Who is Lucifer? Who is the Devil? Who is Satan?

[Spiked Blood]

In the story of Job, Satan is separate from God, but has an influence over God. In other words, God could have just consulted his own omniscience and knew what the final result was going to be. He could have avoided the whole mess with Job. But God in the old testament gives Satan a lot of influence in the affairs of earth and heaven. Job saw the distinction between God and the influence of Satan. Even with God bragging about all the crap he could do, Job knew that was Satan's influence and stuck to what he knew God really was. This changed God, since God was able to see what he was in Job's eyes.

 

It is sort of like someone believe in you and you not in yourself. But eventually you begin to see yourself through their eyes until one becomes what they really are, instead of an image of their insecurities. Satan was the source of God's insecurities.

 

I don't know what drugs you smoke, HB, but they must be top notch.

 

why do you think that his mind is closed? Trying to convince ST that his religion is wrong is just like he trying to convince you that evolution has no basis in the world. ( I am just comparing, i am not starting a discussion on evoultion) it is not that his mind is closed it is that he and you have different beliefs. And you cannot change his beliefs just as he cannot change yours.

 

You assume that I am convinced by evolution. There are few things I regard as fact. I am curious (blast this silly human disposition) and I have no wish to limit my understanding by restraining my mind.

 

I *know* this. I do not have to go to church every Sunday to worship God. I do not have to read a book to worship God. God does not make a universe so vast, make me curious, and then tell me to believe one thing, no matter what.

[HydrogenBond]

If one thinks about the evolution of God, it begins as a combination of everything such as occurs in nature. He then changes, via his interaction with his willful and imperfect human creatures into a tough SOB to force them along the right path. Job was pivotal because it set the stage for God to eventually become man, with all his weaknesses. It may not have been God evolving as much as God differentiating himself to the needs of his favorate imperfect creatures.

[Jakely Bront]

My work on this planet is done.

The son of perdition,

Garry Denke

 

If you want to have first hand information regarding "Lucifer," or "Satan," or whatever you wish to call him/it, then just start using an Ouija Board.

 

I guarantee your curiousity will be responded to, in some material way, so that you will not need to speculate in here about your imaginary ideas about him/it.

 

Go ahead, be a scientist about it. Then, get back to us.

 

Jakely.

[learnin to learn]

If you want to have first hand information regarding "Lucifer," or "Satan," or whatever you wish to call him/it, then just start using an Ouija Board.

 

I guarantee your curiousity will be responded to, in some material way, so that you will not need to speculate in here about your imaginary ideas about him/it.

 

Go ahead, be a scientist about it. Then, get back to us.

 

Jakely.

 

I am sorry, but how can one get first hand information about lucifer aka satan? is their someone on that website that is thousands of years old or something?

[Turtle]

P.S. What is the point of this thread, anyway?

 

I know! I know! Pick me! ;) The point of the thread is a veiled reference to Garry searching under the heelstone at Stonehenge for the Ark of the Covenant and that such a discovery will reveal the truth of who Lucy, Dave, and Satia are. That is all. :lol:

[learnin to learn]

I know! I know! Pick me! ;) The point of the thread is a veiled reference to Garry searching under the heelstone at Stonehenge for the Ark of the Covenant and that such a discovery will reveal the truth of who Lucy, Dave, and Satia are. That is all. :lol:

 

lol nice turtle! but i thought we were searching for the lost city of Atlantis?!?!?!?!? dang wrong thread again aye?:)

[Turtle]

lol nice turtle! but i thought we were searching for the lost city of Atlantis?!?!?!?!? dang wrong thread again aye?;)

 

No really! Go read Garry's posts here at Hypog and my discussions with him. He is getting close, and whether or not I embrace his beliefs, I do embrace his actions as genuine archaeological study. May the Schwarz be with you Garry!

[rising crescent]

this is very serious matter.

 

First,Quran say him is not angel. but genie who have angel power and present in among angels .

 

He is Our Number one enemy.

