Children

[Surattius]

What an interesting topic. I had my children late so that I had all the mixed-blessing freedom I wanted when I was young, and I have money enough to look after them now. And I never thought I would have children when I was young ( note to the 16 year olds).

 

I have one comment and one argument to make. The comment is that having and raising children is the best and hardest job in the world, and is what I consider the best thing I have ever done with my energy and money.

 

The argument is about population, which is a matter I think a lot about because I like clean air and empty spaces. I have concluded that population will top out at some level because of the rate of increase decreasing, but that we will all have less of everything: space, food, water and time. The world will become increasingly administrative and there will be two worlds, the 'below the line' world where the homeless already dwell, and the world of form-fillers and tax filers among us. The underworld will be susceptible to disease but will continue to increase as those stressed by overcrowding or paperwork drop out (this has already happened, hasn't it?).

 

Will some critical point be reached? Revolution and destruction of the upper world? Plague (tuberculosis is back, and this time it's got defences)? Infertility and mutation caused by our own pool of pollution that we sit in and continue to create more of? Or will we upper world people just cope and fill out forms and pay enormous taxes and watch poor people sleeping in the stairwells for the next hundred years?

 

I don't know. I have my children and they've got something wrong with them and I've sworn to fix it, so my battle is set out for me and I'm not going to be saving the world any time soon. However I can teach my boys to be kind and thoughtful and unsatisfied with any world in which everyone isn't happy, and like me they can think and persuade and fight to make things better.

 

One caveat to those of you too smart or idealistic to have children: If we thinkers and curious and questioners don't have children, we are leaving the world to the children who play in beer bottle yards and torture cats for fun, and who don't know any better than the lives their families have. Is that the human legacy we want to leave?

[Michaelangelica]

 

I have one comment and one argument to make. The comment is that having and raising children is the best and hardest job in the world, and is what I consider the best thing I have ever done with my energy and money.

 

 

Will some critical point be reached? Revolution and destruction of the upper world? Plague (tuberculosis is back, a

 

I agree with above except i think you should have kids when young and stupid and don't know what you are getting yourself into.

 

I am puzzled the apocalypse, Amageddon, is not in the protestant bible is it?

Only the Catholic one??

So why do a third of the "prodo" Yanks believe that the apocalypse, Amageddon, will happen in the next 20 years?

 

If often come up in discussions.

 

PS

(had to go shopping)

Many men, myself included, see their Job/occupation/career- rather than their kids- as the most important thing/job in their lives

[TheBigDog]

While your chart is a pretty one, Bill, it fails to take into account all variables which truly matter. A single medical advance, for example, could change it all.

 

Curing cancer,

It already accounts for the curing of disease. We have been extending the human lifespan through advancements in safety, medicine and nutrition for the past 50 years, yet the raw numbers shown by Mike indicate a decrease in the world population growth rate. As we continue to cure diseases people will feel less need to have a bazillion children. They will have less children and focus more energy on them, as is demonstrated as the trend in every developed nation (there are some localized exceptions to this, but they are not enough to reverse the trend).

 

World human population will eventually reach an equilibrium with the earths resources, and the beauty of the inherent engineering of man/society will prove the skeptics of man to be wrong.

 

Bill

[TheBigDog]

Here is another view of the data supplied by Mike...

 

Year    Pop     Increase
1950	2.55	
1955	2.8	10%
1960	3	7%
1965	3.3	10%
1970	3.7	12%
1975	4	8%
1980	4.5	13%
1985	4.85	8%
1990	5.3	9%
1995	5.7	8%
2000	6.1	7%
2005	6.45	6%
2010	6.8	5%

[Lancaster]

Sometimes I seriously think that we should consider restrictions on child birth. I think 4 children is enough for anyone. I don't believe we've reached that point yet, but it will come.

[Dr.Argo(ChemicalScientist]

i am 12 years old lmao if i had kids i would have to be living in whales not the usa :computerkeys:

[Michaelangelica]

i am 12 years old lmao if i had kids i would have to be living in whales not the usa :hihi:

What do you think about the idea of having children of your own when you are older?

[Pyrotex]

...I am puzzled the apocalypse, Amageddon, is not in the protestant bible is it? Only the Catholic one??

So why do a third of the "prodo" Yanks believe that the apocalypse, Amageddon, will happen in the next 20 years?...

Well, if you read Revelations as the "apocalypse" book, then both the protestants and the catholics have it.

 

One third of Yanks are just crazy, that's all. They (we) are raised in a red-neck society that looks down on education and knowledge. They (we) are raised to resent those that extend knowledge, technology, science, the arts, and to suspect that there is something terribly "wrong" about that kind of people. American culture now feeds on a subconscious desire to "punish" those that "put themselves up on pedestals" (as they would say). It galls them to see non-religious or only slightly religious people succeed in life and have so much influence. So, the idea of a godly revenge that will reward the simple-minded and uneducated and smite the "know-it-alls" has gained huge popularity.

 

It's all just so bizarre and irrational. But there appears nothing around that can stop it. Mob mentality. The Inquisition, Mark II. It's only going to get worse, before it can get any better. And if we ever get one of them "real" christians in the White House (like Pat Robertson), then say your prayers and run for the hills. It's gonna be Ouch Time.

[maikeru]

Many people used to have big families as a social security measure.

Your children would look after you when you were old. Child mortality was also much higher. It must be hard for the Chinese to have one ("Little Emperors" apparently) and not be that sure that the government will feed them in their old age.

 

I can understand the reasoning for this. It was for that same reason that my mother's family had 6 children. In mainland China, it's a strong push for mainly boys, because they'll take care of their parents. In Taiwan (where my mother is from), I am told it's different now and girls are favored, which may seem odd in comparison to other Asian countries.

