The 2012 Prophecies

[C1ay]

The date 2012 is famous as in very well known for being the the Mayan prophecy for a new era. You can nit pick that if you want, but...

 

Coincidence. The title question DOES NOT ask anything about what the Mayan prophecy for 2012 predicts. That's not a nit pick, it's a fact.

[Pyrotex]

...If you have any interest in the 2012 prophecy and "Q" as the Mayan Avatar, (other than peanut gallery ridicule from ignorance, as above) check out the book...

Is it a case of "ignorance" to dismiss a prophecy?

Or rather a case of "gullibility" to believe in it?

 

There actually is no 2012 "prophecy" made by the Mayans. It never existed.

 

It was fabricated from a few bits and scraps of Mayan lore, for the purpose of selling books to the paranormal addicts, the reality rejectors, and the supernormal devotees with subnormal educations. When they get tired of UFOs and Atlantis, just conjure up "prophecies" from...oh, say, a 16th century poet, Egyptian hieroglyphs, various "mystic" religious wackos, ancient scriptures (especially from dead cultures), assorted folks with schitzophrenic disorders, or... the Mayans! Yeah! We haven't used the Mayans before! This'll sell like hotcakes!

 

Like all the rest of the paranormal, supernormal, alien, mystical body of "literature" (I use that word advisedly) -- this Mayan fad will fade away when the novelty dies, and be replaced by something new, or by something that was popular several generations ago, but is "new" to today's generation of mental lightweights for whom the real world is too mundane to appreciate.

[Michael Mooney]

Pyrotex:

There actually is no 2012 "prophecy" made by the Mayans. It never existed.

 

I could compile an impressive list of Mayan historical documents and half a dozen codexes (or codeces if you prefer) which put the lie to your above ridiculous statement.**

 

The footnotes in my chapter mentioned above on the Mayan prophecy would be a good start....

 

I didn't "write the book" on Mayan prophecy, but my chapter on it has substantial material to support its existence ... up to and including the 2012 date.

So your credentials as a Mayan historian are...?

 

(** But I don't think your attitude is worth the trouble, Hypography Honcho or not.)

Michael

[RCP/CRT/RRT]

Michael, so you then believe in their God Quetzalcoatl? How about Ra our other Egyptian deities/Gods? Or just anything "mythical" in nature? Dog headed Gods, feathered serpents and the likes?

[Moontanman]

Whoa! A Polytheist is among us?

[Pyrotex]

Pyrotex:

I could compile an impressive list of Mayan historical documents and half a dozen codexes...

 

Michael,

I do not believe you. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

There aren't that many complete Mayan codexes in existence, as the Spaniards burned all they could find.

This entire Mayan 2012 scare is based on ONE fact: the biggest and most complete Mayan "wheel" calendar that we have found only goes as far as 2012 CE.

That's it!!!

End of data!!!

 

But gee, don't nearly ALL calendars, from whoever, extend only just so far?

The calendar on my wall (showing Hubble photographs) extends only as far as December 31, 2009.

 

WOW! Do you suppose this is a prophecy of the END OF THE WORLD in 2010?????

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

:rolleyes: :hyper: ;)

[modest]

The long count ends on Dec. 21, 2012? That's a solstice. That seems incredibly odd to me. Solstices are not separated by whole numbers of days. How could the Mayans create a calender more than 1,000 years ago knowing it would end on a solstice in our time? I can't even imagine how that would be possible.

 

That's slightly eerie.

 

Let's see... if they made the calendar 1,000 years ago and needed it to end on a solstice then they'd need to know the length of a solar year to.... about a minute. Is that possible? It's more accurate than the Julian calendar.

 

Are we sure the long count ends on that day? When was the long count added to the mesoamerican calendar?

 

It seems a little too serendipitous for the greatest day of renewal in the calendar to be on a winter solstice—which is clearly the greatest symbolic day of renewal of the year. Hummm...

 

~modest

[Pyrotex]

...It seems a little too serendipitous for the greatest day of renewal in the calendar to be on a winter solstice—which is clearly the greatest symbolic day of renewal of the year. Hummm...

What about the summer solstice?

That's just as symolic of renewal.

Or how about the two equinoxes?

Having the Sun cross the equator is just as symbolic IMO.

And "how close" to a solstice or equinox does a calendar have to be before folks reject coincidence? One day? A week?

 

With 4 symbolic events per year, I suspect that any termination date within a week of any of them would have been jumped on by the paranormalists as just "too serendipitous".

 

That's 8 weeks out of 52, giving odds of only 6.5 to 1.

 

Posh and tittle. :rolleyes:

[modest]

I suspect that any termination date within a week of any of them would have been jumped on by the paranormalists as just "too serendipitous".