His objective is only one : destroy human!Adam,and all his childs.

 

First,He doesnt place on ground his head for Adam like all angels.

God is Anger and banished him.

 

then this genie make promise with God that he wants to makle human lost from God way.he is called "iblis"

 

iblis succeded make adam and eve out from Heaven.he succceed to broke adam and eve"s cloth!

so why we must lost to him who succeed defeat adam once times and make us suffer in this earth..

 

after this,god sent adam to earth start new life.He said that adam and all childs have eternal wars each other vs iblis and his childs (satans).

Whoever follow hints from God,will be placed into Heaven by God.If not,will be throw into hell!

[HydrogenBond]

These three characters are the same force in human nature as it evolves though time. In other words, if one went to a primative fourth world culture, the darkside would be quite narrow in affect and extent. It would probably be lumped into a unity principle of nature, i.e, Lucifer. If we go to the other extreme, there is far more distinction, polarization and far more variety of affect due to culture being much more complex, i.e., Satan, Devil.

 

The bible talks about this evolution and genesis in Genesis. When Adam was alone in the garden of Eden, all was good in the world, with Lucifer providing motivation for change, i.e., morning star. After Eve appears, things progress the same way until the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil appears in the garden. Lucifer becomes Satan and creates a departure from the natural progression of things.

 

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is connected to laws and belief systems based on good and evil. Such law programs the mind with two data grids, the good and the evil. The reason this occurs is connected to the creation of memory. Memory, when created is assigned an emotional valence. The good side of the law is assigned a good feeling and the bad side of the law is assigned a bad feeling. Depending on the emotion one feels, the data assigned will become most conscious.

 

Before the tree of knowledge of good and evil appears, there wasn't this polarization in the human memory grid. It was paradise and only a good emotional valence was assigned to the evolving memory. For example, a lion killing only feels joy for finding food. He does not judge his behavior with human morality before acting. The symbolic Satan is implicit of a secondary negative emotional assignment being assigned to certain types of behavior which gets more and more expanded as humans create more and more laws of good and evil.

 

If one looks at patholical cases, where the emotions of the person are stuck at fear, all this fear assigned data consolidation, can become the conscious memory. This consolidatio can even become personified in their psychosis. This is Satan or the Devil in a symbolic sense. If one can calm then down with talk or even drugs, and shut off the fear, that memory organization become depotentiated. If a more positive emotion can be induced, such as love, it will hook them up with the good side of the law. This data organization is often personified as Christ. This projection may still be pathological, for such people, but at least it would make them harmless.

 

In normal psychology both data consolidaitons exist side by side, as one shifts emotional valence between that assigned to good and evil. The shifting back and forth as one assess reality is often personificed as Christ and the Devil both helping and tempting one.

 

In modern culture, there has been a reassignment with respect to the emotional valence attached to traditional behavior. For example, sex is no longer attached to the darkside like culture previous had it. Essentially the darkside is now mostly violent in nature. This is focusing Satan into the Devil. In other words, Satan is connected to the fine lines between good and evil. But the Devil is personified as solid evil. This more focused personification of the darkside memory can lead to extreme unconscious compulsions from the darkside.

 

For example, 20-30 years ago there were gangs. They were often violent but killing was not as common as today. A good beating or knifing was about as far as it would go. Today, due to reassignment of evil, the darkside is darker. The gangs of today are able to go farther before they feel the same level of darkness.

[Turtle]

this is very serious matter.

 

First,Quran say him is not angel. but genie who have angel power and present in among angels .

 

He is Our Number one enemy.

His objective is only one : destroy human!Adam,and all his childs.

 

First,He doesnt place on ground his head for Adam like all angels.

God is Anger and banished him.

 

then this genie make promise with God that he wants to makle human lost from God way.he is called "iblis"

 

iblis succeded make adam and eve out from Heaven.he succceed to broke adam and eve"s cloth!

so why we must lost to him who succeed defeat adam once times and make us suffer in this earth..