 

Of course religion and poor contraception also encouraged larger families in the past.

My Irish grandmother was one of thirteen. Her 6 brothers were killed (by the British? or Germans?) in WW1. Her six sisters died of bird flu after the war. She came to Australia leaving her mother behind. She always pined to go back. She had six children

I have two, grown up (?) children. Affording their continuing education has been the biggest $ cost. Most kids left school when they were 15 when I was growing up. Now they are still doing degrees at 25.

 

Understandable. I am one of those kids still working on my degree a little later than I should. :confused: That must've been very hard for your grandmother. I can't think how bad that would be to have lost so many siblings.

 

My American relatives had more children because it was strongly encouraged by their religious beliefs and statements made by various Mormon church leaders. Well-worn phrases such as "raising up righteous seed to the Lord" are joked about in our family. I never understood the reasoning, if there is any divinely mandated or rational or otherwise, why one should have so many children as to become destitute and dependent on government welfare for life. It is also a problem among some polygamists out here. Tom Green for a famous example.

 

My cousin has 10 kids, she is a great mum and it is a happy family. She manages well.

 

I'm glad to hear that. I wouldn't doubt that many people can have a lot of children and manage well. It's unfortunate that some can't, and I think people would do well to think about how many children they can support and not just financially speaking. Love, time, concern, and education are important factors as well.

 

I don't agree with governments like Australia and Japan encouraging more births with $$s. I think it is racist. If you need more people import some hungry ones from Africa.

 

I won't go into this, as it'll take the thread off course, but I will say we have some similar concerns in the US with declining birthrates overall and influx of immigrants.

[Loricybin]

it is so weird when you're barely out of high school and your friends start having children.

 

i mean, i'm happy for them, and the children in question are absolute jewels, but woah.

 

strange.

[Back2Reality]

I have four son's. Ages 17, 15, 9 and 3. My wife and I cannot have any more kids. I guess we could adopt more at some point though. Raising kids is the highest responsibility in life. And in my opinion it brings the greatest joys.

 

Bill

 

You are very right. I have kids too (a shocking amount so I am embarassed to tell). My one sibling is married to a woman who will never have kids, so I am making up for that. My mother's only sibling likewise never reproduced. There are more dogs in the US than children. :)

[TheBigDog]

You are very right. I have kids too (a shocking amount so I am embarassed to tell). My one sibling is married to a woman who will never have kids, so I am making up for that. My mother's only sibling likewise never reproduced. There are more dogs in the US than children. :)

Don't be shy, Back2Reality, tell us about your brood little ones.

 

My story is updated a bit. All of the kids have had a birthday since the last post I made in this thread. This was the first year that I could not get a child tax credit on my oldest (a milestone), and with him enliting in the Army this summer, this is the last year I will be able to claim him as a dependent (partial year). Now the bum is putting off getting his driver's license, and I am his chauffeur to and from work for more months that I should have to.

 

The progression of growth in the kids is amazing to observe. Nobody with a curious mind should rob themselves of the experience.

 

Bill

[Buffy]

The progression of growth in the kids is amazing to observe. Nobody with a curious mind should rob themselves of the experience.

I agree with this sentiment 100%! Having a kid is the best thing I've ever done.

 

Unfortunately of course, there are many who are incurious, and many who should not have them. I don't think its a problem if the rest of us who are good at it make up some of the deficit. :)

 

Kids'RUs,

Buffy

[CraigD]

Now the bum [TBD’s oldest child] is putting off getting his driver's license, and I am his chauffeur to and from work for more months that I should have to.

I’ve become acquainted with the 22-year-old only child of a long-time friend and colleague who returned last year from a stint in the US Army.

 

To my surprise, he hasn’t yet gotten a diver’s license. As he was a theatre air defense specialist, and most Army theatre air defense systems are driven around on big trucks or armored vehicles, I assumed he’d been trained to drive everything from a HWWMV to an M1 tank, but learned that, specialists being as specialized as they are, he’d been trained only in assembling, troubleshooting, and operating integrated radar and fire control systems. As it turns out, theatre air defense is one of the safest and least exciting jobs of the war, involving stationing in remote places along the Iraq border to repel air invasions that have yet to occur, and likely will not as long as the US military remains in large numbers in Iraq.

 

He and several other young veterans returning to my extended neighborhood are repeatedly impressing on me that, despite some of them having had experiences beyond most of the people I know (eg: killing people), they are still very similar to non-veterans their age (such as my 23 and 24-year-old). Most of them are unmarried, looking for a job (that, despite their military training, most often turns out to be low-paying one in a non-technical service business), going to or considering college, and living again in their parents’ homes. Although I see nothing wrong with this, its very normalcy and lack of dramatic surprises and slightly disconcerts me.

[swampfox]

I have two daughters, born in 2000 and 2003. :)

 

Good for you Tormod! Know what's more precious in a man's life than a diamond in the sand? Really tough being a girl you know. Once I went to see Mary Pipher give a talk. Where were all the dads I wondered . . . bring them one day if you have a chance.:) maybe even read her book,"Reviving Ophelia". It's a tougher read later.

[TheBigDog]

To my surprise, he hasn’t yet gotten a diver’s license.

I am pleased that Garrett's recruiter is pressuring him to get his license before he gets in. He is enlisting for special forces, which is very competitive to get into, so skills like driving need to be established ahead of time. If he doesn't make the grade in special forces training he will end up in the 82nd Airborn Div. He is excited about joining up, which is probably a good topic for another thread.

 

Bill