Election results...

[Tormod]

Hey there stranger! Glad to see you around.

[IrishEyes]

Tormod,

Thanks for your answer. As usual, your insights have been enlightening. It always gives me a chance to look at things through another POV, when someone outside the US responds. I see things through the glasses that I wear everyday, and it helps to put on a different pair once in a while.

 

Much food for thought.

[IrishEyes]

Tax breaks for married couples are a joke, marriage should NOT let you pay less than your due because you've settled-down.

 

Agreed. But you also should not have to pay MORE because you've settled down. Let's talk this one through. Start up a new topic, you Canadian slacker. I've missed the heck out of you, and would like the chance to finish this one in a fresh thread.

[Freethinker]

Do you want to know who REALLY won the election?

 

Do you want to see that the ACTUAL votes are completely counted once and for all?

 

http://www.helpamericarecount.org/index.html

[Stargazer]

Ok, ok, sorry for acting in such a childish manner. It wasn't directed at IrishEyes anyway, but rather at BEAKER, who said that "we could debate it forever, but let's not cloud these concerns." I was worried that he meant that a discussion would somehow cloud his opinions in some way that I don't really understand. They're not fragile, are they...? It just felt like any criticism can be disregarded and ignored.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

who said that "we could debate it forever, but let's not cloud these concerns." ...? It just felt like any criticism can be disregarded and ignored.

We in the US understand now that questioning our (unelected) White House Resident is unPatriotic and cause for a one way trip to Gitmo.

 

Freedom does not include thought, much less speech.

 

"There ought to be limits to freedom" --George Dubya, May 1999

 

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --George Dubya, December 18, 2002

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

We in the US understand now that questioning our (unelected) White House Resident is unPatriotic and cause for a one way trip to Gitmo.

Why do you hate America so much? Why do you hate freedom? :-)

I've seen how the climate has changed over there, and it is definitely cause for concern. But you still have a democracy with something that are good-enough elections... or so you are told to believe.

 

Freedom does not include thought, much less speech.

 

"There ought to be limits to freedom" --George Dubya, May 1999

 

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --George Dubya, December 18, 2002

 

Sounds like something any other person would say in jest...

[GAHD]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Why do you hate America so much? Why do you hate freedom? :-)

I've seen how the climate has changed over there, and it is definitely cause for concern. But you still have a democracy with something that are good-enough elections... or so you are told to believe.

 

LMFAO! U.S.A.? Democracy?

 

Get your facts straight, there is no Democracy in the states.

[Aki]

Originally posted by: GAHD

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Why do you hate America so much? Why do you hate freedom? :-)

I've seen how the climate has changed over there, and it is definitely cause for concern. But you still have a democracy with something that are good-enough elections... or so you are told to believe.

 

LMFAO! U.S.A.? Democracy?

 

Get your facts straight, there is no Democracy in the states.

 

example: results from Ohio State.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: GAHD

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Why do you hate America so much? Why do you hate freedom? :-)

I've seen how the climate has changed over there, and it is definitely cause for concern. But you still have a democracy with something that are good-enough elections... or so you are told to believe.

 

LMFAO! U.S.A.? Democracy?

 

Get your facts straight, there is no Democracy in the states.

 

There is some kind of democracy, but I'm not at all covinced that it's working. It's a big mess and it's seen as a success when more than 50% of the voting population actually votes - in one of the oldest continous democracies in the world. Success is a strong word, not to mention the wrong word. Too much weird things have been reported that it makes it very difficult to trust the result.

[Aki]

Does Bush have any explanations for the things that happened in the election, such as the one in Ohio?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Originally posted by: Freethinker

We in the US understand now that questioning our (unelected) White House Resident is unPatriotic and cause for a one way trip to Gitmo.

Why do you hate America so much? Why do you hate freedom? :-)

Thanks for including the smiley. I have been accused of such with less than humorous intent.

I've seen how the climate has changed over there, and it is definitely cause for concern. But you still have a democracy with something that are good-enough elections... or so you are told to believe.

Yes the lies just ooze from the Repukes. And all showing a complete lack of knowledge of reality. Such as that the US is NOT a "Democracy". It was never set up to be one and that was intentional. The Founding Fathers realized that a true Democracy was gang rule, rule by the majority over the minority with no protections for the minorities. That is why they set up a Constitutional Representitive Republic.

 

"There ought to be limits to freedom" --George Dubya, May 1999

 

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --George Dubya, December 18, 2002

Sounds like something any other person would say in jest...

