Capital Punishment: Is it right?

[Cedars]

I do not know how anyone can state the dp is not a deterrent for at least some individuals. Of course it is.

 

From the mouths of the guilty:

 

One Iowa prisoner, who escaped from a transportation van, with a number of other prisoners, stated that he made sure that the overpowered guards were not harmed, because of his fear of the death penalty in Texas. The prisoners were being transported through Texas, on their way to New Mexico, when the escape occurred. Most compelling is that he was a twice convicted murderer from a non death penalty state, Iowa. In addition, he was under the false impression that Texas had the death penalty for rape and, as a result, also protected the woman guard from assault.

 

New York Law School Professor Robert Blecker recorded his interview with a convicted murderer. The murderer robbed and killed drug dealers in Washington DC., where he was conscious that there was no death penalty. He specifically did not murder a drug dealer in Virginia because, and only because, he envisioned himself strapped in the electric chair, which he had personally seen many times while imprisoned in Virginia.

 

Senator Dianne Feinstein explained, ''I remember well in the 1960s when I was sentencing a woman convicted of robbery in the first degree and I remember looking at her commitment sheet and I saw that she carried a weapon that was unloaded into a grocery store robbery. I asked her the question: ‘Why was your gun unloaded?’ She said to me: ‘So I would not panic, kill somebody, and get the death penalty.’ That was firsthand testimony directly to me that the death penalty in place in California in the sixties was in fact a deterrent.''

 

From this website: http://www.dpinfo.com/death_penalty_as_a_deterrent.htm

 

 

The above website also quotes several sources regarding this issue, supporting the theory that the DP is a deterrant.

[Southtown]

While deterrence is a plus, Clay single-handedly convinced me that dps are too expensive, and I still think that it's just not worth the risk of killing some who might be wrongly-convicted. We all know that police corruption exists, and we know that the system is governed by distant, impotent bureaucracies. Maybe life in solitary confinement will act as a deterrent, as well. Dirt-cheap, problem-isolating deterrence. Today's prisons seem to stiffle rehabilitation specifically because they allow too much prisoner interaction.

[sebbysteiny]

I do not know how anyone can state the dp is not a deterrent for at least some individuals. Of course it is.

 

From the mouths of the guilty:

 

One Iowa prisoner, who escaped from a transportation van, with a number of other prisoners, stated that he made sure that the overpowered guards were not harmed, because of his fear of the death penalty in Texas. The prisoners were being transported through Texas, on their way to New Mexico, when the escape occurred. Most compelling is that he was a twice convicted murderer from a non death penalty state, Iowa. In addition, he was under the false impression that Texas had the death penalty for rape and, as a result, also protected the woman guard from assault.

 

New York Law School Professor Robert Blecker recorded his interview with a convicted murderer. The murderer robbed and killed drug dealers in Washington DC., where he was conscious that there was no death penalty. He specifically did not murder a drug dealer in Virginia because, and only because, he envisioned himself strapped in the electric chair, which he had personally seen many times while imprisoned in Virginia.

 

Senator Dianne Feinstein explained, ''I remember well in the 1960s when I was sentencing a woman convicted of robbery in the first degree and I remember looking at her commitment sheet and I saw that she carried a weapon that was unloaded into a grocery store robbery. I asked her the question: ‘Why was your gun unloaded?’ She said to me: ‘So I would not panic, kill somebody, and get the death penalty.’ That was firsthand testimony directly to me that the death penalty in place in California in the sixties was in fact a deterrent.''

 

From this website: http://www.dpinfo.com/death_penalty_as_a_deterrent.htm

 

 

The above website also quotes several sources regarding this issue, supporting the theory that the DP is a deterrant.

 

Damning evidence indeed Cedars. You get a qp from me. However, the three particular cases relies upon the website you have given as accurately representing evidence. I don't deny it is accurate, but we can't be sure without more research. Also, this relies on inductive reasoning. Just because you have found three particular cases in the last 40 years, it doesn't necessarily follow that all there is a widespread deterance factor today.

 

Having breafly skimmed over the link, there seemed to be quotations from a number of professors. Assuming these quotes are accurate and in context, it is not surprising that accademics exist supporting the notion that the death penalty has a deterance factor. One can always find apparent accademics supporting a whole range of things. However, some of these accademics refer to statistical research. If that research was accurately and professionally done and the correct conclusions were indeed as the professors reached, then that would be pretty conclusive evidence of a deterence factor.

 

So enough of the cold hearted analysis. I'm all with you Cedars. I think the death penalty does have a deterance factor.

[sebbysteiny]

Oh bollocks. This forum won't let me qp Cedars because 'I must spread some quality points around' more. But I havn't properly logged into this forum for almost 2 months!!! Talk about a long memory.

[sebbysteiny]

It also bothers me that people tend to think capital punishment is good to have around because its too expensive to keep criminals (In prison for instance) I'm not sure anyone has the right to decide whether this persons life, which could still go on to do good things, has to die for budgetary issues.

 

I respect your idealistic view. Unfortunately I think in today's world everything even life has budgetary issues. Old lovable innocent grannies routinely die because they, or the government, can't afford the costs of their life saving treatment. So what's it to be, the wonderful charming caring grandma dot or the first degree multiple murderer?

