....)

 

The Prius isn't that bad, but most of that drive is interstate, so it doesn't do me any good there. The plug-in kit is ALMOST as much as the car.

 

Too bad. I keep hoping for a light rail in my area, but my breath isn't held.

 

TFS

[Zythryn]

The Lithium batteries are much easier and friendlier to the enviornment than the previous generations Nickel batteries. So I suspect this will be less of an issue.

2009 is the year I get my first electric car (as long as Tesla's time table holds). 200 mile range is plenty for me:)

[freeztar]

Here's a good, if not a bit lengthy, article on the new electric car to be released early next year by the Norwegian-based company, Think. They have an innovative idea of using the cars as a mobile power source, where unused energy is fed back into the grid during peak hours (while an employee is at work for example).

 

Can Think's electric car revolutionize the auto industry? - August 1, 2007

[freeztar]

Nissan plans to roll-out an affordable electric car in the US and Japan by 2010!

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/business/13auto.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1210795752-ZLpZ+DoLYClCfJkBg5JJnA

[Zythryn]

This would be great to see.

While I am encouraged by the efforts of Tesla to bring an EV to the market. An EV at a price point that can be widely adopted paired with the ability to produce a large number of them quickly will do more for the environment and national security.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see GM come out with a pure EV as well. I am quite surprised they haven't dusted off the blueprints for the EV1 and updated it.

[freeztar]

This would be great to see.

While I am encouraged by the efforts of Tesla to bring an EV to the market. An EV at a price point that can be widely adopted paired with the ability to produce a large number of them quickly will do more for the environment and national security.

 

I agree, which is why I had to share the article. In a few years, there's a good chance that many people in the US will be driving these.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see GM come out with a pure EV as well. I am quite surprised they haven't dusted off the blueprints for the EV1 and updated it.

 

I seem to recall GM revealing plans to make a new one.

Searching....

 

I guess I was thinking of the Volt, which has already been brought up somewhere on Hypography.

 

This is a good interview regarding the Volt.

Chevy Volt: Where Is GM’s Electric Car? : Gas 2.0