 

A paranormalists didn't jump on that—I did. I have no idea what paranormalists say about this. I honestly don't care to know. I simply saw the date, recognized it as a solstice, and started thinking about how hard it would be to purposefully accomplish such a thing a thousand years in advance. There are ancient cultures which I think could have done it—India and China. By the invention of the Gregorian calendar, Europe could clearly accomplish such a thing. But, Mesoamerican culture? That would really surprise me.

 

You make a good point that there are other significant dates on a calendar which could look serendipitous. Don't get me wrong, to properly judge their intentions or abilities we would need a codex of solstices with dates after the fall of mesoamerican civilization. I seriously doubt such a thing exists.

 

So... we may never know if it is coincidence or purposeful.

 

That's 8 weeks out of 52, giving odds of only 6.5 to 1.

 

No, it's accurate to a day (as far as I know). That's 4/365.

 

~modest

[C1ay]

I could compile an impressive list of Mayan historical documents and half a dozen codexes (or codeces if you prefer) which put the lie to your above ridiculous statement.

 

Please do. I would be real interested to someone produce half a dozen Mayan codices and I'm pretty sure the rest of the scientific community would feel the same.

[Michael Mooney]

Pyrotex:

"There actually is no 2012 "prophecy" made by the Mayans. It never existed."

 

Me: "I could compile an impressive list of Mayan historical documents and half a dozen codices..."

You:

I do not believe you. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

There aren't that many complete Mayan codexes in existence, as the Spaniards burned all they could find.

This entire Mayan 2012 scare is based on ONE fact: the biggest and most complete Mayan "wheel" calendar that we have found only goes as far as 2012 CE.

That's it!!!

End of data!!!

 

Google "Mayan Calendar Predictions": 297,000 pages.

Google "Mayan Prophecies": 401,000 pages

(with a lot of overlap, of course.)

 

Mayan Codices: The four best known: Dresden, Madrid, Paris, Grolier. OK, I was two short, but I claim "spill-over" because

I also studied "Aztec codices" as historical background for Mayan prophecy. Here is a mix of many with Mayan prophecy references:

 

The Borgia group: Laud, Vaticano, Cospi, Fegervary-Mayer.

 

Assorted others: Aubin, Ixtlilxochitl, Telleriano-Remensis, Vindobonensis, Xoiotl, Azcatitlan, Magliabechiano, Boturini, Borbonicus, Cozcatzin,Mendoza, Florentine, Osuna, Libellus de Medicinalibus Indorum Herbis.

 

This does not exhaust the list and doesn't even scratch the surface of prophetic decoding of Mayan temple pictographs, particularly in the temple at Palenque.

Michael

[modest]

Moderation Note: I've moved the preceding 24 posts dealing with the 2012 prophecy into this preexisting thread because there was some concern expressed as to their specific relevance in the previous thread: 20768

[Theory5]

So somebody finds out the mayan calender ends, and they assume the world will end? Maybe the calender ends because the Mayans are not around the renew the calender? There is no evidence of the world ending, and people don't have evidence to back it up.

By the way, this reminded me of the book I am currently reading called "Idiot America". Its all about this kind of stuff. Good book.

 

And just like with 06-06-06 I like to point out that a long time ago there was the year 666, and the world didn't end!

[Michael Mooney]

Michael, so you then believe in their God Quetzalcoatl? How about Ra our other Egyptian deities/Gods? Or just anything "mythical" in nature? Dog headed Gods, feathered serpents and the likes?

 

I don't "believe" anything. Really. What's the point? One knows what one knows and doesn't know the rest. What is belief but hope that something is true without enough evidence to call it knowing?

 

I did extensive research on the Mayan prophecy (Yes, Pyrotex, there is one!) for my book on prophecy, including chapters on the Mayan and Hopi, with the majority f it on the Egyptian, as coded into the Great Pyramid prophecy... no belief in deities in any of it for my part.

 

Whether or not the three of them "come true" will be verified or falsified in the transitional (if they are true) three years, 2011, 2012, and 2013 (into early 2014.)

As I said, if the outcome is still debatable I'll concede. Global awakening (from egocentric/ethnocentric consciousness must be

The Big Event, as I described early in the other 2012 thread, must be a general awakening or it will have been falsified.

 

This feeding frenzie of sharks eating mystics and prophets will, no doubt, continue until the self righteousness of scientific materialism as the one and only valid worldview, gets over it upon awakening from "egos dream."

 

I still think that Shearer's book on the subject, as above, is the best.