 

people tend to think capital punishment is good to have around because its too expensive to keep criminals (In prison for instance)

 

[the death penalty] costs 10s, 100s or even 1000s fold compared to keeping them locked up and fed....

 

So which is it? Is the death penalty a cheaper or more expensive option? Surely evidence that can sort this out one way or another can't be that hard to find.

[Mercedes Benzene]

So which is it? Is the death penalty a cheaper or more expensive option? Surely evidence that can sort this out one way or another can't be that hard to find.

 

I can tell you for a fact that lethal injection is extremely cheap. I'll even provide you with the chemicals used per death, and the cost of each.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Oh, I also forgot to mention that death is a one-time thing... obviously.

With a prisoner, you have to keep paying for them daily... for 5, 10, 20, 50, or more years.

That's a waste of money in my opinion.

[C1ay]

I do not know how anyone can state the dp is not a deterrent for at least some individuals.

There's a few but the vast majority of would be killers are not vividly aware of the consequences of their actions....

[C1ay]

I can tell you for a fact that lethal injection is extremely cheap. I'll even provide you with the chemicals used per death, and the cost of each.

Please tell us just how cheap it is for the taxpayers to pay for both the prosecution and defense of 10 years plus in the appeals process to actually get a killer to the lethal injection chamber. I think you'll find that it's not as cheap as you think....

[sebbysteiny]

Please tell us just how cheap it is for the taxpayers to pay for both the prosecution and defense of 10 years plus in the appeals process to actually get a killer to the lethal injection chamber. I think you'll find that it's not as cheap as you think....

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't life sentences also require taxpayers to pay for both the prosecution and defence plus years in the appeals proces?

 

And isn't the costs of a life sentence significantly greater than the cost of a single small room, iron gates and a life time supply of Walmart economy food?

 

Lets have numbers people.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't life sentences also require taxpayers to pay for both the prosecution and defence plus years in the appeals proces?

 

And isn't the costs of a life sentence significantly greater than the cost of a single small room, iron gates and a life time supply of Walmart economy food?

 

Lets have numbers people.

 

I think maybe we just need to let prisoners rot.

They don't need anything fancy. We even give some of them bloody televisions!

If someone is convicted of murder, then they should either die or be put into a small cell with bread, water, and a daily vitamin.

They don't need fancy sheets and cafeteria food.

That'll save us a lot of money.

[Cedars]

I don't deny it is accurate, but we can't be sure without more research. Just because you have found three particular cases in the last 40 years, it doesn't necessarily follow that all there is a widespread deterance factor today.

 

Having breafly skimmed over the link, there seemed to be quotations from a number of professors. Assuming these quotes are accurate and in context, it is not surprising that accademics exist supporting the notion that the death penalty has a deterance factor. However, some of these accademics refer to statistical research.

 

I found many links via a google search "death penalty as a deterrent". I posted that one link because it listed its sources for nearly every assertation it made.

 

There's a few but the vast majority of would be killers are not vividly aware of the consequences of their actions....

 

 

And you know this because ...?

[C1ay]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't life sentences also require taxpayers to pay for both the prosecution and defence plus years in the appeals proces?

 

And isn't the costs of a life sentence significantly greater than the cost of a single small room, iron gates and a life time supply of Walmart economy food?

 

Lets have numbers people.

Yes but there are a number of mandatory appeals required by the system in death penalty cases that are not required in life sentence cases. It is not uncommon for death penalty costs to exceed a $1,000,000.....

[Cedars]

Some have indicated the cost of a death penalty case as part of the motivation for their decision in pro/against position.

 

Part of the reason it is expensive, is the process itself requires automatic appeal at taxpayer expense where other cases that do not result in the dp being given do not have automatic appeals. If your sentenced and your defense was provided by the state (public defender) then you are still entitled to that state given defence in the appeal process, when its a non-dp sentence.

 

Many defendants do not qualify for state aid in their defence and therefore do not qualify for taxpayer funded appeals (non-dp cases).

 

I think its a good thing to have automatic appeals and such for dp cases to try to ensure those who are put to death have been given every opportunity to defend themselves.

[sebbysteiny]

$ Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy

In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:

 

The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

 

The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).

 

The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.

 

The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

 

Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.

 

(Performance Audit Report: Costs Incurred for Death Penalty Cases: A K-GOAL Audit of the Department of Corrections) Read DPIC's Summary of the Kansas Cost Report.

 

I'm happy to conclude that dealth penalty cases are more expensive than non-death penalty cases by something similar to 60-80% on average (not median) amounting to approximately $400,000 - $600,000 extra costs on the tax payer per case on average.

 

Having said that, the report also concluded,

 

“actual cost figures for death penalty and non-death penalty cases in Kansas don’t exist,” and that there were numerous limitations on the cost estimates made.

 

Nevertheless, I do not doubt that reliable estimates of the above information could have been found.

 

So, unless the pro death penalty guys wish to add any better evidence, shall we all accept that the dealth penalty is significantly more expensive than a life sentence?

[Southtown]

ay

[Mercedes Benzene]

So it would seem that the legal costs for death penalty is significantly higher.

My mistake. I was simply thinking of the actual cost to put someone to death.

Does anyone know the mean amount of time a convict waits on death row?

I would just like to compare that time to the average non-deathrow inmate.