And that this was the case! Both were "unscripted" comments to specific situations. This was before Dubya's handlers had trained him enough to have him stop saying what he really meant. e.g. The first comment was based on being asked about a web site that exposed some of his real background and stances. He was stating that the Government should be able to stop people from saying what they wanted to if it made him look bad!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Aki

Does Bush have any explanations for the things that happened in the election, such as the one in Ohio?

 

Yes, he calls it his Mandate!

 

Shows how truly out of touch he is!

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Yes the lies just ooze from the Repukes. And all showing a complete lack of knowledge of reality. Such as that the US is NOT a "Democracy". It was never set up to be one and that was intentional. The Founding Fathers realized that a true Democracy was gang rule, rule by the majority over the minority with no protections for the minorities. That is why they set up a Constitutional Representitive Republic.

But it is a democracy in some way, that is you do elect your represntatives to congress and you elect the president (more or less). We live in a democracy too, as we elect our representatives, although we don't directly elect the head of government (prime minister) or the head of state (the monarch). So when is a society a democratic one?

 

 

"There ought to be limits to freedom" --George Dubya, May 1999

 

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --George Dubya, December 18, 2002

Sounds like something any other person would say in jest...

And that this was the case! Both were "unscripted" comments to specific situations. This was before Dubya's handlers had trained him enough to have him stop saying what he really meant. e.g. The first comment was based on being asked about a web site that exposed some of his real background and stances. He was stating that the Government should be able to stop people from saying what they wanted to if it made him look bad!

I'm pretty sure he meant what he said. After all, it would probably be easier with a dictatorship. Better, no. Easier, in some cases. Also his father said once that he didn't want to recognise atheists as citizens, since, as he said, "this is one nation under god". One might wonder who "hates freedom"...

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

But it is a democracy in some way, that is you do elect your represntatives to congress

That is why it is called a "REPRESENTITIVE" Republic.

So when is a society a democratic one?

In a Democracy, each person votes on each issue. That was ancient Greece. Citizens even voted on judicial issues. A super majority of citizens had to vote in favor of death for the death penalty to be applied.

and you elect the president (more or less).

Boy would that be nice?

 

Up till the last two elections at least our votes were counted and applied in some relative fashion. While the last two have been determined by how well fraud can be hidden.

Also his father said once that he didn't want to recognise atheists as citizens, since, as he said, "this is one nation under god". One might wonder who "hates freedom"...

Yes, it was a friend of mine (Rob Sherman) that asked that question to Bush Sr.

 

Yet when "Under God" is challenged, we are told it is only "celebratory deism".

 

Amazing how it is proof of it being a Christian country when they want it to be and not connected to Christianity when they don't.

 

Christians have to problem with whatever lie they need to spew at any one time.

[InfiniteNow]

Interesting thread considering it was almost two years ago that this discussion began. I imagine many of these posters haven't logged on in quite some time, but to remind everyone what the opening thrust of the thread was, that opening question:

 

(emphasis added by me)

 

I wanted to post a message about the recent election in the US. Now this is not about who won or lost. That isn't nearly as important as something else that I noticed.

 

PEOPLE SHOWED UP TO VOTE.

 

I don't mean just a few people. I mean - there were LOTS of people. I live in a small county, and I have never had to wait to vote before. On Tuesday, I waited in a line for over 30 minutes. That's nothing compared to the many places around my country that had 3,4, 8 or more hour waits.

 

As I stood there in that school gym, looking at the line that snaked around the room, all of the people standing there, quietly chatting with a neighbor or friend that they hadn't seen in a while, it just amazed me almost to the point of tears. My 7 year old son was with me, and he was asking who the people were voting for, and when I explained to him that it didn't matter, as long as they voted, it opened the door for an interesting and animated conversation with the strangers around us. Some were voting for the same person 'we' were, some were not. But at that moment, we were not separated by party lines. We were not standing on opposite sides of any issue. We were just people, standing there in line in a middle school gymnasium, waiting to cast our votes and make our voices heard, happy to be able to be a small part in the process. It was a truly unique and humbling experience.

 

As for the results... while anxiously awaiting the final tallies from many states, I heard one of the newsies talking about the Wisconsin results. Most of the precincts had been counted already, but the ones that hadn't were mostly from a major city. This major city had a small but vey dedicated group of Kerry supporters that had reached MANY people, and could very well be the reason that Kerry might take that state. Now I have to tell you, when I heard that newsie, I just got a huge grin on my face. It didn't matter which person won overall at that point. What was truly awesome was that a small group of people could make that much of a difference. WAY TO GO!!!

 

You have to vote. Simple really. Get off you lazy keester and pop a chad in the ballot. If you're not helping to solve the problem, you're part of it.

 

 

Cheers all. :cup: I raise my glass to Irish as well. Hope you're still smiling. :)