 

after this,god sent adam to earth start new life.He said that adam and all childs have eternal wars each other vs iblis and his childs (satans).

Whoever follow hints from God,will be placed into Heaven by God.If not,will be throw into hell!

Hi Crescent,

This matter is both serious and not serious. What I seriously like is that you apparently know the Quran, and that is a valuable resource. So I want to ask, what does the Quran say about humor? Particularly if we consider the premise of iblis as you have described, do you think we may disarm it by humor?

Thanks for posting. :)

[rising crescent]

Hi Crescent,

This matter is both serious and not serious. What I seriously like is that you apparently know the Quran, and that is a valuable resource. So I want to ask, what does the Quran say about humor? Particularly if we consider the premise of iblis as you have described, do you think we may disarm it by humor?

Thanks for posting.

as far I know,Muhamad said that someone who have seen Torturing in Hell,have to be little laugh and much cries...

I dont see any humour in what you"re saying,because this is very serious matter,because Thats Real not in movie,anime,game,books,etc

[Turtle]

as far I know,Muhamad said that someone who have seen Torturing in Hell,have to be little laugh and much cries...

I dont see any humour in what you"re saying,because this is very serious matter,because Thats Real not in movie,anime,game,books,etc

 

Well, it is serious because Muhamad mentioned 'laughter' specifically. Does he mention it elsewhere, and if so, in what context? When does one have 'much to laugh about?'

[rising crescent]

Well, it is serious because Muhamad mentioned 'laughter' specifically. Does he mention it elsewhere, and if so, in what context? When does one have 'much to laugh about?'

When we have entered Heaven,Meet God in Friday day to see God directly,and received "Ridho"-that God NEVER WILL ANGER TO YOU AGAIN...

 

Before this,we must little laugh and much cries ...

[Turtle]

When we have entered Heaven,Meet God in Friday day to see God directly,and received "Ridho"-that God NEVER WILL ANGER TO YOU AGAIN...

 

Before this,we must little laugh and much cries ...

 

This is where I start joking. I spit in the prophets' and devils' eyes and laugh "Ha" , "ha ha!" All the macho threats are as empty as dried poo, and only fit to burn and make water for my tea. You all who quarrel on that you know what god says let alone that such exists, and yet cannot suppress a chuckle when one of you farts. Hypocrits all. Better to have tears of laughter;

In My Jocular Opinion. :hyper:

[rising crescent]

This is where I start joking. I spit in the prophets' and devils' eyes and laugh "Ha" , "ha ha!" All the macho threats are as empty as dried poo, and only fit to burn and make water for my tea. You all who quarrel on that you know what god says let alone that such exists, and yet cannot suppress a chuckle when one of you farts. Hypocrits all. Better to have tears of laughter;

In My Jocular Opinion.

from what you are saying...

 

You dont know how serious those problem .

 

I am sorry,you dont know a little what is prophet,what is devils.They have really Real Wars!. Try to get follower as much as they can,fight each other.

 

I like humour too :hyper:. but we must know,which one humour,which one real serious problem.

 

I am not hypocrit.You will see what I have said right,or wrong.:)

[Turtle]

from what you are saying...

 

You dont know how serious those problem .

From what you are hearing, you don't know yet how serious I consider the problem.

 

I am sorry,you dont know a little what is prophet,what is devils.They have really Real Wars!. Try to get follower as much as they can,fight each other.

I agree with the last 2 sentences, and you don't have a basis to yet know what I know about prophets as the first sentence implies.

 

I like humour too :). but we must know,which one humour,which one real serious problem.

I sense that you do, and agreed on differeintiating. One cannot poke fun at a serious subject unless one understands the seriousness of it.

 

I am not hypocrit.You will see what I have said right,or wrong.:)

That seems fair enough on purely secular grounds. :)

[rising crescent]

Prophets represents hints from God, satan represents lost from god.If God wants,satans cannot do it.

 

whenever prophets exist, so do satans.

 

and,"come closer to God, if not anger of god could fall into you..."