 

Michael

[Turtle]

A paranormalists didn't jump on that—I did. I have no idea what paranormalists say about this. I honestly don't care to know. I simply saw the date, recognized it as a solstice, and started thinking about how hard it would be to purposefully accomplish such a thing a thousand years in advance. There are ancient cultures which I think could have done it—India and China. By the invention of the Gregorian calendar, Europe could clearly accomplish such a thing. But, Mesoamerican culture? That would really surprise me.

 

You make a good point that there are other significant dates on a calendar which could look serendipitous. Don't get me wrong, to properly judge their intentions or abilities we would need a codex of solstices with dates after the fall of mesoamerican civilization. I seriously doubt such a thing exists.

 

So... we may never know if it is coincidence or purposeful.

 

~modest

 

this solstice business is interesting and some posts of craig's not only make it more so, but clearly show that the mayan calendar does not end. getting to those in a minute, all this talk of translating mayan strikes me as suspect given the timeline of the language translation ability.

NOVA | Cracking the Maya Code | Decode Stela 3 | PBS

Time Line of Decipherment

When the Spanish conquered the Maya empire in the 16th century, they forced their new subjects to convert to Christianity and speak and write in Spanish. But long before the Maya used the Roman alphabet, they had created their own rich and elegant script, featuring more than 800 hieroglyphs. Sadly, the glyphs' meanings were lost in the decades following the Conquest. Ever since, scholars have struggled to decode these symbols, pronounce the words they form, and understand the stories they tell. In this time line, follow the centuries-long decipherment, which has only recently reached the point where scholars can read more than 90 percent of the glyphs.—

 

onward then.

 

>>>

The Mayan’s and Other pre-conquest Mesoamerican cultures had a lot of calendars, but the one usually referred to in this context is the Long Count calendar. It’s believed to have been used at least as early as Dec 12, 36 BC (7.16.3.2.13 LC). LC dates are simply positional numbers, with each position a digit from 0 to 19, except the 2nd least significant position, which is from 0 to 17.

 

There LC calendar doesn’t run out of dates on Dec 21, 2012, but rather just increments its most significant digit to advance from 12.19.19.17.19 to 13.0.0.0.0. So Jan 1, 2013 is 13.0.0.0.11. The last time this happened was 12.0.0.0.0 LC, which is believed (with some uncertainty, as noted in my previous post) to correspond to Sep 18, 1618. While there may have been some wild partying and something like millennial madness around that date, it’s fairly clear Mesoamericans knew the world didn’t end every time the LC date rolled over its most significant digit. The LC won’t run out of digits until July 11, 4378, and even then, there’s no reason it couldn’t just gain another digit to advance from 19.19.19.17.19 to 1.0.0.0.0.0.

 

if the correspondence to september 18, 1618 holds, it sounds like an equinox, not a solstice, to me. orby mentioned early on here that the calendar is based on lunar cycles, and isn't the jewish/muslim calendar also? is that an acurracy factor do you suppose modest et al?

 

i predict that on 12/21/2012 mickey malarky will blow bass ackwards through the crack in the world. :)

[Moontanman]

Michael, what good does it do to make these claims if you cannot back them up with any real world evidence? Much like the book of revelations in the New Testament you, like anyone else, can sit around and make all sorts of claims about what it means or even if it means anything. Everyone who makes these claims has done "extensive research", spent hundreds of not thousands of man hours figuring out the "truth". I can do it , you can do it any one can do it, no one can really show any evidence to the contrary. What makes your dreams/visions any better than mine or any one else's? I see stuff like this from every nut job and crack pot on the net. There are more of these prophecies than there are gods and religious texts to base them on. Any one can have a special no **** honest to god take on them. Does this mean they are all poppy cock? No way to tell since they haven't ran to the appointed time yet. Funny how they all keep being set forward of today, but does this mean they are true? No it doesn't it just means you have your own personal dreams, fantasies, visions and reasons for wanting to sell a book and make money.... Just like all the rest, why should we give you any more credence than any other prophet? i am not saying you are wrong or right just that you are no better than any of the others. What makes you so special?

[Michael Mooney]

Turtle:

i predict that on 12/21/2012 mickey malarky will blow bass ackwards through the crack in the world.

 

When/where did you get programed to believe that name calling and insults add to the cogency of an argument?

 

On second thought, I'm really not interested.

 

If you wake up to the realization that we are One Global Family in which Love prevails as the "Tree of Life blossoms with a fruit never before known (globally)" in late 2012... I will be glad to accept your apology.

Otherwise we can all continue to make the world a living hell of animosity, and humanity on earth can abandon all hope for any higher ideals. You, and all the other bashers here are collectively part of the problem, not the solution.

 

M